Tainted how?Quote:
Originally Posted by calamity
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Tainted how?Quote:
Originally Posted by calamity
War is demonstrably not a stance. Stances are unilateral positions taken by kingdoms that can give the provinces in a kingdom additional bonuses and weaknesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
War is a unique relationship between two kingdoms that by design excludes all other kingdoms in the game for the duration it exists. (I.e. You can't be at war with more than one kingdom at the same time).
Your description is 100% wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calya
If it was designed to exclude all other kingdoms in the game....then you wouldn't be able to attack, spell, op at all. Instead it's specifically setup so that you CAN it's just not beneficial.
I have not followed this conversation but splitting hairs, isn't war a relation? As opposed to a stance?
unfriendly, hostile and war = relations
normal, aggressive, fortified (or whatever it is now) = stances
right?
That said, no one complains about hitting into an "unfriendly". It happens all the time. Few make a huge stink (aka forum posts) about hits into a hostile, even though it is frowned upon. So, why all the drama about war?
Because hitting in to war directly benefits the target's war opponent. The war should be a measure of the two warring KDs against each other. Hitting in to that is exponentially more of a cheap move than hitting in to unfriendly or hostile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
How exactly is it different? If two kingdoms are clearly hitting each other for war, a kingdom hitting them in unfriendly helps the other kingdom just as much as hitting into a war. You could probably argue that the unfriendly attack does more damage to swinging the outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phylast
I disagree. I don't think it's wrong at all (but I wouldn't, would I?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimi
War is unique; Like stances it gives (mostly) advantages to a kingdom. Unlike stances, it gives exactly the same (mostly) advantages to two kingdoms, simultaneously. War is a relationship; It requires an element of consent between two kingdoms to accomplish.
It is not intended to protect you from all outside interference (due to potential abuse of the system/fake wars) but it is equally not possible to be at war with two different kingdoms at the same time.
The mechanics of the game dissuade hits into or out of war. The entire player-base feels aggrieved when a third party interferes in their war by hitting them. Those who hit into war know that the people they hit are either going to have get out of the war (likely with a loss) or else continue to suffer hits in what was a 1v1 battle; In either case, morale is knocked down and players out of the game.
If you care about Utopia as a game, any of these are solid reasons not to hit into a war.
I agree that Unfriendly seems largely ignorable at this point, and hits into Hostile are generally frowned upon but tolerated. But War and Unfriendly/Hostile are dramatically different situations. For me, the difference is that Unfriendly and Hostile situations can be unilaterally created by a kingdom. War only happens when both kingdoms essentially agree to fight each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
And to add to what Phylast mentioned; If someone waves you during a non-war situation, you have not-bad options; You can take the new threat to war/retaliate. You can ignore them and retaliate later (possibly with the button if you're lucky). If you're in war, you're options are not-good; Withdraw and try to rebuild to take on the newcomer. Or "suck it up" and try to fight two kingdoms at once.
If this comes across as a big whine about how unfair it is to hit into a war, that's ok. It is unfair to hit into a war. But it's also malicious. That's much, much worse for the longterm survival of the game.
War is a stance that overrides all relations.
direct from the wiki on relations.
Attacking another kingdom affects the relations between the two kingdoms.
By continually attacking, your kingdom's conflict level against said kingdom will elevate, thereby changing the relation type; first from Normal to Unfriendly, and then Hostile.
There are five relation types, each of which have various benefits and penalties.
Clearly war is a relation...
Stances as previously mentioned are a state that each kingdom can set and have a specific benefit / penalty for the kingdom setting it and other kingdom interacting with the kingdom that set the stance.
Relations require the actions of one or both kingdoms, hence one kingdom can be hostile with another while the other remains normal or unfriendly in their relationship with the attacking kingdom, when the relationship degrades ultimately it will degrade into war which over rides all other relations and neutralises any stance effects.
fairly clear IMHO.