Rewind. We don't agree. ASF makes a good point concerning growth as a focus and goal. This is not my focus or goal. No, not war either. No, not crowns. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
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Rewind. We don't agree. ASF makes a good point concerning growth as a focus and goal. This is not my focus or goal. No, not war either. No, not crowns. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
I'm not in that kingdom any more, and they haven't been top 10 anything except for a brief stint in top 10 honor/warring.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
And as far as the original topic, how do AMA and BB ruin the game? Imo it's the kingdoms that refuse to grow that disrupt the game's ecology that ruin the game, leaving only a few competent growth kingdoms to win the top and those kingdoms would eventually be bigger, thus breaking range from the ghettos as always. If more people were willing to play the game rationally, there would eventually be more kingdoms competing at the top, and stagnation would set in later.
I agree with you rofl, the game is kinda broken when 90% of kingdoms don't want to take on land.
It's not even about taking land for keeps, it's about improving the long-term viability of your kingdom, under the assumption that your kingdom does not totally suck. By YR2 or YR3, kingdoms can go back to avoiding land like the plague, or only take in land to put themselves into position to war. The end result is that there is a more natural progression on nw charts, instead of having 5-10 kingdoms and everyone else around the same small size.
Eventually, any kingdom that wins a lot of wars at the small tier will have to grow, the way mechanics work now assure that.
So if 90% of the kingdoms do not want to grow, maybe look at why that is. I am certain a large part of it is because of the CF nonsense that goes on in the top.
I am sure players in the "ghetto end" read the threads about top KDs *****ing at each other and think "why the **** would we deal with that".
They dont need to do CFs and Deal with it. You can play with 2-3 CFs max. Im sure in WW range if you have honor or WWs you have some CF with KDs around you too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Runefire
CR hasnt had much in the way of CFs this age and they are doing ok so far... just means you don't get much of a rest runefire :p
AMA was pretty reasonable when they farmed us out early age. Those elaborate CF terms are mostly between kingdoms that pose serious threat to each other... most growth kingdoms don't want protracted hostiles with ghettos when there's a server full of targets.
I'm saying that for most kingdoms, early growth for the first two weeks of the game, and letting province size stabilize naturally as a result of competition, is better than stalling at 400 acres. The former is a pretty good chance to come out with better books and wpa after two weeks, the latter is a 100% chance of not having those things; and if other kingdoms don't want free books and wpa, that's just an advantage you should have later on, without spending as much time pumping for it. The key is to grow out smart and use that growth to build up the right things, rather than rushing for acres for the sake of having acres - that just leads to being farmed out quickly (and we wouldn't have been farmed as badly or grown as big as we did if some people didn't screw up their protection, my ghetto made tons of mistakes.)
The cost of exploring 100-200 acres once oop breaks winds up being less in lost troops than attacking for the same acres, and there is no reason why an attacker can't landgrab (or retal, or plunder) on top of that. The extra econ from exploring (which i hope to god you're turning into elites and thieves and acres for guilds) usually winds up being better than 500-1000 extra specs/thieves/elites in the long term, since the exploration starts paying off immediately whereas landgrabbed acres have a 10-16 hour delay (and burn troops anyway in the process - along with the lost opportunity cost of being unable to retaliate or plunder something). That could be the only exploration a kingdom does, and it would still change the server dynamics dramatically... most certainly it's a profit for the kingdom in almost every situation, as even if the kingdom is waved oop the explored acres make up for economic losses...
will do ;) and we had no money by oop, everyone maxed their science and was running 40% schoools. No one had over 100k gc at any time, and learns cost us less than 500 books. we ate like 4-5 hits for minimal acres lost. when you dont care about acres u dont care if u get hit :PQuote:
Originally Posted by noobium
edit
If they really wanted to do that then u have to make growing/catching up easy. Science would be buy able in terms of bpa and not points, WW bonus would give not only free science but free land and wpa. The amount of free wpa would be based on how much land u got, ie im 6 wpa i get 200 acres the WW gives me 1200 wizzards.Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam
How much land u get would need to be based on your kd size relative to max kd size. i.e. im 20k acres the largest kd is 100k acres i win, i end up at (20+100)/2=60k acres + the acre or honor bonus choice. Now boom every kd that wins a war instantly get scaled up towards the top and the top has to constantly struggle to pull away.
extreme sci at 300 acres or intensive at 750-800, hmm...
yea well the problem is if we stalled at 400 acres and pumped we'd never find a kd willing to war us untill they caught up in pumping...like 8+ days into the age. Stalling for science then training meant we got war at day 10-11 and had a week of science instead of week of just waiting. Most of the past ages the only kd that could pump as quick as us was PoD (wared them oop twice in the past 7 ages).Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
I've played in KDs that have done this, and what it amounts to is a week of looking for targets and being bored. It's counterintuitive, but I'm sure you know that the goal of a warring KD is not to be much more pumped than the other KDs around them; at least not at the beginning of the age. That simply ends up scaring potential war targets, especially when you have high tpa/wpa for your size. If the point is to pump at your acreage and downsize later, you're better off just warring oop. If the point is to pump at that size, you'll end up waiting for people to finish their first wars before you have your own. By then, it may even be too hard to find war because your KD's tpas/wpas are too high. Pumping and searching for war targets for too long puts a damper on KD morale, and if I was a leader I'd personally like to keep spirits high and avoid any situations that may involve replacing players due to boredom. Like I said, instead of blaming the players for playing the way they do, you might garner more results by looking at the game design and seeing what can be fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
The "You don't war in the top 10 and that's a fact" argument doesn't really make sense when looking at the game. in the top 10 there are currently 3 kd's with 0 wars(and all 3 of these are very much out of choice, and not because they wanted to war but couldn't find a partner.). The other 7 have an average of 3.5 wars(3 have had 3 wars and 3 have had 4 wars). When looking at the War Win chart, outside of the top 6 kd's, it seems like most kd's that are down with having wars have had 3-4. If you want to war, then growing larger doesn't seem to prevent you from getting wars.
Now if you want to compete for #1, your chances will be increased if you follow growth mechanics as proscribed by the age's changes. This might include not warring or being open to cf'ing instead of forcing wars. However, i would counter that by saying 1) You already are saying that it's wars that you are interested and 2) the time spent oow when you are larger is not spent aimlessly like it is everywhere else in the game, but rather can be used as a time to plan long term a war so that when the war does happen it can involve higher amounts of strategy.
I agree that "You don't war in the top 10 and that's a fact" doesn't hold up. However, that's not what I said. Those top KDs that have warred 3-4 times warred their way up and took the acre rewards upon win (I believe your KD is one of them, waving Pyro oop?). I'm speaking about warring KDs that explore up in protection in order to pump and then war down later. If the goal is to stay in the warring tier, there is largely no point to exploring up.Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
Although it may not be enticing for you to spend your time "aimlessly" in-between wars, a lot of warring KDs just like to either take down time after a long war or just keep warring right after they leave eowcf, and they're certainly not wrong to want to do so. As of now the mechanics haven't really aimed to streamline the disparity between NW and warring KDs, and to be honest I'm not sure how it can be done.
Interestingly, of the 6 top kds with 3+ wars, only 3 of them have a winning record (and a fourth is even, at 2/4).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare_
There's nothing wrong with downtime between wars -- it's just that downtime between wars on 500 acres is spent buying science on 500 acres, which is meaningless when you hit 2k -- or much less impactful, let's say. There is also more strategy in wars when you're larger, frankly -- and not just in the ways you can prep (such as soldierpumps) but in the more stark difference between chained and unchained provs and how they can interact with eachother.