bah, u wouldnt know fun if it bit u in the assQuote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
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bah, u wouldnt know fun if it bit u in the assQuote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
Oi! Finally something happening (whatever this is). As I've recommended years ago, "age of vendetta" (LINk
Carry on. Carry on.
All I have to say is I wish HoH had warred AMA the 2nd time:P God that was a long 3 weeks!
Also if every KD has a deal with rage that if you notice them rage will farm them, then why not notice 2 at once:P surely rage cant farm them all!
guess thats 2 things :P
Why are you guys airing your dirty laundry publicly. This is embarrassing!
Its funny but this "cf us or we will farm out" tactic was used for first time this age from Rage ABS vs AMA early on age from ASF. He didunt told it direct but context was pure same.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin
[18:08] <AquaSeaFoam> Hey
[18:11] <Elit> hi
[18:12] <AquaSeaFoam> I was wondering if you wanted to work out a new cf deal with Rage that better lets you focus on preparing for sanc without anyone else to worry about
[18:15] <Elit> i dont mind making better deal with rage but there is few other kds around and when picture is more clear we can make new one if need
[18:16] <AquaSeaFoam> what more needs to clear up for you?
[18:21] <Elit> few kds in top 10 can start fight, there is sanc and X, its can force me to go or not go after another kd for gain land too if sanc gain alot.
[18:22] <AquaSeaFoam> i don't think sanc will gain much more than you can just randoming and exploring and pumping and the pumping route leaves you better prepared for later
[18:23] <AquaSeaFoam> i think if you and us were to fight, it'd just hand sanc the age
[18:24] <Elit> tbh sanc have best chances to win age, they have very strong war setup
[18:25] <Elit> but look like did bad choice to wave X
[18:25] <AquaSeaFoam> yeah
[18:25] <Elit> they can gain more from randoms
[18:25] <AquaSeaFoam> if you can heavy pump i think you'd have a chance against them later
[18:25] <AquaSeaFoam> need good saci
[18:25] <AquaSeaFoam> sci
[18:25] <AquaSeaFoam> sucks for undead a bit, but still best you can do
[18:26] <AquaSeaFoam> hafling though especially need sci to compete vs humans later
[18:26] <Elit> its true
[18:27] <Elit> but we can rob with halfers
[18:27] <Elit> so income is not big problem
[18:27] <Elit> and get sci
[18:27] <AquaSeaFoam> yeah, as long as you match human sci
[18:28] <Elit> sci are important
[18:29] <Elit> but you can pump it better from all in server :)
[18:29] <AquaSeaFoam> yeah, any thought on a deal that is helpful to you?
[18:30] <AquaSeaFoam> i'm guessing sacn wouldn't agree to war us later, but we could ask
[18:30] <Elit> if rage and sanc war this can change utopia for sure :)
[18:31] <Elit> if none wave you oow
[18:31] <Elit> there is alot abs drama in forum
[18:32] <Elit> not sure why its abs when hoh hit simians :P
[18:32] <AquaSeaFoam> ok, well i will see what can be arranged in abs. if sanc agrees to war us, then maybe we'll come back to you for a new deal
[18:33] <AquaSeaFoam> yesterday, hoh agreed to me they made a mistake and said they'd talk to anri and try and work something out. i'm not sur ewhat happened after since i had along flight
[18:33] <Elit> i think its not hard to setle anri and hoh all
[18:33] <Elit> if both sidesd talk
[18:33] <Elit> hoh made mistake to hit before cats accept cf
[18:34] <AquaSeaFoam> yeah
[18:34] <Elit> so its look bad for all kds
[18:34] <Elit> but they admit his mistake
[18:34] <Elit> and every one make mistakes
[18:34] <Elit> if you want to war sanc you better get in range for begin :P
[18:35] <Elit> and put some sci or its wont be much fun for you :D
[18:35] <AquaSeaFoam> true. it'd be easier for us to prepare for sanc i guess if we had a longer cf with you
[18:35] <AquaSeaFoam> but nothing is set with sanc yet anyway
[18:38] <Elit> i dont want to be mean but this convo is going to wrong direction, If we keep it you can end asking me to talk dorje for cf you :)
[18:38] <AquaSeaFoam> haha
[18:40] <AquaSeaFoam> ok, anyway, we wish you a good fair shot at #1 and don't want to interfere in your chances there with sanc. if sanc likes the idea of warring us, then maybe i'll ask you for a new deal so we can prepare for them better
[18:41] <Elit> if you look for war so much in rush i dont mind to war you too
[18:41] <Elit> keep it for option if sanc refuse
[18:41] <AquaSeaFoam> ok. if we want to war, we'd want to prepare first, not rush into one
[18:42] <Elit> guess you need to tell it pulse
[18:42] <Elit> if they wont come after you again
[18:43] <AquaSeaFoam> i don't think pulse is in very good position to come after us agian for a while unless they want to lose
[18:44] <Elit> its clear they will lossed
[18:44] <Elit> but its hard to predict flogger moves
==================
Bring his idea to war with Sanctuary when he propose CF from AMA clear show his intention to farm out if we refuse cf rage. After Rage got CF ASF never come to discus with me again his possible war with Sanctuary :)
Elit, you already know that there was no "farm out" intention at all and you edited out parts of the logs you posted. You had been posting in the forum how Abs should war other Abs. We just got out of war with beastblood and were much smaller than you or Sanc but had pool. I proposed to you that there was a possibility that us and sanc could agree on a mid age war while our setups were comparable and that if you liked this idea of Abs warring Abs, then I could see if I could set it up and if so I'd need a cf with you to prepare. If you didn't like the idea of Abs warring Abs, then you obviously had the power to block it by vulturing us like you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Never was there any threat, implied or otherwise, that we'd farm out to sanc if you didn't cf us. That's just ridiculous. Never once was that threatened yet you're such a desperate liar that you make **** up right out of thin air.
*munches on popcorn*
They're not laughing with you, they're laughing at you.Quote:
Originally Posted by some guy
That's not true. I thought your flag stealing video was fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binar
Oh Boy! Allow me to respond :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin
As you're a HoH player you can confirm all of what I have to say about HoH. You robbed us, then complained when we robbed you back. You hit us, then complained when we hit you back.
We tried to talk about a CF, but your side did not come to the party, even deleting unread messages. Heres the last diplomatic message sent, still unread. http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6153/capturehfc.png
Your players then complained to me that I refused to CF you like a big bully.
You then hit us into BOTH of our hostiles this age, and complained to me when we RETALLED you out of those hostiles ;)
we hit you 3 times BEFORE you tagged hostile with BB, in retaliation for more stealing. No contact was attempted with me. After you tagged, we hit you 1 more time, still no contact is made with me.
If you wan't to bring up our interactions this age, then I'm happy to show that you're living up to your tag of HaLL.
next..
Pulled out of any lost bets recently? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
I don't know who' complained spike, it certainly wasn't me...kindly let me know who it was and I'll address it with council. I was happy with your hits on us before hostile, all is fair in love and war. I personally have been stealing from your faeries all age, you steal or hit back, no worries there whatsoever. You did 1 hit into our hostile, AFTER we tagged...and going on the assumption that you have been hitting 1/2 times a day, its logical to assume it will continue, hence my comment. Can you show proof we hit into one of your hostiles? if so, we will gladly arrange for reparations. No need to get your panties in a knot i stated a simple fact "You hit into our hostile", that was correct and true. I said nothing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikey
Proof was provided when it happened. There is no need for me to prove it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin
Fact is you bring up my kingdom in this thread and say "we'll get ours". As it turns out you're just getting yours. Don't try and act the innocent party and don't try and claim that you merely commented in passing.
As you have not respected our hostiles this age we will not respect yours. If you want to see us leave you alone you should send someone to actually negotiate a CF, rather then the rubbish talks and childish antics we got last time I received contact. That's all the discussion you'll get from me here.
Cool story..."I provided proof so I don't need to do it again".
Err...I haven't seen or received proof, I asked nicely for it and said I would fix it if it was provided.
Here's me making an effort and you saying..."nah cbf...you need to make an effort". What am I doing now?
Derp derp...
Don't be silly. I provided proof to your leadership in game. I am not going to keep logs forever, why would I? You need to work on your communication if you haven't seen any proof. Either way its not my problem. If you don't want to CF thats fine by us.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin
Don't act so surprised when there are consequences for your actions. You can choose to play this game anyway you like, but if you treat people with disrespect you should not expect any favours from them later.
I said I'd look into it if you had anything to show me, if you have provided the effort you should have it in your outbox, all you showed me is a screenshot of titles of messages but nothing as to what they say, if you look at it from my perspective, that isn't much proof of anything you've said. Happy to talk about and fix whatever issues you have...in fact, invited it. Ball is in your court now not mine mate. My province is Alpha Uniform Sierra or you can find me in #tactics in irc.
Yes my screenshot shows your side had no interest in talking diplo as they deleted messages. That is the intention of the picture and shows it nicely. I never attempted to share your messages publicly.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamin
for your records though, as you seem incapable of communicating with your own kingdom:
Papa Romeo Oscar (HoH) invaded Bake for 45 to 55 mins (us) and captured 287 acres of land.
Charlie November Yankee (HoH) invaded 1 teaspoon baking powder (us) and captured 178 acres of land.
may, yr6. We were actively hostile to dead proets at the time, I'm sure they're able to confirm. We were also tagged.
We will continue to hit until you approach us to CF.
Maybe i miss read this some how but this seemed like a HoH player complaining about the play of ABS... if i am wrong than forgive me....
BUT you all have played along soooooooo well with ABS that pretty much EVERYONE has considered you part of the alliance for quite some time now and you have for sure prospered from the arrangement. if you feel like your alliance is treating you unfairly bring it up privately with them. to me this just looks like an attempts by ABS/hoh management to take some of the recent heat off their alliance by fainting divides that don't really exist. *Yawn*
it's not easy talking to abs management privately. they're like the ents from the lord of the rings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evillone
This is the most ridiculous derailing of a thread I've seen in a while. You Americans are funny.
back on topic:
HoH: did you ever think you were equal allies with the rest of ABS? of course they will box you out when they can.
Some days I even surprise myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalanche
Its all part from Proteus master plan. So far its not hard for me to see his moves in advance so i'm going to share it now:P
EOA Havoc is going to wave HoH and Rage is going to "retal" for it and wave Havoc with WS. This way Rage can win and put all blame on goodz :P
When I checked a bit ago, Rage had a bit more land and HoH a bit more nw. Have they been attacking each other? If not, they are still in an alliance. Last I read in the forum, HoH was saying they were Absalom. Are you or are you not Absalom, Hoh? You've been all age long.
Edit: Now Rage has a bit more nw too.
The off topic conversation has been aborted. Stay on topic or start a new thread on the appropriate board.
I agree with all this part. From outside, it is clear to see that all those Agreements were no good at all for the kingdoms that signed them. No agreement! War all! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by KyGal
Wow, many times? I really have to reevaulate myself... I apologize to Jamin all the time for snapping and being *****y, to which he says "You weren't"... I give more cf's, and am by far the crappiest diplomat in Utopia. It costs HoH a lot... But there were times this age when I did behave as a prick, I guess you could say...Quote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
1) First, when we refused to cf BeastBlood, unless they promised not to back to back war Rage, like they did last age
2) Again, when we forced AMA to cf Rage before we would give them a cf.
3) Again, we did wrong by Simians. But we apologized and we corrected that. And now Anri and Jamin are BFF's... (Scary thought)
Now, some issues that came up that perhaps I thought I was being nice, but wasn't?
4)We noticed Legacy, when they went crying to ABS like little girls, I reinstated that cf.
5) Melee, we noticed, then an hour later, Beast Blood noticed. I knew Melee wanted a final real war, and we weren't in war range. So I reinstated that notice to allow them to have a real war.
6) Cats, we hostiled with them, slowing our age. But the point was we were sick of them robbing us and refusing to cf. Although Elurin and I disagree on if we asked for a cf or not. But I know we have every age, so perhaps I hadn't bothered to this age.
7) We hostile warred Simians, that was their own choosing. We certainly didn't instigate it. But as Pete said, we don't back down either.
8) There was a kd we waved, twice... They never once asked for a cf until after that 2nd wave. But in those terms, I insisted on a cf for a non allied KD that had been taking mutliple hostiles for a week. So I guess that KD can say we were pricks for forcing them to cf another
9) There was an incident early age, where 1 of our guys hit Ezzerland... I suppose we were mean there. But I apologized, wartague and Ezzerland hugged it out.
The only other things that come to mind are the rare randoms we make into hostiles. Every KD does that. But if it helps you sleep better to call us pricks, then by all means. Hell if my 'pussy cat' reputation couldn't use a nice boost.
In the past 4, maybe 5 ages, we have fought our own battles. When someone breaks a deal with us, we kill that province without help. We don't eat waves. We don't back down from fights. And we are even willing to stunt our own growth to prove a point to those who think they can walk all over us... That's just who we are.
I'd be lying if I said the crown wasn't important. But it isn't the most important thing in this game. The people are. That's why we try to be fair with everyone and why we don't make enemies at every turn, because sometimes, friends are nice to have...
Only reason I can think that we would ever eave how is if they broke an eoa nap with us. It seems very unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Seems they could wave you maybe elit ;)
makes how pissy u were about dealing with me a bit less intolerable now huh...at least i made it clear i wanted a fair fight and was just gonna retal war if we couldn't put up a real battle. But either way i find it kinda funny though as this type of "Blackmail" is exactly what ends up happening when there is no competition in the top, It just took time to figure out its a good strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by KyGal
Get some real competition and then maybe things things wont happen. But when Proteus announces that my "plan" to farm is "wont stand" what do u expect kds are going to do. The best idea is to purposely hurt your when u attack them via forcing ABS to double team and feeding acres to your closest competitor. Either that or mass reset. Next time u want acres kygal try feeding off of havoc.Quote:
Originally Posted by KyGal
FYI
it was 3500-4500 when my kd took your intell last age. you only had 4-5 people under 3500 and they were all recent explores.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Pete
lol, these "blackmail" deals are a really wonderful consequence of alliances not caring about their allies.
If Abs+HoH really wanted to put a stop to these blackmail threats, they could simply identify the kds that are doing it, and gangbang them. Just a set a date, have everyone jump on and just obliterate them with 4 kds. Viola, threat neutralized.
However, that will never happen, because one of them is always in a position to benefit from such a deal, so why would they want to eliminate such a good thing? HoH even won a crown as a result of such things.
You know I <3 u kygal, but mean people and backstabbing and dirty play are part of the game, especially at the top. Making this thread won't accomplish anything. It won't stop blackmailing, in fact it will prolly promote it to kds that didn't think of doing that. Actions speak louder than words. If you want to do something about it, do something about it. I suggest HoH notices rage :)
Silly Palem...
Noticing rage wouldn't benefit HoH. Noticing sanc/havoc might get a little further, guess it depends on how pumped hoh is. But hoh can't do that. If they noticed one kd, they'd be multi-hostiled. Instead, all they can do is vent.
These blackmail deals are nothing imo. Every kingdom in the top makes **** deals like this every day. Just right now we call them notice deals.
If they get multi-hostiled they'll really have something to start a forum thread to vent about. I don't think Abs could afford to look that bad. The MA debacle was bad enough, but blatantly multi-hostiling your own ally/former ally would unquestionably put Abs as the bottom of the barrel in every utopians eyes. It would most definitely cost them crowns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezzerland
I think HoH could beat Rage if they actually warred, but it was just a 2 day slugfest and not a real war, Rage would definitely win out.
You got this part all wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Multi-hostiling HoH would make Abs look good?
Do you think that multi-hostiling will change how people already view Abs?
Kygal,
It seems like you feel entitled to win and that Rage and others should not try and outgrow you because in your mind you "deserve to win". You've had our backs just like we've always had your backs but that doesn't mean we don't have a right to try and win just like in the past when you were able to pass Rage when we were #1 when you farmed Simians. All kingdoms should try and win and you can't expect Rage to just let you win when you wouldn't do the same for us.
Yes, you had our backs there and it's appreciated, just like we've often had your backs. Certainly us fighting Beastblood (who was the strongest competition at the time) 5x in a row from last age to this age was helpful to our allies. In the end, you still did let them fight us 5x in a row though and after the 5th time they finally cf'd us without any influence from you. But the thought still counts and was appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by KyGal
I'm not aware of this, but if it is the case it did not work at all since we had to give AMA 2 free waves and they forced us into an eoa NAP that we didn't want when they caught us out of our beastblood war.Quote:
Originally Posted by KyGal
I'm not clear on why you chose to reinstate your cf, but I told them they had to deal with you 1v1 however they saw best and Rage would not interfere so however you did deal with them was by your own choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by KyGal
Convenient how you leave out the part about you choosing to instead go after Mansoor to block Rage from fighting them. It'd have been hard for you to fight Mansoor and Melee both at the same time to block Rage from both.Quote:
Originally Posted by KyGal
You've been doing all you can to gain land wherever you can and to block Rage from gaining land as best as you can. Rage is doing the same as you. It's just completion. Rage admittedly has more advantages than you by having so much sci. It's hard to retal war against a kingdom with 50%+ war sci, so it's easier for us to come out ahead in our fights. We also had a spread that was positioned better for growth when we were smaller. The age isn't over and you still might win if your move on beastblood pays off. Time will tell.
Good luck.
Eh...Palem, not sure it'd cost them crowns, make them look anyworse thean they are or even be a blatant multi hostile if HoH tried to notice. The spin factory of ABS could probably convince a few that HoH deal broke, and its not like any anti-X alliance is gonna work even if HoH is willing to champion it. Either way though as i see it ABS can do whatever they want and you're gonna have a hard time countering them because they are good. Its not like dealing with strippers where u can simply be bigger than them or better skill wise or even that you have 1/2 the kds in the 15-75 nw range that have had issues with them over the ages and "enough" kd willing to act.
I view intentional farm-out to a "friendly" ABS kd as good strategy, why fight back w/razes if im gonna lose acres anyway, rather feed a kd u like and be done in 24-48 hours. give it an age or two and someone will figure out how to deal with it. More than likely u'll just lose a lot of "real" notice deals, and some kds get cf's based on goodwill while others get date+48 hour deals as a way to avoid the whole thing..
Yes. I think I have a mostly fair, unbiased opinion of Abs and their doings. I don't remember any instance in recent Utopia where Abs has truly powerplayed someone unprovoked. The MA thing was a big ordeal, but a large part of the blame falls on Elit. The only other recent Abs powerplaying thing that I can remember was Simians getting Doubled by Sanctuary after their triple notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
If HoH notices Rage, there's no excuse for Abs to fall back on (assuming HoH doesn't have an EoA CF) for a clear multi hostile. HoH notices a kd who isn't hostile with anyone else. Fair is fair.
Next age I wouldn't write off a serious anti-abs push.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
On second thought, I've reconsidered HoH's answer.
Farm out to Simians while Anri is away.
Simians gets their crown. Anri gets no credit. Abs doesn't crown. Everybody wins :D
Just to clarify, Rage and HOH have an EOA cf, however that could be changed if both sides agreed. Rage has offered to war HOH if they wanted but HOH is not interested. We don't blame them for not wanting to fight since we have the stronger late age setup and it wouldn't be fair.
LoL @ giving Anri-less simians a win.
Yea Palem there's a serious anti-abs push but it'll be gone in an age or two, with maybe an alliance war going onto the books. Thing is there's no way for an alliance to last as anti-X because you define yourself on being against X. What do u do once u win? do it again, and again? What if u lose try again, just to lose again? Without game mechanisms changes to make war after war after war the best way to crown theres not gonna be a lasting change in top play. The kds that are capable of beating ABS like PewPew (vulture whatever that kind a stuff is fun) just done enjoy pump mode even if its as the best way to win.
BTW you tell me there’s going to be an alliance war next age I sign my kd up ..but that’s not really the point right. The point is several kds found out how to counter the “I shall feed on you” strategy by saying well “I shall farm out by hitting your ally” or “my cf with your ally says they get equal acres” and HoH is pissy. Well all I have to say is good, only took 5-6 ages of almost no race changes (5->4 spec didn’t drastically alter the races) for a new top “meta” to form and I laugh at its op-ness.
this is all new to people?