Live Twitch Broadcast - June 1, 2017 - Comments

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Originally Posted by Shrinky

Yes, it has but not as an announcement but as a reply to some random thread. My point is, more people would see it if it was mentioned in an announcement rather than as a reply in some thread.

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the announcement for the test forum was on the utopia "Game Update" area where they make all announcements. thats how i saw/herd about it.

You're going about this all wrong. Let's first list the facts:

1. There is a slack channel in which (at first) mostly established players had access to.
2. This individual did NOT get the information --> this means it was simply not communicated properly/good enough. Why not good enough --> well he didn't read it, hence it wasn't good enough.
3. You here have a frustrated player/customer who thinks that he's not being taken seriously by those in charge of the game --> now let's start by taking this comment VERY VERY seriously.

To expand on point 3, I know EXACTLY what this person is referring to because I've felt the same exclusion when I first started making waves in the community. Now, I will agree that significant improvements have been made, but that doesn't disprove the FACT that a significant amount of customers feel excluded/alienated from the decision-making processes.

It would be great to hear how the Devs are going to address this.

Stuff so serious.
Everyone needs to calm down, relax, breathe :)
Thanks :P

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Originally Posted by Persain

the announcement for the test forum was on the utopia "Game Update" area where they make all announcements. thats how i saw/herd about it.

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Forgot about that. Yes it was on throne for a coupe of weeks?

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Forgot about that. Yes it was on throne for a coupe of weeks?

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maybe a log of "old announcements/news/game updates" for people not as active would be a good idea.

How are you going to make Utopia great again?

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Originally Posted by Deana

I really like what you are doing with the game and its great to see how inspired you seem (had to say something nice to counter the rest) However, I hace concerns about how accessible y'all are. Mehul was like some Utopia god that seemed to ignore us and make changes that we just had to deal with. He didn't come down and hang out with us mortals. Look at what happened to Jesus...

Another concern I have is censorship. Be careful with it please. Understandably people at work dont want to have banners of naked women performing fellatio (sorry about that) popping up. But renaming every province name that might offend every prudish, sjw, tree hugger out there to a Disney character concerns me. Ok, maybe no one needs to know that Devolution doesn't particularly enjoy participating in lesbian activities but does that make the word lesbian taboo enough to need changing to a disney movie? I just tried to watch Rogue One last night and was far more offended than I would have been seeing tbe word lesbian.

Also, still nothing to let game skimmers know the game resets everything every 3 months.

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+1 cause you mentioned the devo theme!

Add a mute button of sorts when people complain to much. Then again, most of the server would be silenced.

I wonder if it's out of the question to have a throwback age? Like randomly select an historical age and use the mechanics of said age. I know alot of folks miss dark elf so it could help there. If gen server is being considered then this could be the perfect platform.

Is there a transcript? Or a (audio) recording?

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Originally Posted by Attero

I wonder if it's out of the question to have a throwback age? Like randomly select an historical age and use the mechanics of said age. I know alot of folks miss dark elf so it could help there. If gen server is being considered then this could be the perfect platform.

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I think that would be a whole lot of work because I doubt anybody went and saved the game state of every age.

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Originally Posted by Elldallan

I think that would be a whole lot of work because I doubt anybody went and saved the game state of every age.

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We actually have the historic code from every age since S&B took over in a versioning system, so reverting to any of them would be 'fairly' easy.

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Originally Posted by JeffT

We actually have the historic code from every age since S&B took over in a versioning system, so reverting to any of them would be 'fairly' easy.

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Interesting to know :)

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Originally Posted by Nim

Is there a transcript? Or a (audio) recording?

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There will be, yes. I will be uploading the broadcast to YouTube at some point tomorrow evening - expect it approx. 24h from now.

In the meantime there's this but it will eventually disappear: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/148777041?t=9m20s

Thanks!

YouTube URL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kn4...3gBitEkaKWs24Y

1) The test server was never exclusive to 'established' players. It was exclusive to MUGA to test code changes so we could be confident in applying code changes to the live server. Once we needed testing of mechanics which required more than 3 accounts running, we began to invite people that we knew to be adept at finding bugs/problems with the changes we had made. As requirements broadened we opened more channels to begin inviting other people, all along the requirement remains that anyone who wishes to join the testing must join the Slack group; not because we want it limited to a private group, but because the test environment is not stable and very easily can become dangerous and harmful to any testers LIVE server account. In order to minimize the damage that could be done to live accounts we have purposely kept the test environment in it's current state not publicly advertised on the forums for the entire server to join freely.
2) The test environment information was purposely not communicated to the entire server for the reasons mentioned above.
3) I don't quite understand the point at all about how someone doesn't feel taken seriously. There is an entire forum dedicated to suggestions that all the developers read. Are you looking for a personalized note to every suggestion that explains our thoughts regarding it? Or a blanket statement anytime a suggestion is read so that everyone now feels like they're just seeing automated replies?

As for people feeling like they aren't involved in the decision making process, there's only 4 people involved in the decision making process. That's how it is, that's how it will remain. Again, there is a forum dedicated to conveying ideas and suggestions which are taken into account during the decision making process. The only people other than the developers who influenced this ages changes directly was the Guide team. In my announcement post, if you read it, I stated that contributors would have the possibility of influencing age changes, and they did, as was also mentioned in the Proposed Changes post for Age 72.

Bart - Do not attempt to mislead the public by stating inaccurate details to initiate public outcry, I will not tolerate this and I will not debate this

Did anyone mention that DavidC eats puppies and dislikes cat videos on you tube?

/me waits for the public outcry

I'm a little over an hour (near the end of the "New Features" section) into the YouTube video (I hadn't really considered being there during the livestream, and I went to bed very early last night) and I really like it. The dedication is obvious. Parts seems a little stilted (delays between questions being asked, an irrelevant lack of jokes) but the unmissable trend is how much you all care about and work towards the game. I'm impressed, and it's very nice to see a human aspect to the people who develop and run the game. I'd not seen that before. I also think the host is excellent and engaging. There are virtually no instances of any video I'd be interested in watching that lasted for over 2 hours, and this may have accomplished that feat. Perhaps it represents my enjoyment of this game, but there's definitely credit due for the content of the conversation and the dedication all four of you (and indirectly, countless others) put towards this game.

It's annoying that Bishop is from the west of Ireland. I was convinced I was the only Irishperson still left.
And I've always pronounced Mehul as Mee-hull.

Thank you for this, and thank you for all your work.

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Originally Posted by Calya

I'm a little over an hour (near the end of the "New Features" section) into the YouTube video (I hadn't really considered being there during the livestream, and I went to bed very early last night) and I really like it. The dedication is obvious. Parts seems a little stilted (delays between questions being asked, an irrelevant lack of jokes) but the unmissable trend is how much you all care about and work towards the game. I'm impressed, and it's very nice to see a human aspect to the people who develop and run the game. I'd not seen that before. I also think the host is excellent and engaging. There are virtually no instances of any video I'd be interested in watching that lasted for over 2 hours, and this may have accomplished that feat. Perhaps it represents my enjoyment of this game, but there's definitely credit due for the content of the conversation and the dedication all four of you (and indirectly, countless others) put towards this game.

It's annoying that Bishop is from the west of Ireland. I was convinced I was the only Irishperson still left.
And I've always pronounced Mehul as Mee-hull.

Thank you for this, and thank you for all your work.

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<3 <3 <3

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Originally Posted by miilits

How are you going to make Utopia great again?

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They're going to add me to their team. They just need to find a good reason and timing to do so.

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Originally Posted by Calya

It's annoying that Bishop is from the west of Ireland. I was convinced I was the only Irishperson still left.
And I've always pronounced Mehul as Mee-hull.

Thank you for this, and thank you for all your work.

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Where are you from?

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

They're going to add me to their team. They just need to find a good reason and timing to do so.

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Originally Posted by DavidC

1) Bart - Do not attempt to mislead the public by stating inaccurate details to initiate public outcry, I will not tolerate this and I will not debate this

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Bart never learns. :(

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Originally Posted by JoRoSaR

There will be, yes. I will be uploading the broadcast to YouTube at some point tomorrow evening - expect it approx. 24h from now.

In the meantime there's this but it will eventually disappear: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/148777041?t=9m20s

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Joro, you have a good voice for online commenting. Did you consider casting/commenting on cs:go ?

I think hes a caster for SC2 if im not mistaken.

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

maybe a log of "old announcements/news/game updates" for people not as active would be a good idea.

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For me it was a matter of sinking in. I saw it but had my attention on other things.

Test server thing; I'd be great for that since I'm not competing as a way of life. But I boast solid activity and virtual vacuum results since I'm not in any circles that have strategic bias.

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Originally Posted by MrCurious

Joro, you have a good voice for online commenting. Did you consider casting/commenting on cs:go ?

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I cast StarCraft II and Overwatch, and host Esports events here and there - have done a few DreamHacks and IEMs in the past, and I love it :)

Amusingly I used to be a competitive CS1.5 (yes, 1.5!!) player back in the day. Nowadays, however, there are about 20-30 super solid ridiculously good CS commentators and I enjoy their work - trying to also become 'one of them' while holding down a full time job would be awesome, but perhaps unrealistic. :)

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Originally Posted by Korp

Bart never learns. :(

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It's not an inaccurate statement. It's just a matter of time.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Where are you from?

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Originally Ranelagh, but I'm a dirty northsider now.
Dublin. I'm from Dublin.

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Originally Posted by Calya

Originally Ranelagh, but I'm a dirty northsider now.
Dublin. I'm from Dublin.

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http://rs951.pbsrc.com/albums/ad360/...Monty.gif~c200

And that is how Utopia became Irish :(

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

You're going about this all wrong. Let's first list the facts:

1. There is a slack channel in which (at first) mostly established players had access to.
2. This individual did NOT get the information --> this means it was simply not communicated properly/good enough. Why not good enough --> well he didn't read it, hence it wasn't good enough.
3. You here have a frustrated player/customer who thinks that he's not being taken seriously by those in charge of the game --> now let's start by taking this comment VERY VERY seriously.

To expand on point 3, I know EXACTLY what this person is referring to because I've felt the same exclusion when I first started making waves in the community. Now, I will agree that significant improvements have been made, but that doesn't disprove the FACT that a significant amount of customers feel excluded/alienated from the decision-making processes.

It would be great to hear how the Devs are going to address this.

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I don't often agree with Bart, but as to point 1 I know that the test server was open to select players (or through some other means of allocation I am not aware of). While I think that this is essential to work out bugs etc, it's unfair to have certain strata of the community know ahead of time what works and what doesn't. Half my decisions this age were made from leaked beta testers information. While I am not going to chop down the devs here like Bart is, he does have a point to make about access. I proposed elsewhere that testing could be given to every kd OR maybe the top 25 kds as an option pre age so they can both help, and be aware of the changes.

Again, there have been good developments, but to say that this is an unbiased community in which we are all equals is incorrect. Every age is the "age of nepotism" as far as I am concerned. Many great voices in this community go unheard - (like Attero) etc, and then the loudest (bart), or the established (faceless men) seem to be the most rewarded.

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Originally Posted by joeblogs

I don't often agree with Bart, but as to point 1 I know that the test server was open to select players (or through some other means of allocation I am not aware of). While I think that this is essential to work out bugs etc, it's unfair to have certain strata of the community know ahead of time what works and what doesn't. Half my decisions this age were made from leaked beta testers information. While I am not going to chop down the devs here like Bart is, he does have a point to make about access. I proposed elsewhere that testing could be given to every kd OR maybe the top 25 kds as an option pre age so they can both help, and be aware of the changes.

Again, there have been good developments, but to say that this is an unbiased community in which we are all equals is incorrect. Every age is the "age of nepotism" as far as I am concerned. Many great voices in this community go unheard - (like Attero) etc, and then the loudest (bart), or the established (faceless men) seem to be the most rewarded.

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The test group is available to everyone. It has been linked in the message of the day (which everyone gets when they login to utopia), on IRC, distributed via munkbot, and here in the forums. All anyone needs to do is ask. If you don't pay attention to any of those channels, it becomes a lot harder. What would you want us to do, email everyone?

The vast majority of formulas used in the test server have been altered, or new formulas are not implemented until after testing for functionality is complete.

And worth pointing out that the explore pool numbers were posted on the forums and in the changes thread before the age started specifically because they were first tested on the testing server, so that testers wouldn't have an unfair advantage knowing those details

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Originally Posted by JeffT

The test group is available to everyone. It has been linked in the message of the day (which everyone gets when they login to utopia), on IRC, distributed via munkbot, and here in the forums. All anyone needs to do is ask. If you don't pay attention to any of those channels, it becomes a lot harder. What would you want us to do, email everyone?

The vast majority of formulas used in the test server have been altered, or new formulas are not implemented until after testing for functionality is complete.

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Emailing everyone is probably the best way to get everyone involved. I'm not saying it wasn't offered, I'm saying that it wasn't as open as it could be. 90% of people I spoke to had no clue about it even with the above mentioned ways to gain access. Again, this isn't an attack on you guys as I like the revitalization of the game, just that if everything is in one easy to digest format and accessible to all we can more easily make the community tighter. I will still argue that getting access to the test servers was an advantage though.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

And that is how Utopia became Irish :(

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I don't get it. So I'll change the topic.
Pronounce Ranelagh and we can talk.

If you get this right I will be deeply impressed. No cheating.

Hint: It's three syllables.

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Originally Posted by joeblogs

I don't often agree with Bart, but as to point 1 I know that the test server was open to select players (or through some other means of allocation I am not aware of). While I think that this is essential to work out bugs etc, it's unfair to have certain strata of the community know ahead of time what works and what doesn't. Half my decisions this age were made from leaked beta testers information. While I am not going to chop down the devs here like Bart is, he does have a point to make about access. I proposed elsewhere that testing could be given to every kd OR maybe the top 25 kds as an option pre age so they can both help, and be aware of the changes.

Again, there have been good developments, but to say that this is an unbiased community in which we are all equals is incorrect. Every age is the "age of nepotism" as far as I am concerned. Many great voices in this community go unheard - (like Attero) etc, and then the loudest (bart), or the established (faceless men) seem to be the most rewarded.

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If you read my post at all, you would know that your statement is 100% untrue. The testers have never had any information ahead of time (as JeffT mentioned) because ALL of the information they had through testing was not deployed onto the live server. So, IF 'half your decisions this age were made from leaked beta testers information' then ALL of those decisions were just as well taken from a hat because, once again, ALL information testers had available to them was not actual live game data.

I personally run the test server. I alter the code into the test form. I know the formulas that are being used and only I (and JeffT/Munk) know how to evaluate the data generated from the test server. The gains formula? Never went live on the test server. The personal explore pools? Oh, those had 3 different parts altered. The explore formula? Unchanged from last age so is irrelevant. Paladin never had self spells able to cast on others. None of the paladin self spells were coded to provided any effects on test server. Rituals? Oh these cost 5 runes and 1 cast to initiate, and they didn't provide any bonuses (not that it mattered because the bonuses were public knowledge). So what exactly were you able to base your decisions on from leaked beta testers? You have me intrigued.

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Originally Posted by DavidC

If you read my post at all, you would know that your statement is 100% untrue. The testers have never had any information ahead of time (as JeffT mentioned) because ALL of the information they had through testing was not deployed onto the live server. So, IF 'half your decisions this age were made from leaked beta testers information' then ALL of those decisions were just as well taken from a hat because, once again, ALL information testers had available to them was not actual live game data.

I personally run the test server. I alter the code into the test form. I know the formulas that are being used and only I (and JeffT/Munk) know how to evaluate the data generated from the test server. The gains formula? Never went live on the test server. The personal explore pools? Oh, those had 3 different parts altered. The explore formula? Unchanged from last age so is irrelevant. Paladin never had self spells able to cast on others. None of the paladin self spells were coded to provided any effects on test server. Rituals? Oh these cost 5 runes and 1 cast to initiate, and they didn't provide any bonuses (not that it mattered because the bonuses were public knowledge). So what exactly were you able to base your decisions on from leaked beta testers? You have me intrigued.

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So the test server tested 100% of things that were not added to the game?

Anyway I just want it universally accessible. I actually like where the game is headed.

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Originally Posted by joeblogs

Emailing everyone is probably the best way to get everyone involved. I'm not saying it wasn't offered, I'm saying that it wasn't as open as it could be. 90% of people I spoke to had no clue about it even with the above mentioned ways to gain access. Again, this isn't an attack on you guys as I like the revitalization of the game, just that if everything is in one easy to digest format and accessible to all we can more easily make the community tighter. I will still argue that getting access to the test servers was an advantage though.

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Join the test server and you'll see it is not an advantage. Follow the slack channel conversations and you'll see that it's the same people over and over putting in the work but when they suggest things no one listens to them. This is not saying that everything is unbiased, but barking at the test server is barking in the wrong direction. Sure there are a lot of the high ranking players in that slack channel but most don't test or discuss anything. The ones doing the legwork of actually testing, pointing out obvious bugs and such do not get any advantage from doing so.

Most of you would be crying in the streets if formulas were the same.

On a constructive note, great job! After taking a look at how WW charts are calced I think it could use a bit more attention. Maybe after a certain % for relative opponent nw in either direction(for just that war) there is an increase to how the WW points are calced, respectively. War someone way smaller, get less points, and vice versa. This will be more important with current changes as it prevents growth kds from warring much smaller opponents(that are still high on charts) and being rewarded too much. Keeps the charts separate to an extent. I'm sure there is a better way to explain, or go about this, but I'll leave that to you guys.

Again, thanks for some great changes!