That's actually quite funny...Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
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That's actually quite funny...Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Where was all "moral" people when Sanctuary and Havoc duble hostile us. Did they get GB for it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezzerland
Where was all "moral" people when Pew Pew farmed out to swea and after SWEA manipulate Simians/Stripers to GB us, when this not worked SWEA deal broke us too.
Where was all "moral" people when Pew Pew farmed out last age to Rage. Did they got GBed for chart shape every age? No they become ally with Rage next age. Sure its make sense.
Where was all "moral" people when we get **** played every age? No one care about us. Its same this age too. ATM no one care for havoc. All was perfect fine if we raze acres after we take down Havoc so Pyro can win age. Now because we dont raze them Drixx/CJ feel upsed and become "moral".
If pyro want to win his age legit can war havoc now 1vs1 and if win his war we will let them finish n1. If Pyro get involved in any gb don't matter how its end if Puro win its result from free pass. No more legit from if we win from deal break.
So make your choices and bring some action...and be ready for get punished for them in future ;)
Where was all the "moral" people when AMA hit in to war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Oh right, probably playing in AMA.
You mean when Amas allies backstabbed them by cheating them out of their target?Quote:
Originally Posted by Runefire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
It seems alot of people are butthurt about AMA. I will share with you an old chinese saying: "The tree that bears the most fruit gets thrown at."
In short, haters gonna hate. These people who are hating on you guys are just jelly. =P
sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by elit
All I could have really done to stop this 2v1 was to take Rage out of Abs, why would havoc have to listen to me if I am not the leader of their kd. Considering Rage was the kd to beat and had people ****playing us (like bios repeated 2v1s) or people like flogger who napped everyone else and gunned for us every age, leaving Abs would be dumb (i.e. For example AMA is easily best kd on server but cant always close crowns due to ****play at eoa). Ultimately that age ASF and I decided we would no longer be allied to Sanc and after I retired from actually leading Rage I was asked to stay on as ama devised and help out...my only question was, "Are you going to be allied to Havoc?" After receiving the affirmative I packed my **** and left. So yes I did privately act according to what I felt was .right but no I wasnt going to fck abs over or my kd from within over what havoc did.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
As for leaders who still play there... Nickmi founder/owner still plays in havoc who was main one behind the 2v1', maxi Ouse is in havoc who was a leader in sanc during 2v1, i believe hawk is there also who was a sanc leader, and some others. So yes its the same kd, especially after zauper left and they were back to their old ghetto tricks.
Hmm. Perhaps it's just about time that people just accept how things are and has turned out. We're all seeing this from many different angles and will no matter what agree on this. Let's not bicker and argue about who ****played who. Because everybody seems quite determined in defending their actions or intentions, valid arguments or not, this thread will never end up in any kind of common consent. Why you guys should just learn to live with what happened! What ever happens this age will most likely influence the comming ages topplay which it the only positiv thing that came out of this AMA wave. Positive in the sense, that next age and the comming ages will show which is infact the best KD to navigate and fight in ****ty waters :D
jjofdenmark, try to imagine how boring and ****y age we will had if AMA is not around. All top happy power play smaller kds and dont war.
or not elit. the top KD that wants to crow will sit and masturbate their acres all age and the others will find fun wars and completely ignore CR. If it got down to only one KD masturbating acres all day long, I think it might last two ages before that ended and people just warred.
There will be next kd for sure every age. Till there left 1kd and Simians can win :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
you know, I doubt it. I expect if no one was whoring up, simians might initially be whoring along and then, when they have a 10k acre lead on everyone say "oh crap, no one is doing this.....sigh" and then pump and wait for people to grow up so that they can war and have fun. That would be the end of it and simians may or may not crown that age, but I would expect at that point, no one would care anymore.
Herro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
You make a stand and a point for fair play even if they are your ally or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Last age after the pew2 fiasco we went to our then ally Havoc/Zauper for help. We asked them their position on it and they said they agreed with AMA/BB/EJ and we should raze the acres or they would help with the GB that was being threatened. You see if you power play your own "ally" they'd do the right thing. I wonder if AMA was aware that Havoc actually left us out to dry last age. Did AMA even thank Havoc for supporting their claims it was a farm out/fake war? No probably not. AMA go and deal break them this age and put their middle finger up as it is their only chance to crown.
If a few ages ago Rage was really against the whole Havoc vs Sanc situation, all they had to say was that they disagreed, would wave/war either sanc/Havoc so AMA can fight the other fairly. Everyone knows simians is always up for drama and their relations with Rage is good. At that time Simians had no reason to NOT help elit so it would have easily got turned to a 3v2 situation. You'd like to assume though that by that stage Sanc/Havoc would of been reasonable and choose to negotiate.
Once again though. This to me just smells like complete BS to get a crown. The QQing will continue from all sides and people will seek revenge next age which is wrong.
Agree with you on that one Elit! Just saying it could be interesting if we all agreed on no PF's, NAPs and such for an age or two :D As it is now we have a few KD's who just CF/NAP their way up and take it from there and when those few are in the top the small battle begins. Could be interesting to see how things would turn out, if no naps or cf's were made. I know we wouldn't be nearly as big, nor would you, if all these arrangements didn't freeze it all for 7-8 weeks. More KD's in play no ****play or dealbreaks cause it's all ****play and no deals. Let's call it a semi organized server war where ppl have fun. Don't spend week after week in pump mode, but need to be prepared to defend at all times. Just saying.
Who would crown such an age? I'm quite sure those KD's with hardcore leaders and the best and most active players will prove themselves worthy. Just more fun to do so without all those ****play threads and bad excuses after age is over.
You really don't understand game. If our goal was to secure win age i wouldn't tell Pyro 24h early to up his draft and go fort stance. Was much more effective to wave pyro after Havoc go in fort stance and secure 100% age win from there. All what we did is for PUNISH Havoc for his arrogance making this topic and calling us farmers (its mean rage/pew pew/pyro/RK all are farms based to Havoc) after Havoc got for free 17k acres.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
We had perfect good relation with Havoc till zauper was in charge with diplo and if his KD keep-ed his promise and extended deal how they told us there wont be all this drama and most like its will resulted Havoc win age. Grudges and pay back come first for me. Crowns dont really mater atm. Its wont make my kd better or less good if we win/loss it.
its nice to see that the double dealbreak was considered too ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Sure Elit, you are so trustworthy, we all buy your stories
My previous post explains why I didnt do that...it would destroy abs if kds start fighting and gbing each other and why would I ever want to do that when externally aabs has been **** playing age in age out. So yes its better to display a united front externally via all propaganda I wrote in forums and disagree internally, tell dorje we are no longer allies effective next age, and ultimately leave the kd when the prospect of being allied with havoc came up after I retired from leading.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
Elit is right though when the ****play was happening no one really cared to intervene. This age no one would help havoc either as long as we razed the acres and agreed not to crown dont you see that . People are only wanting to gb us to secure crown for pyro or other kd in RBL/pew/pyro alliance however i dont see the point because it is a crown no one will respect and only laugh at them if its a crown they try to "claim" as whoever crowns this age will have had 0% chance to do so had we not taken havoc out.
Proteus, I've seen the logs. You were just as instrumental in that 2v1 as they were. I saw logs of you actually coordinating the 2v1 4 rounds ago so stfu dude. Should AMA have dealbroken themselves because you're playing in AMA? This will now be the 3rd round that I'm indirectly paying the price for you doing something stupid 4 rounds ago because AMA is a bunch of whiners who have to play the victim card every single round. The best part now though is you're the one telling me about it lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Myself, topsy, and zauper would never allow a 2v1 and we have the final say. There is exactly 0 instances where either one of us has a dealbreak or 2v1 attached to our name. Why do you think we tried so hard to make a deal? We didn't want some craziness like that to happen. The entire point of this thread was to get you guys to make a deal. You used it as a carte blanche to do whatever you wanted and almost everyone in utopia hates you for it. Maybe that should tell you something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
It indeed seems you like you never had any real intention of waving into our war or hostile with pyro?
And this coming from a KD who without a doubt has 2v1'd and ****played us before.
Its not considered at all. Im just explain if our goal was win crown there was better way to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoize
If you read it careful its was me advice pyro to up draft and go fort early and its why you did it.
Come from you after deal break us 2 ages ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
Yes, that was a misspeak mainly because Elit irritated me in the previous post. I meant to say we will be hitting April 1st if you're not in relations. This is further backed up by these posts that came a few minutes later.
My personal stance from the start (not kd's stance) was to drop the notice on Jan 1st and see how it plays out. A couple people in the kingdom (topsy, munk, fook, etc) convinced me to just extend the CF for 96 hrs with the promise of fighting the winner and I agreed. Then we shipped the note to AMA a day later after this post. AMA should have had 0 concern about getting 2v1'ed when they dealbroke because we don't dealbreak.
"Meep, they have the exact same notice with Pyro. So unless they pull a Pew2 (which they chastised so much and I believe ultimately hit into that war) and reduce the notice time to enter a planned war to run away from the better kingdom, i seriously doubt they'll be in war April 1st. There's lots of ways this can play out, but hopefully AMA will work out some kind of deal prior to this. We really don't want to be "that kingdom.""
Quote Originally Posted by Drug View Post
Is it official "we will double hostile u no matter what" thread by Havoc players?
Nope. We'll have to take a look at what the scenario looks like. The only thing that I have mentioned in this thread is that the notice is for sure dropping Jan 1, irregardless of whether or not you move your CF/Notice date with Pyro. I'm not interested in playing bush league games here
yes, crowns only matter at end of age and not at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
If grudge and payback come first then i guess CR had no chance on not getting waved anyway... Maybe thats the Big secret :D
I was in good relation with CR not Havoc. Havoc cost us crown 4 ages ago and did same what they promised in forum to do. They can blame only himself for all rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by RawStuff
You are clever in your words of manipulation but not as clever as mansoor!Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
People don't trust your word elit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
Nesta Trusted me enough to order his kd up draft and go fort stance.
I guess the Big Secret Age 60 goal is to piss everyone off and retire in a blaze of infamy.....
am I close Elit?
It would have been a serious mistake if Nesta hadn't told the kingdom to draft up. AMA had become a loose cannon and there was no telling if they would come after Pyro next.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Elit, the only thing you can do at this situation to have little honor back, is to self raze to havoc size and WAR them like a man. But i doubt that is an option for youQuote:
Quote Originally Posted by Elit View Post
Its not considered at all. Im just explain if our goal was win crown there was better way to do it.
If you read it careful its was me advice pyro to up draft and go fort early and its why you did it.
Come from you after deal break us 2 ages ago...
Self razing now when Havoc still has button and many other advantages is kinda suicide ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by scitzo
It doesn't matter whether I was in abs or not or what my role in anything was as ultimately havoc and sanc were the kds that did it and ama has a right to repay them. It doesn't matter where I play or where I used to play and my past relations with elit have nothing to do with your kingdoms relations with ama. Bottom line is havoc doubled ama (when I wasn't in ama) and cost them a crown and ama has a right to repay havoc, this has nothing to do with me or where I play(ed) and ama is not my kd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
If you wanted to do diplom you would have done it in game and not in n00b forums with this stupid thread, what kind of ghetto diplomacy is this. In all of my ages playing in and leading kds I have never saw this kind of bs. All you did was disrespect and taunt ama in forums about how you will 2v1 us and how we should not run. You should blame your n00b leader/player munk for this as well, I don't even know who the hell he is to be talking **** to us all age and threatening 2v1, as far as I am concerned he is a joke and is talking high might after you farm and tax ghettos all age, the only reason you are even in this position is because of zauper who had good relations with elit and got long cf, otherwise you go down early age like you did last two times when you try to fight with ama or bb.
What you should realize is with your **** history and being run by ghetto monarchs who do 2v1 you need to be graceful and fair, especially to kd you have good relations with. When you have 0 meaningful crowns in your kd havoc/cr and see chance to crown you go crazy and forsake all good relations to screw people over. I remember when your ally rage got dealbroken by strippers you refused to help because you only cared about crowning. I remember when your kd had 0% chance to beat ama in fair 1v1 war after ama farmed sanc so you arranged double team. Now you see very very small chance to lose age if ama fight pyro first and make advance notice/dibs and dictate who we should fight and threaten 2v1 if we dont do what you want. Now you learn lesson hopefully, if you ever want to crown you should treat people fairly and stop making **** moves. Our players in ama have won many crows in other kds and we don't care about crowning this age (if we did eoa dealbreak is way to go rather than punish you now when there are weeks left in age to be gbed). This was purely to teach you a lesson that we will not tolerate ****play from you, if you want to make **** vs us expect to receive it back. Mess with the bull you get the horns baby.
- Play with fire, and you're bound to get burned?Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
- If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen?
And again all the references to ages past.... Jeez.... is it too late to complain about KAER hijacking my email account because they wanted to fill the spot in their kingdom with someone else? Who was in that kingdom that still plays anyway? I should have a huge grudge against them and I feel obligated to ****play them as soon as I find out where they play.
G.E.T. O.V.E.R. I.T.
TL;DRQuote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
good to see more ama drama- seems to follow them close! Although the top is small so it probably follows everyone. Proteus don't be silly you were fully involved in the AMA scenario a year ago or however long ago that was. You sat there and complained when we asked you to stay out because you wanted the acres and we didn't want you to take the acres :P. You had an eoa nap with them and openly stated your intentions numerous times to break it.
Fortunately we warred them for 4 weeks and they were too small at the end :)
Diplo is silly if you make a cf and intend to break it citing the past then don't make the cf :P. Or do- I suppose it doesn't matter but no one is clean so its kind of silly
Guys & Girls,
Hope everyone (be it whicever kingdom that you come from) take 3-4 mins to read through this post. This post contains honest and neutral thoughts and anyone and everyone is free to challenge them.
For those who have just started reading this thread, this is a quick update/recap.
-----------------------
Q. Was AMA right to dealbreak CR/Havoc and wave them before CF expiry date?
In terms of the CF conditions, it's considered a dealbreak by AMA because the CF hasnt expired itself. However, AMA do take responsibility for their action and said their purpose is to 'punish' CR/Haovc. There have been differing voices from AMA on whether they would be keeping their acres, whether they are doing this to crown etc.
AMA's members have their rationale for doing so, which will be explained in the next few pointers.
Q. Was CR/Havoc right to create this thread and call dibs on AMA 1+weeks in advance of possible notice date?
Technically speaking, there is nothing wrong as it can be seen with either good or bad intentions. CR could be giving AMA advanced information that a notice would be served and hence benefiting AMA, or CR could be trying to 'force' AMA into warring them and no other kingdom.
There has been many cases where Kingdom A will tell Kingdom B that they are going to be noticed (i.e for Pyros' case, Simians noticing Pyro, BB-Pyro arranged war (where a notice still needs to be sent) etc etc). I still think it's fine with the intention of telling Kingdom B to not do any shady shenanigans, but it is not fine if the advanced notice is meant to 'corner' Kingdom A.
What was CR's intention in this thread? It looks like a mixture of both intentions.
However, I do not think it's very wise to ****talk/thrashtalk an opponent before you get into a SECURED advantageous position yourself. ****-talking/thrash-talking is fine per-say as it adds more fun & laughter to the game... and said to the right audience (no problem, you can **** talk me it's fine :D i can take it!) But I feel that certain members of CR really did it at the wrong timing (probably kicking themselves in the head now :( )
Q. Why was AMA pissed? Is it justified?
Based on certain AMA's + CR's members post + what I can see,
- AMA was mainly pissed for the fact that CR wanted to call dibs on AMA first and said that CR would be hitting them on April 1st regardless of what is going to happen. AMA felt that they are being 'forced' to war with CR.
- AMA also mentioned that they have a reset clause with CR (72hrs notice) that if AMA was involved in a hostile/war, this notice period has to be reset-ed. What happened was that AMA said that CR initially said that they are not willing to give an additional 72hrs notice if AMA were to war Pyro (i.e hitting AMA straight out of post-war is fine).
- AMA was also pissed that the past couple of ages, they got **** played (from their point of view) and no action were taken to help them. Apparently, (just had a history lesson of uto), AMA was doubled by Havoc+Sanc 3 ages ago... and Havoc+Sanc leaders are currently playing in CR. With that being said, AMA+Simians+Pew+BB+SWEA? all ganged up to kill abs the following age (2 ages ago)
In the end, CR was willing to allow both AMA+Pyro to war each other and give 96hours post war notice for both kingdoms on the condition that AMA+Pyro cannot b2b and the winner cannot run from CR. This was about 3.5-4 days before possible notice date. (note: Thread was started about 8-9days before possible notice date) Pyro was fine with this, but AMA said that this offer came very late and that the ****-talk+threathening already caused a deep wound.. CR claimed that this offer did not come very late.
In addition, AMA claimed that CR only offered this after they saw the ghetto razes on AMA's cow which weakened AMA alot... and hence CR felt more confident. (and tbh ofc, Pyros also felt more confident after this.)
Q. So should AMA be 'punished' for dealbreaking CR?
AMA members already said they expected to be GB so it is assumed they know they will be 'punished'. The more important question here is that : is this a bias-ed GB on AMA? Considering the fact that there were many '****plays' the past few ages that went unpunished.
Q. So has AMA played a great age so far? What about CR? What about Pyros? (the 3 current front runners thus far)
AMA definitely played a wonderful age thus far. Warring to whoring. They managed to beat two reputable kingdoms (Pew+Rage) in b2b2b wars (RK-Pew-Rage) and were in disadvantageous positions in both wars (Pew+Rage). Their warring ability is definitely top class, if not the best in utopia. However, after the ghetto problems (razes from solo cows from a ghetto kingdom), AMA had close to zero chance of winning CR in a straight up 1v1 fight as of then, and the razes also considerably reduced AMA's chance of a win vs Pyros as of then. If they had somehow won Pyro + Havoc back to back, I am sure even the worst haters of AMA will also give AMA credit.
CR has also definitely played a wonderful age so far. Diplomacy to whoring. They set up long-terms CFs with several kingdoms and managed to pick up acres + pump science freely throughout the age. Warring a way to win in utopia, but diplomacy also works. Whether or not 'tax-ing' kingdoms like Simians to 'slow-down' PewPew/Pyro is 'fine', it is up to the individual opinon. Personally, I disliked CR for doing so (from a competitor's viewpoint) but I dont find anything 'wrong' with it.. This is because once again, CR played a diplomatic age and used their resources+strengths to acehive such leveraged deals.
What about Pyros? Compared to the two above kingdoms, we probably did not do that great in terms of warring compared to AMA (Legacy, Simians, BB were tough opponents but were nothing compared to what AMA faced... b2b2b wars with Pewpew+Rage)... and we probably did not do that well in diplomacy compared to CR.. It is true that our chances of winning the age was quite low before AMA 'dealbroke' CR... However, we were willing to take our chances to war AMA and CR b2b, and there were strategies/plans that we had to win both kingdoms.. Unfortunately, I would not be able to share these with the public now.
In addition, some may say that if Pyros were to win the crown now.. would it be legitimate? would it be fair? (give they had very low chances...). I would say it is fair and legitmate. Why? Take the analogy of a chess game, Pyros is probably a Queen down and in a massively disadvantaged position... However, they are not lost yet. They can be patient and hope for a 'mistake' from the opponents to provide an opening. In this case, this 'mistake' came from AMA waving Havoc and hence providing a possible opening..
With that being said, Pyros will not take full advantage of this situation. We will take some advantage and get into a better position than we had before (before AMA waved CR), but it will be capped. Only time will tell if we stay true to our words. In addition, if we were to just whore up during CR-AMA conflict, and CR-AMA were to have a 1v1 fight, there would be zero chance that we can actually be on par with AMA after their huge cows+ww land bonus + huge acres. More importantly, this would mean that Pyros support this dealbreak/**** play and our stance is against such stuff. Not acting against this means we tolerate such stuff, that's a no.
-------------
Once again, feel free to rebutt any of my points. Have a nice day!
Cheers
cJ
-----
PS: if you want tldr cliff notes version. TOO BAD DONT HAVE
tldr: #YOLO!
I have a little story for everyone
Our story begins in the old west. A tumbleweed blows through town as dusk approaches. The townsfolk gather with shotguns and torches. They march down main street to the saloon. Outside stands the man that shot the sheriff, Elit Cassidy. He fires off one shot from his six shooter and says, "Now I may not be able to shoot you all but I sure as hell will take down the first few that try." Now the townsfolk must decide do they protect order in their small town and risk meeting the same fate as Sheriff CR.
And there it is, ladies and gentlemen. The one and only Pyro, gallantly riding to the forefront of fairplay will join in the GB on AMA. But instead of razing the acres, as they should be doing, they'll grab some, just to create an advantage. Hypocrisy galore. This game is deadQuote:
Originally Posted by TheOne
Then Clint Eastwood comes and you're all screwed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Band of Horses
The one and only AMA, crying they were being bullied, said they would pull out of the crown race, that they are not interested in the crown and want to be left alone to punish Havoc. But instead of razing the acres, as they should have done, they grabbed them, just to create an advantage. Hypocrisy galore. This game is dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cello