so +30% income pumped and most likely on far supperior science lost to avian + undead setup.
I did not think human was a strong pick, yet I'm surprised you can have all those factors and still end up losing min time.
Printable View
so +30% income pumped and most likely on far supperior science lost to avian + undead setup.
I did not think human was a strong pick, yet I'm surprised you can have all those factors and still end up losing min time.
income doesn't help if u both start with a few 100 million spare. Add to the fact that you often dont have peasents in war, avain has +birthrate, and undead has plague. I'd assume those 3 things basically mean that both setups have equal econ in early war.
As for why they thought it was lost, i'd be curious too. From the outside it looked like sleepy was chaining slower and not as well...and was losing the t/m's a bit faster. Maybe Coss thought he couldnt win with just a few unbrekable humans espically if outnumbered by avains and a slightly stronger/larger t/m backup? My only issue with that thought is that those humans shoulda been near un-opable and avain sustain wouldnt outlast the humans on a longer term. Couple that with better science to survive chaining and better nw to start on the tier 2 re-chaining and i'd of assumed you coudnt even come close to deciding a winner till day 4-5.
Strange WD but good job BB. Maybe back to back crowns. ;)
Ggwp sleepy.
I'll post when I'm sober.
Very surprising war outcome.
The econ edge was limited by max pump on both sides, but it seems like sleepy could have squeezed some of the absurd "beyond max prep" options into play
I.e. they were on pretty crashed be by conflict time, seems they couldve afforded to max buildswap homes and enter conflict on 130% be.
Or max overdraft solds dump to a single prov where desertion can be managed.
Or my favorite, combination of overdraft solds and intentional desert to get 2 extra rtpa to then use oping and then release/desert to the soldball pool.
Seems like sleepy maxxed out their mpa on lower homes than ideal because of pop sci, and ate more be loss than bb because of it.
Bb had sages ranging 10-20% higher BE at conflict,
Looked like a fun fight
Hard to overcome humans sucking. Faeries suck too but it looks like emeriti just donated pool at 75% burn to make up for a bad race/pers choice. seems super easy for BB to do the farm 50k hit and run for the win. 9 faeries are terrible, I was pushing for no more than 2Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
Not like it matters, Bart will dealbreak or farm out to someone to feel important and whatever kd has no morals will take his farmed acres for the win, unless Zauper keeps erasing his terrible footprint from the recordbook
This war shows what basically everyone knew (almost) - humans are terrible beyond repair. I believed coss could make it work with sage and the overpowered nightstrike but lol...
Let's just say this one is on me:D and that's all:D I bet BB knows if they were to do what we did in hostile the result would be way worse for them than it was for us;)
It's funny either way haha.
actually it's not lolQuote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija
I guess not then.
Rofl
Interesting surrender. Pump for 6 weeks after being handed the crown OOP. Constantly claim you're tired of whoring tactics BS and will just farm everyone in your path --> yet give BB a CF that allows them to catch up to you? Then do a short hostile while you're clearly having ops adv with the magic/crime sci you have, then still do relatively well yet surrender NW up knowing full well a loss puts you out of contention for the age.
How much money was promised?
sleepy got tried of the sitting still and will now hunt all the farms around them ronin, tbb, The U, Sparta ?
I just hope they are not making Proteus pay for all of this.
bunch of bare back BJ's and some people getting sleepy
No more updates on why this (fake)war had to end min-time? Come on, I at least expect some pretty excuses. Flogger you got any ins on this one?
its not clear to you ?, sleepy made a deal with BB to prevent ems and bart from winning the age (troll).
Dont worry i got you bart find me on mirc and i will crown you.
I'm not even playing this age. Well I am. I'm in 7:14 and we just lost to another ghetto. But seriously, the admins want this game to grow in playerbase yet do nothing to counter this conspiring ****play other than creating more ways for people to ****play each other (the surrender option for instance).
Fight summary as promised. This was a war of fine margins. The kd that made fewer mistakes won. And deservedly so.
Pre fight up to notice expiry we were probably 40-60 on paper. Gold not an issue either sides on a kd level but province level we were pretty short on our faeries. Had to do some DS.
If sleepy had conserved their BE at 110++ i would put us on 30-70 odds. But they didnt. That said we also messed our prep on few avians and one or 2 undeads. One undead apparently didn't even receive the memo to go 70% homes. Some avians, crucial ones as well being biggest few, overdid the peasant conserving BE sh!t that they were still stuck on 5 ppa when train date came, meaning he was going to show at fight expiry 4mpa less (though there were tickly training after). Leadership was busy getting wasted at Oktoberfest to micro and hold everyone's hands and these kind of bs happens.
Things i felt sleepy did wrong:
Opening first 8 hits from prosperous (fhey admitted that). Rest opening wave hits they moved to aggro. But this allowed us to declare and chain those who hit from prosperous and beat home. And chain another bunch who were still out.
Pwrsonally if i were them i would open from bottom and semi turtle top. And play from there. If we retalled on their top then they can commit another few bigger dudes knowing there's a few chainable avians once/if we push. Fully committing when the war is this close almost never works out great.
Second mistake was the chaining of the undeads that got ns'ed half his offense from 1.3m to 650k. Leaving him at 5k msking poor hits was better than chaining him 2nd wave. With 650k off he was able to quad and finish chains for us at 2.5k.
Third mistake i felt was going 6 rtpa on humans then not doing tds. This meant they lost tpa fast on ns runs and the tpa couldnt sustain.
Things working in our favour (not in sleepy's control):
Our nw ranges made for better chains.
Humans were fast first wave but too reliant on builds. They went something like 18-20 rax and did minus h to keep up with our avians but that couldnt last long. By 24h they were unable to match us for speed due to even lower BE and diluting rax from razes and incoming.
Undead war hero. The gains were sweet being unaffected by emerald and helped us take their 2 faeries down.
Sleepy had no rogues. This meant no GA and AW from them. We could run our faeries with no wt and go heavy wt on core to counter their 6 rtpa. They needed to raze to break our builds.
In summary, we needed to play near perfect and for them to make a few mistakes and this was what happened. Credit goes to my co leaders for executing the first 2 waves while i was stuck in flight using the limited free 20mb to give orders. Aside from 2 asian dudes sleeping through their overpop i think everyone at my side did well.
It may not look obvious to the outsider who the winner was, given that the nw was dead even. But it was fairly certain from the inside. I am indeed surprised the wd came because i thought ot might go another 12 to 24h. But they stood to lose much more if they cant turn it around. It would have required some mistakes from our end which i dont think we were in the mood to commit.
We were 4m nw down at cf drop but we closed them to even nw in 48h. Sleepy's bigs at wd were their 3-4k's mostly except Patek which we AW'ed to make for LL with low tpa wpa and defense. On the other hand, most of our big avians were our bigs to start the fight with. And clerics too, so much more sustainable. We were able to semi turtle and send out between 600-700k MO on most of the big avians while keeping 550k def home. Their top had offense of about 900k and would leave under 300-350k if out. This means they struggled to break our bigs since they could only 1x while we could 2x their top comfortably and 2x bottom chain(who had 40-70k def).
Still a great fight and credit to coss and sleepy. Ggwp.
Ok so TLDR is that Coss suddenly forgot about elementary uto mechanics and lost 15% of his land to you while having 22 attackers and more than maxed mil/pop sci (both around 25% I think vs ur UD on 10% at best).
Good story.
How much u paid?
Not everyone does arrange wars or pay2win like you bart :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
Edit - Oops but how would you know? Since I have returned back you have not won any war without Breaking a deal, Outside help, Getting fed gcs by begging to some other kd, doing a 2v1 or 3v1 or 10v1 or arranging a farm war. But nvm, utopia needs entertainers like you! So don't leave!!
That's the entire point, they do. This is just another example of it. Come on, a KD with full human/sages who have 2x the amount of time to stack "only" has like 50% more gc during pump and "gc was not an issue for hostile". What crap is that. With the tpa/wpa and sci numbers sleepy boasted they would've easily hollowed out BB in a long hostile. And honestly, if you go and run 6 tpa without TDs you either suck or intentionally farm out. Since I don't think Coss sucks, it's pretty darn clear what happened here. He could've done 15% TDs while sacrificing 2 raw tpa to peasants and still have more BE/mod tpa. Again, a KD of full human/sage having 6 weeks to prep for 1 conflict then "accidentally" ****s up stances and only realizes that after 8 hits (lol), making bad greedy hits yet still ended up losing 15% of their land? Coss boasting to me his humans could quad theirs while they would only be able to single-tap back. What happened there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Anyways, I call bull**** on this conflict. Perhaps DavidC/Jeff can delve further into this and suspend them from the charts.
It was actually a two stage scheme as Sleepy's first war, which put them into the position to farm to BB, was also fraudulently obtained. This is just what strategy in utopia has become though so it's really not right to discount them for it.
Coss doesnt suck, they prepped good for this war but so did we ( with some exceptions :D ). Was a fun a fair fight and we won this time. Sleepy has our respect .
You didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by bounceOS
Either Coss sucks or he intentionally farmed out. Given the relative strengths of both KDs it's simply inconceivable a KD with such an insane sci advantage farms out that badly in a min-time war. Hell, even WSK lost less vs Emeriti than Sleepy did to BB relatively speaking.
I've seen Coss war before and I think he's a good player, so the only other explanation is that this was done intentionally.
Lol where did they lose 15%? Please back it up. They lost 2-3k land. And their sci advantage wasnt that much. This is me. Similar to other avians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
Alchemy 6 +3.9% Income
Tools 32 +27.5% Building Effectiveness
Housing 39 +20.3% Population Limits
Production 11 +55.9% Food & Rune Production
Military 40 +20.5% Military Efficiency
Crime 32 +128.7% Thievery Effectiveness
Channeling 27 +133.9% Magic Effectiveness
Our undeads had minimum 13% pop plus ME. plus war hero dragon immune. Plus plague which gives -20% dme to them. And 9 point offspecs which werent hurt when they hit us in hostile. They then upgraded fast to 14 points once we hit back. So what rubbish you talkin about?
Undead i sit now:
Alchemy 7 +3.0% Income
Tools 30 +16.8% Building Effectiveness
Housing 38 +13.0% Population Limits
Production 0 +0.0% Food & Rune Production
Military 38 +13.0% Military Efficiency
Crime 19 +50.5% Thievery Effectiveness
Channeling 20 +66.3% Magic Effectiveness
Well I guess I read war ended here and checked the KD-page and saw 100K. Didn't check since then. Blame me for inactivity!
I guess I'm mostly disappointed then in Coss boasting for weeks to me how he was gonna farm you guys and secure the age, then ended up WDing min-time.
Why do you have to prove that you are a nub with every post?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
Like Nesta said we were just a bit short on science on avians but like half on undeads compared to their humans. But Undead had like increasing offence every hit was just increasing our offence. One of the hits that I saw had 13k elite conversiions. Plague was a *****. Also Sleepy didnt have rogues. They hit our rogues down who could easily GA their gs n Hospitals.
Their only advantage was like 500 million gcs and more science compared to our undeads. But we had our own advantages of Fast attack time our rogues n plague!
When we started prepping for sleepy we went on 70% homes which in return gave us more pezzies, while sleepy had relatively high draft, which ment we could narrow the gcs diffrence. All aside, sleepy is a great kd ,fought hard, both kds did.
I thought u were quitting Bounce? Or did the moling give you fresh energy?
Lol im not even gonna go in that discussion with you. Yes i had quit but mod brought me back.
Aha. "quit" --> mole --> delete provs on a BB competitor --> "quit" --> back to BB. I feel bad for ever trusting you and defending you against my own players.
Isn't that funny your tactic was quit Sparta build a province then farm out said province to Sparta and then return to Sparta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
Please stay on topic. In the other chat you sort out Elit for it yet youre being funny here again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Keep your fatuousness within limits :)
I actually stopped reading after "they didn't build TDs."
Really? Like, really?
Please follow your own advice then where bounce plays isn't on topic. Don't backseat moderate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
Lol@bart
http://coub.com/view/a9bi5