AMA & BB ruin the game

The downtime is still downtime if you want it, just it has aim. And yeah, your correct about sploring oop imo. I think if you only want to war then you don't want to splore since everyone is same size so infinite targets(not to mention your so weak after sploring in current changes) and if you want to grow you don't really need to splore either(since you can whore to the front and then pool). I actually don't think we used pool in protection this age or last. You can splore like nooblet is suggesting and pump, leading to a big wpa advantage once others catch up via ww but if your doing it for that purpose then you probably won't be prepared for kd's interested in growth who will wave you and people who are your size via ww will have more bpa and probably more military due to ww bonus/eowcf.

The strategy just isn't there in the lower tier with a few exceptions. A lot of kingdoms simply slug it out not really addressing wpa/tpa shortcomings and I commend them. Problem is these same kingdoms don't do much more than slog. So I think you can engage pumped kingdoms with good strategy, but it's rare for lower tier kingdoms to do both: non-pump, good strategy.

Edit: I'm addressing the kingdom norm. That is, the great majority of the server.

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Originally Posted by Zauper

Interestingly, of the 6 top kds with 3+ wars, only 2 of them have a winning record (and a third is even, at 2/4).

There's nothing wrong with downtime between wars -- it's just that downtime between wars on 500 acres is spent buying science on 500 acres, which is meaningless when you hit 2k -- or much less impactful, let's say. There is also more strategy in wars when you're larger, frankly -- and not just in the ways you can prep (such as soldierpumps) but in the more stark difference between chained and unchained provs and how they can interact with eachother.

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Right. Honestly I haven't been watching the age unfold so I won't speak further about top wars and how KDs ended up how they did.

The downtime spent pumping on 500 is useless if the plan is to grow much larger. This isn't really the case though, and many KDs only end up at 2-3k close to the end of the age. I personally like warring at larger sizes for the reasons that you stated, but for many that just isn't a reality. Stiffer competition, less competition, etc etc. I know there are certain players who detest the possibility of needing to grow in order to find a war, and when you're that high it could be 10k acres. It's easy enough to complain about players who don't want to grow, but there are reasons for this that should be addressed first.

current oop is quite 1 dimensional. even whoring kingdoms really have little reason to explore much as its easy to random so better for them to save pool I would think.

I really think bringing back 3 day oop, and then 1 day protection for anyone after oop would be better :(

Well, we can say what we want about how many wars there has been among kingdoms in the top 10. But at the end of it all, one of the kingdoms that hasn't warred is probably going to win.

old oop sucked. there was only one way to do old oop, and it involved a lot of micromanagement over 3 days.

new oop is straightforward and there are multiple ways to go about it. not exploring is okay, but the tradeoff of 500-1000 soldiers for extra econ is almost always beneficial. attack acres can be padded on to that. for ghettos, the explore pool is almost never tapped dry, so it's a non-issue.

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Originally Posted by topsy's revenge

The downtime is still downtime if you want it, just it has aim. And yeah, your correct about sploring oop imo. I think if you only want to war then you don't want to splore since everyone is same size so infinite targets(not to mention your so weak after sploring in current changes) and if you want to grow you don't really need to splore either(since you can whore to the front and then pool). I actually don't think we used pool in protection this age or last. You can splore like nooblet is suggesting and pump, leading to a big wpa advantage once others catch up via ww but if your doing it for that purpose then you probably won't be prepared for kd's interested in growth who will wave you and people who are your size via ww will have more bpa and probably more military due to ww bonus/eowcf.

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for what it's worth, before i abandoned province i kept about 2x the total books of most provinces in the war tier, having checked some of the better war tier kingdoms (though i was sage, so it should be expected). science from war wins is only compensation, and besides it's based on the premise that small kingdoms will find favorable wars that they can win - we found war day 10-12, which is about the same time a smaller kingdom would find a favorable war. second war came about a week later i think? maybe 10-12 days? forget the exact date. third war would have happened in a similar time frame too if the kingdom had their act together and actually ya know waved people.

the other provinces didn't have as much bpa, but that was mostly their own stupidity and refusal to listen to any science pumping advice (or any advice) in favor of doing stupid things. the better ones were about even with other warring kingdoms.
a few ages back, my old kingdom (same kingdom) was in the best position for a warring kingdom to build up science, and if people were mind-bogglingly incompetent, the whole kingdom has better science by far than any of the kingdoms they would have fought that age. unfortunately, people are lazy and don't want to put in the work to learn attack, and so the few who actually played that situation right got farmed, and the war-a-thon crowd whined, *****ed, and demanded a land drop (and somehow botched that, even).

like i said, the game (or at least this kingdom) has gone to such a level that people want the game handed to them, and strategic thinking in ghettoland is hopeless. you can grow out some and find wars, just a matter of patience and picking targets that will be a fair challenge, and then managing growth properly and monitoring the server. it's pointless to speak in generalities, the ranking charts are largely grown from player actions and the way things are creates a self-sustaining crisis where only a small group of kingdoms benefit.

seems like AMA and BB really ruined the game :(

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Originally Posted by topsy's revenge

The "You don't war in the top 10 and that's a fact" argument doesn't really make sense when looking at the game. in the top 10 there are currently 3 kd's with 0 wars(and all 3 of these are very much out of choice, and not because they wanted to war but couldn't find a partner.).

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So exactly who in their right mind would war BB or AMA? It's by choice in the sense that they obviously went for land growth and managed it better than everybody else. But I doubt that either of them would have minded a war or two at some point. The problem is that the air is thinner the higher up you get so there is less availible partners and none of those partners would willingly war either AMA or BB because it'd be a guaranteed loss.
BB tried to notice PewPew and make them war them, PewPew selfrazed their provinces rather than war them, AMA did the same with Rage with the same, albeit an even more spectacular result, it also seems that AMA tried noticing Havoc and Havoc would rather make a deal for 20% of their acres or something like that than war AMA.
So I wouldn't say that it's entirely by choice that they're warless, in fact a war would probably have been a very good thing for them and preferable because it'd let them concentrate acres onto cows and some of the core leaving the rest viable to random again.

It's almost like you quoted half of what someone said even as the other half refutes your response.

TLDR: 7/10 of the top 10 have warred an average amount. People who claim they just want to war can do things that ama/bb might not be willing to do to get those wars(as evidenced by the 7 in the top 10 that do want to war). If ama/bb were largely interested in warring then each could have had wars this age very easily.

Anyone in AMA/BB that wants to war should credit their way like so: credits, invite-outvite x 2=4 invites.

A) find some province in a kingdom going to war with some kingdom you hate. Exchange invites to kingdoms.
B) AMA/BB sit the knucklehead who exchanged places(don't want a war kingdom guy doing this unmonitored)
C) after the war the invites are exchanged back and both players have the same province they had before.

~ revenge is expensive because it's worth it ~

why doesn't havoc war fake rage? instead they are too busy teaching each other how to unsuccessfully cheat via exploiting game mechanics and getting actioned for it. less time cheating, more time warring.

i still think it's pretty silly for people to worry about staying small in a game where acres can be so volatile and easy to access.

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Originally Posted by Proteus

why doesn't havoc war fake rage? instead they are too busy teaching each other how to unsuccessfully cheat via exploiting game mechanics and getting actioned for it. less time cheating, more time warring.

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People might deem it a FW.

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Originally Posted by tetley

People might deem it a FW.

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All in game wars are fake. Real wars last for ages on the forums.