Spartans Vs Nonpandas

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

Im a special case 2Utopian. Due to my high IQ and feeling for social interaction Ive been able to learn in 3-4 ages what most spent a lifetime on learning. Squee is a good player but the prov I took over was in a bad shape. During my 1.5 weeks in giraffes I whored twice as much honor as the 2nd best. Anyways, playing a prov is fairly easy compared to leading a KD!

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I outwhored everyone in my KD as an Elf first age whoring, ending up as #1 honor elf oop, my 2nd age whoring I outwhored everyone again as Avian... These people think that logging in every 12h and putting some structures to be done or whatever takes some sort of exemplary skill, whatever, whatever rows their boat, I'll keep rowing mine the way I please :D

And yes, the skillcap in this game is only high if you are in charge of KD-wide things.

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Originally Posted by Zauper

It actually does in both cases. If you asked me if I'd rather have Kerda, who will login 2x/day and hasn't played in 30 ages, or a random war kd player -- the answer would be Kerda every time. There's value in not having monitor and bash knowledge into people's heads. CR has pretty much without a doubt been the best whoring kd (at whoring) of the last 5-10 ages. You don't always have (or want to spend) 2 ages to bring someone from a warring kd up to speed -- or have the will to micromanage them heavily. Because it will be required. Look at Octo's struggles in Sparta, who pretty much insist on making terrible hits.

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This sounds familiar :-p
It's though to adapt to the whoring system if you're used to warring. Last age after our merge, we had a bunch of guys not used to whoring. Some took little time to adapt, some more. You have a few good ones who can adapt quickly, but you also have slow learners.

So if you ask me to choose between an unknown or a known, I'd probably pick the known as well. New players are always a bit of a gamble, but I have to admit that the majority of guys we had come from the war tier, did adapt fairly quick. A few did surprisingly well.

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Originally Posted by Zauper

Beyond that, by late age, in the average growth kingdom, you have somewhere between 10 and 15 players in important roles -- a significant portion of core, frankly. You need a lot of players that you can trust to be an effective calf or t/m. Even upper core to some extent requires extra thought. You need to figure out the optimal builds for everyone in each of those roles, and having people who can think for themselves there is very valuable -- moreso than the difference between 3k and 3.1k acres, or hitting the whore cap 2 days earlier (especially with the current sci system).

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The explore cost changes really changed the cow/calf system a lot. On one hand it's a lot more annoying (need to think 10 different options rather than 1), on the other hand it adds diversity which makes it a little more interesting

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

You haven't played with me yet, people put me on attacker because of my attitude not because I can't think for myself :D

I'll make a blunder here and there but that's because I'll try stuff that you shouldn't try, now I wouldn't even try it, the risks I make are usually when it doesn't hurt the KD from crowning, let's call them premeditated risks. Actually reaching 3000 acres while someone else is still at 2500 can have significant ramifications if taken advantage of accordingly. You will pump 10nwpa more because of the early advantage, you will simply be ahead for a while, until you get chained of course because you remain the biggest threat. Being active per tick can make a significant difference on its own in certain situations as well. There's not much thought involved most of the time if the correct orders are given on time and you simply follow them either. I'm out, I won't change your mind on this and you won't change mine, I speak from my experience and you speak from yours.

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I have so I know :p
The difference between "the best" and "the rest" is they would skip those blunders. It's all about profit. Hitting for 200a and getting retalled isn't profitable. Hitting for 50a without a retal, is profit.
The difference between 2500 or 3000 isn't 10nwpa, it's simply having 500 acres more space. The difference between whoring to 2500 or to 2600 could make a difference in a fight.

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Originally Posted by Judge

Well this is where you are wrong.

I have crowned 4 times till now and all the 4 times I was in the leadership. You = 0?
According to me this one statement is enough to troll you for eternity!

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There are leaders who lead the pack and then there's the alpha leaders who make the strategy.

I'm pretty sure Anri has been the alpha in Simians for a long time. I very much doubt you've been the alpha in Emeriti or whichever other kingdom you crowned with.

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Originally Posted by octobrev

Playing in Spartans causes stress and gastrointestinal bleeding.

#truth

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http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20111004092756

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Originally Posted by protector

I have so I know :p
The difference between "the best" and "the rest" is they would skip those blunders. It's all about profit. Hitting for 200a and getting retalled isn't profitable. Hitting for 50a without a retal, is profit.
The difference between 2500 or 3000 isn't 10nwpa, it's simply having 500 acres more space. The difference between whoring to 2500 or to 2600 could make a difference in a fight.

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I very seldom get retaliated. Last time was this age when I hit a KD I was too tired to check the page of from searching too many targets on my phone. Before that I don't even remember the last time I got retaliated. The rate at which I get retaliated has always been rather low and it's extremely low now when I actually don't make these small mistakes anymore. If you are talking about that steward that kept hitting me that was his own mistake because we ended up farming that KD and only profited from that whole ordeal. This whole story is not what I meant by my "blunders". It's the things like venturing into some weird pump or build or hits that sometimes work and sometimes don't. I'd like to share a story here from my father, while he was recruiting motorbike riders for the Presidental Security for the army the main question he asked was: "Have you ever fallen of a motorbike?" Those who answered that they hadn't he hadn't even considered to join his team. I think the analogy is clear enough.

Well I had like 10-20(? not sure on the exact numbers) more NWPA over anyone else in the KD after any pump this age. First time it was partially because I stocked a bit of GC before my armories came in, this was like 6-8 extra ticks of not immediately drafting and training even though the order was we couldn't afford that the order was also to train when armories come in so I don't know if I disobeyed an order here :D Next pump was just a pump in fort I believe and the subsequent training in aggressive stance before the hostile with WSK, here we can pretty much only attribute the shape of my prov to the domino effect of whoring well at the start of the age. If it's not that, it still has to be something, I don't see how I'm that much better at pumping than anyone else, it seems pretty straightforward, I'm even too lazy to calculate anything and just eyeball everything.

Your view of whoring in general is to be very safe, I have only whored in your KD thus far and I don't know if this is the policy everywhere. I think it's a sound strategy if you want to go that route. I wouldn't call a more risk prone whorer any worse at whoring necessarily though if the whole KD is on the same page, you can still net gain more land, of course you risk unwhorable acres but you might compensate that by simply ending up larger than the whole server. An example I'd like to bring up here is someone like Hawk who I think is in general considered one of the top whorers? Well he was extremely risk prone, to the point where it gets annoying and detrimental to the KD as a whole... My personal opinion is that a balance can be found, using your own intuition as to what will get retaliated and what will not, now this is a skill that can be honed, not razing 10% of your land and redistributing it to something else, I don't need to think to do that, all I need is a calculator if I'm not too lazy to use it.

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

I very seldom get retaliated. Last time was this age when I hit a KD I was too tired to check the page of from searching too many targets on my phone. Before that I don't even remember the last time I got retaliated. The rate at which I get retaliated has always been rather low and it's extremely low now when I actually don't make these small mistakes anymore. If you are talking about that steward that kept hitting me that was his own mistake because we ended up farming that KD and only profited from that whole ordeal. This whole story is not what I meant by my "blunders". It's the things like venturing into some weird pump or build or hits that sometimes work and sometimes don't. I'd like to share a story here from my father, while he was recruiting motorbike riders for the Presidental Security for the army the main question he asked was: "Have you ever fallen of a motorbike?" Those who answered that they hadn't he hadn't even considered to join his team. I think the analogy is clear enough.

Well I had like 10-20(? not sure on the exact numbers) more NWPA over anyone else in the KD after any pump this age. First time it was partially because I stocked a bit of GC before my armories came in, this was like 6-8 extra ticks of not immediately drafting and training even though the order was we couldn't afford that the order was also to train when armories come in so I don't know if I disobeyed an order here :D Next pump was just a pump in fort I believe and the subsequent training in aggressive stance before the hostile with WSK, here we can pretty much only attribute the shape of my prov to the domino effect of whoring well at the start of the age. If it's not that, it still has to be something, I don't see how I'm that much better at pumping than anyone else, it seems pretty straightforward, I'm even too lazy to calculate anything and just eyeball everything.

Your view of whoring in general is to be very safe, I have only whored in your KD thus far and I don't know if this is the policy everywhere. I think it's a sound strategy if you want to go that route. I wouldn't call a more risk prone whorer any worse at whoring necessarily though if the whole KD is on the same page, you can still net gain more land, of course you risk unwhorable acres but you might compensate that by simply ending up larger than the whole server. An example I'd like to bring up here is someone like Hawk who I think is in general considered one of the top whorers? Well he was extremely risk prone, to the point where it gets annoying and detrimental to the KD as a whole... My personal opinion is that a balance can be found, using your own intuition as to what will get retaliated and what will not, now this is a skill that can be honed, not razing 10% of your land and redistributing it to something else, I don't need to think to do that, all I need is a calculator if I'm not too lazy to use it.

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Oi! Keep your dirty laundry within the KD. @Matija. My offer still stands. You can take care of all strategy and use your activity to make it happen for us. I will take care of roster/top-diplo issues ^^

The thing these guys, these top leaders, aren't saying is that those sleepers can be awaken to perform at very high levels.
Like Matija I eyeball about everything and function without fear.

I've served with some fantastic players when they aren't testing the ceiling. Even though it's an age off for them I can tell by the language they use, the refinement of their progression and the references they make that they have sophisticated understanding of the game. I remember mentioning on these boards that I wasn't progressing by the ORDERS GIVEN IN CAPITAL LETTERS WITH 5 exclamation points, it was the cryptic hints that they would offer that seemed esoteric.

Hawk is an extremely risky hitter and I think CR will agree that he can be stressful to work with. So much so that he wasn't invited over into the next round after the Expendables crown (that's why he went to BB). He is good though. Would recruit again. I miss our fights every time his army came home!

Safety is definitely a key feature of the better cut of the whoring kds.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

Oi! Keep your dirty laundry within the KD. @Matija. My offer still stands. You can take care of all strategy and use your activity to make it happen for us. I will take care of roster/top-diplo issues ^^

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Haha totally failed that offer, are you kidding me? What good would I do taking care of all your strategy. I would need flogger to take 5 seconds of his time to tell me the best setup for the next age when the changes get released to even stand a chance :D Jokes aside, I haven't ever asked anyone how the actual strategical math in this game works, I only know what I randomly pick up over time. I'd probably do well with at least a few lessons in strategy from the key figures to get me up to speed to even think about undertaking something like that.

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Originally Posted by octobrev

Hawk is an extremely risky hitter and I think CR will agree that he can be stressful to work with. So much so that he wasn't invited over into the next round after the Expendables crown (that's why he went to BB). He is good though. Would recruit again. I miss our fights every time his army came home!

Safety is definitely a key feature of the better cut of the whoring kds.

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Yes, this sounds very familiar :D

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Originally Posted by protector

There are leaders who lead the pack and then there's the alpha leaders who make the strategy.

I'm pretty sure Anri has been the alpha in Simians for a long time. I very much doubt you've been the alpha in Emeriti or whichever other kingdom you crowned with.

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What you say is right. But being a leader who lead the pack (pandas/42) and a alpha leader who led Simians has no difference right now.

I never said I was the one making strategies in Emeriti or in any other kingdom i Crowned. But every leader has a role to play. For once Dorje is great in strategy but I havent seen him leading the kingdom or doing day to day work which requires in the kd. In Sanc it was Dorje and Megas doing strategy and deana/dark azn/slew(?) helping around.

You win as a kingdom, not as a alpha or pack leader!

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

Haha totally failed that offer, are you kidding me? What good would I do taking care of all your strategy. I would need flogger to take 5 seconds of his time to tell me the best setup for the next age when the changes get released to even stand a chance :D Jokes aside, I haven't ever asked anyone how the actual strategical math in this game works, I only know what I randomly pick up over time. I'd probably do well with at least a few lessons in strategy from the key figures to get me up to speed to even think about undertaking something like that.




Yes, this sounds very familiar :D

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If you got time and patience, I'll teach you :) I got no time to lead but do have time to teach a nub to not be nub and win my wars for me ;)

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

If you got time and patience, I'll teach you :) I got no time to lead but do have time to teach a nub to not be nub and win my wars for me ;)

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OK, I got one question then, why dorfs? :D

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

OK, I got one question then, why dorfs? :D

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Raze is one reason...oh, I have time.
Self spells are good defense.
Full 14 point elite.
Look at the unchained in my kingdom.
Build strat agility and low cost.

Wouldn't you just trad in war anyway?

That's a low blow editing it afterwards! :D
I don't think low costs are important in this meta, you don't even have to pay for science.

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

OK, I got one question then, why dorfs? :D

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Dwarf/Heretic.

1. High turtle-defense due to high def on elite and +1 def on def spec. Had we run avian or UD banks Panda's top would've been able to break most likely.
2. CS + WTs, especially if OOR is so potent.
3. MA + Heretic --> high resistance to MS.
4. Free rebuild has two advantages. Firstly, OOR razes in war don't do much. Secondly, it gives huge flexibility OOW to plan explores. This has allowed us to get our banks way bigger faster than the rest of the server even though we got blocked twice.

1. Avian has greater protection though, kind of mitigates that, too lazy to do the math. I have a feeling the reduced attack times give an edge here...
2. Yes, definitively looks good, GA WTs shouldn't be too strong either because of the easy rebuild (although most of the stealth would get burned on the same tick anyway against anyone decent), problem I have here is I don't think thieves are that strong this age to need extra protection against.
3. Don't know, guess so.
4. What you call blocking is actually what allowed you to set up these banks imo, warring these days is so good, no science build up time lost and you get to shift acres onto big provs then whore the smaller ones post war.

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

1. Avian has greater protection though, kind of mitigates that, too lazy to do the math. I have a feeling the reduced attack times give an edge here...
2. Yes, definitively looks good, GA WTs shouldn't be too strong either because of the easy rebuild (although most of the stealth would get burned on the same tick anyway against anyone decent), problem I have here is I don't think thieves are that strong this age to need extra protection against.
3. Don't know, guess so.
4. What you call blocking is actually what allowed you to set up these banks imo, warring these days is so good, no science build up time lost and you get to shift acres onto big provs then whore the smaller ones post war.

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Not if you lose the war :P