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Lol really....1 cast of MV Clearsight is gone so thats 3 mana you cost me. ooooh nooo, and high enough wpa to slow down a feary AT ALL, is gonna mean running 4-5+ raw wpa.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
Lets see my base was dwarf 11 leets 2 wpa v undead 10 leets 1.5 wpa, lets up the dwarf wpa, 8.5 leets 4.5 wpa, 10 leets 1.5 wpa. now were back to 77 opa dwarf v 120 opa undead...hrm
MV is 50% chance of success so that is not just 3% mana. Dwarves have stronger WTs (so it would still be quite effective after you MV clearsight off) and TGs, so the offense difference is a little closer than what you wrote before. Dwarf sages should be able to pull off 8+ mod wpa with around 3 raw WPA depending on science.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
Edit: Forgot to mention, honor. The dwarves will reach higher ranks than your undeads since they toss around fireballs and all.
Also, dont forget about the libraries the dwarves will be running (again depending on science so I won't get into that).
Also, keep in mind. The faeries this age are mystics. Not sages. They will not have as high mod WPA as last age, as such they're bound to have quite a few failed spells on these dwarf sages.
All valid points less the honor...if your hitting/being hit your loosing honor. You're still overestimating things for example 8+ mod on 3 raw is an insane amount of science. your talking about 2000+ bpa.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
Well, it would depend on libraries, and the way the science is allocated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
Science should be easy to get as a sage mid-age, by hitting all those faery mystics this age. Since, they won't have much science protection....probably.
good luck with that especially as a dwarf feary=unbrekableQuote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
Well, personally I'm one of those faeries this age. :OQuote:
Originally Posted by Persain
But a dwarf could opt to hit a faery around 15% smaller or so, and let gains science make up for the lower gains. Just have to over train elites a little.
Faeries were tough to break out of war for pumped up undeads last age.
Why would this age be any different?
Because they're mystics this age. I mentioned hitting smaller faeries anyhow. Shouldn't be hard. As mystics their DPA should be quite a bit lower than last age's sages.Quote:
Originally Posted by nooblet
Heck, I was doing learn attacks on faeries as an avian cleric hybrid last age lol.
Our fearies ran rogue last age still hit 150 dpa easily. Fought a sage with 170 dpa. you werent doing learns on decent fearies. And with lower nw leets for feary and higher for undead/orc feary will be truely unbreakable this age even the crappy ones..Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
150 DPA faeries would have fairly high networth. Last age whenever I decided to do some learns I would overbuild TGs and elites, no barracks, no banks. Hitting a faery 15% networth lower wouldn't be that hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
Dwarf/sage vs undead/warrior or tact.
You people are forgetting a huge thing...
DRAGONS
dwarf/sage -> undead with econ
undeads can probbaly fund 2 dragons after that they won't really have the funds anymore will take to long to fund the dragon to be worth it + needs to aid provinces.
dwarf/sages could possibly quite easyily fund 4 dragons.
And dwarf sages can quite easyily get -40% army losses
And dwarf sages will have higher BPA than undeads.
Not all undeads will have full elite army ( or what you gonna overgrow and than raze or try to pump op elite with training?
Good undeads mostly have around 85-90% leets rest offence specs for offence also to help not getting ambushed so fast.
And you are not running hostpitals on your undead/warriors/tact?
Nice some semi chains and 5 hitts already destroys your defence...
25 dwarf sages vs 25 undeads
Probbaly just semichain one half the rest you can fb+tornado+greeds
Also with landswaps etc undeads will sometime's have very low wt's for some time and dwarf sages can ns.
Also dwarf sages will be able to do riots on the undeads if the undeads will try that back they will fail allot :)
Dwarf sages have better econ and can control your econ better.
But ofcourse undeads can chain a bit better but your plague has no effect on sages ;)
and when a dwarf/sage gets chained his science mods skyrocket and that means the pop science helps a bit better against getting overpoped.
I saw a FA/Mystic last age with a good 150 dpa, and something like .75 defense per nw. Helped that he was duke...
Anyway this thread is devolving rapidly...
Dwarf has better economy in war than orc or undead? The two races that don't need economy to function in war? The two races that gain offense through land grabs? Meh. Take the economy staying power, I'll have the military staying power.
7 Day war (Feeling this will be most likely war length now when you encounter a stubborn kingdom) :Quote:
Originally Posted by dingy2
How does undead fund a dragon or kill a dragon? Fund one means less elites being trained, kill one means offense getting eaten up as 90% or undead use credits on off spec. Defense not growing means you'll be easily 4 x tappable.
A Dwarf. Can build land and use money saved to train ELITES, can use specs on pure Def Specs. +% Military gains + sage bonus means a 300 acre dwarf can +15-20% gains if the right science is in it.
Dwarves will rule in the long run. Undead + even orc won't be able to raise enough money / earn enough credits to stay afloat. 200% Wages? May be able to run them for first 48 hours, but how you going to keep that 200% when you make 0 gc a tick which will happen when you have dragon + greed + riots + fb hammered on you.
48 hours wars Orc/Undead >>> Dwarf
48+ Wars Dwarf >>> Undead/Orc
5 Elf / Mystic
5 Undead Warrior
15 Dwarf / Sage
Now that's a force. Shame My kingdom wouldn't run it.
You'll still need soldier aid. The credits would largely go to waste if you can only draft a tiny amount every tick as all the undeads will have very low peasantry eventually. You would also probably have to lower your wages as there probably won't be enough aid going around, and if there is, you're probably not funding your dragons.Quote:
Originally Posted by dingy2
Who trains leets during war?Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
wonder y if its as strong as you make it out to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
there are always solds floating around in war, and a well planned kd should never need to run out of solds/goldQuote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
Dwarves should be able to fireball down at least 10 undeads/orcs in the first day (well each dwarf should be able to fireball one orc/undead by itself if it has high enough WPA/mana at the start of the war, so its possible to fireball all but the chain targets). You have to take into account the rapid drop in BE in all those orcs/undeads. Hospitals and GS would also quickly become quite a bit weaker than the dwarf side due to the drop in BE. There shouldn't be enough soldiers floating around if you have almost all your orc/undeads stuck on under 2k peasants. There should also be more dragons coming from the dwarf side, so that would also weaken soldier production.Quote:
there are always solds floating around in war, and a well planned kd should never need to run out of solds/gold
Thats the exact reason u have support in your kd and dont run 25 undead/orcs :P.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
Just as an example last age last war of the age on ~50k acres i aided out about 50k solds.
Were you a faery?Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
A human bank could get fireballed down. (there would be lots of failures, but would be well worth it)
i train leets in war.
elf...and i wasnt a cow, wasnt even the largest prov in my kd, and it was only a 3 day warQuote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
Nvm, 3 day war would nullify what I was thinking of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
...lol and thats just 1 prov and what i drafted/aided. At one point i got aided 22000 solds (didnt count that in my 50k calc) after our top hitter got chained. Solds should never be an issue if u know how to protect them. And now that clearc gets solds and undead gets animate dead its only going to be more solds in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
Back on topic though, PLAGUE....
Faeries could still run NS sprees on elves to kill off soldiers though. Clear sight and watch towers would cause some failures, but if you got a fair amount of soldiers they would still go after you....maybe. Unless of course your aiding out most of the soldiers every tick or every few ticks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
I wouldn't have been aided a ton of solds if i was inactive. Could also send 1k solds to 20 people, fearies cant ns them all :PQuote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
As for drafting its not hard to log in every 4 hours or so and aid out what your drafted....did loose a few 1000 to ns during work.
True. :OQuote:
Originally Posted by Persain
activity vice aid/coordination solves alot of the issues you've mentioned, and various kd mixes (dwarf for example) requires hitter support. But as far as pure 1v1ing at the bottom chained size where aid its easy to ignor plague is a god send to an undead who is hitting/getting hit 8+ times ever 12 hoursQuote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
Well if I got to choose I would run a mix of dwarf/sages, warriors, and tacticians. Tacticians for the intel, warriors for their extra general. (for deep chaining) The tacticians and warriors would mainly toss fireballs at only the lowest WPA opponents. I would want all dwarves and a few faeries, as I feel mixing in orcs or undeads would cause the orcs to stick out as prime chain targets (a few undeads might be worth mixing in to spread plague though), since they would have the weakest GS/hospitals in the kingdom, making them prime chain targets. So 21-22 dwarfs and 3-4 faeries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
Builds would be different for each personality, such as the sages running more banks, the warriors/tacticians running more gs/hospitals, etc.
The warriors/tacticians should be running around 5-6 mod wpa and 24/7 shield. The sages should have around 8 mod wpa, give or take depending on science and raw wpa. They should all have decent protection against fireballs, since faeries will have much lower mod wpa this age, so soldiers shouldn't be much of an issue.
well take a look at simians, not sure of their pers choice but its that dwarf/feary mix so the concept isn't wrong....just situational and science dependent. As far as waring outside the top 10 goes that setup is very beatable if you built your kd right.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
As I'd like to think that many kds could deal with it, i'll simply note that even bad war planning can tell you that by the time
even a non non-sage feary should be sitting on 15 is mod wpa...just destroying the dwarf.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
The faeries would in general be higher up in networth than the dwarves, so if you factor in networth difference there would still be a fair amount of failures on the dwarves with 8 mod wpa + magic shield. Of course that is if the faery is larger, but if the faery was smaller then it would be open up to massacres.Quote:
even a non non-sage feary should be sitting on 15 is mod wpa...just destroying the dwarf.
You also have to consider mana. The faeries are likely to fail quite a lot of meteors on these dwarves. They won't have much mana to spare on fireballs.
like i said not gonna argue all the points, but if your dwarf sage isnt sitting at the top nw like the fearies they wont be banking..Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
If I wanted dwarves for banking they would be merchants. Just saying that the sages would be running more banks than the other dwarves, since warriors and tacts will be amongst the first to be chained, while the sages would be staying higher up untouched longer, and as such would contribute more to the kingdom economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
which is where they get fireballed....Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
If they have the mana. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
Priority would usually go to meteors first, then greeds, then fireballs. I don't think they'll have the mana to spare on 7-8 sages...........
and dwarf/sages can kidnap back on ofcourse easy targets and in war there are mostly 1-2 target of oppertunities where you kidnap with small losses to thieves
again depends on the kd mix....not ALL fearies are mystic, as well econ wars are important...btw fireball>greed if a kd is trying to build a bank.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazingChicken
All the dwarves are A/ms or A/Ms to an extent. There would be lots of failures on meteors alone, and that is where a great deal of mana will be lost, especially on the sages. You would probably need 3 faery mystics if you want 24/7 meteors on a kingdom full of A/m|A/Ms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
True about the fireball part though.
Hmmm. The every age whine thread about plague and the RNG got hijacked for the undead vs. orcs discussion.
April 6 of YR0 Forces from Undead Enemy ambushed one of our armies. They recaptured 46 acres from our army! We lost 3 Strongarms and 134 Brutes in this battle. It appears we have contracted The Plague!
May 7 of YR0 The plague has finally been swept away from our lands!
You think you had it bad LP, remember when I, as a halfling in two different wars had the plague for over 90% of the wars even though I burned all my spare mana on NB? Not impressed? Does it help that neither kingdom had any undeads. Yes, I got the plague (indirectly) from my own kingdom mates so much I couldn't get rid of it. With friends like these... :p
On a happier note, I'm sage this age, caught plague (for no effect) and passed it on to an enemy. Win :D