Unban Binar

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Originally Posted by DavidC

We've only just had a recent discussion regarding a new direction in forum moderation concerning all the negative things people are mentioning here that have gone on for a long time with seemingly no recourse.
In order to begin the road to a more positive environment we need to take the first step. Steps are small while starting to run, you don't start running without small steps first.

If there are people who feel they can do just what Proteus so eloquently described by joining the moderation team I would be willing to give you an opportunity.

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1. Are you going to prevent Korp from trolling and baiting / provoking others?
2. Are you going to tell Palem to stop getting involved in game politics and trash talking?

That is the low hanging fruit and things most forum users actually have taken issue against rather than "clear fw"

Did we ever figure out who those fake-warring ghettos were? I sent Binar to ask but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.

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Originally Posted by Pestilence

What I'm saying is why was it suddenly decide that a common forum saying was suddenly against the rules?

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It's less "I've decided that X is against the rules" and more "We really need to start buckling down and enforcing the rules"

My philosophy has always been to just let things go until I absolutely need to step in. Both the community and ownership have voiced complaints about the "boys will be boys" approach so it's changing. It's really not any more complicated than that.

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Originally Posted by octobrev

Did we ever figure out who those fake-warring ghettos were? I sent Binar to ask but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.

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I figured it out who these respectable KDs that are putting on a clear legitimate war are

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Originally Posted by Palem

It's less "I've decided that X is against the rules" and more "We really need to start buckling down and enforcing the rules"

My philosophy has always been to just let things go until I absolutely need to step in. Both the community and ownership have voiced complaints about the "boys will be boys" approach so it's changing. It's really not any more complicated than that.

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No offense, but that is stupid. I haven't seen anyone in the community complain about that type of posting. Over moderation is the best way to kill a forum.

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Originally Posted by Pestilence

No offense, but that is stupid. I haven't seen anyone in the community complain about that type of posting. Over moderation is the best way to kill a forum.

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So is under moderation and allowing them to be dragged down into a pit of negativity. Allow us a little time as we try to bring it back to a healthy median please

Just when I thought SW, DavidC, and the troll team in green couldn't possibly make the forum environment any worse...

Binar is banned.

LOL.

Binar has brought (and kept) more people to/in this game then the two of you could hope to in several lifetimes. This is like banning lunch ladies in a cafeteria. You guys are out of touch with reality.

Oh no, negativity! Let's all hold hands and be positive, sing songs about epic battles! Post more TSwift gifs! Compliment the dealbreakers for being so ingenious in screwing us over! Let's also censor bad words, someone's feelings might be severely hurt!

I'm sorry, but DavidC is clueless about the community, Sassy is a censorship robot and Palem is possibly one of the greatest trolls that this forum ever had. And this ****show 'direction' will kill what's left of it.

http://i.imgur.com/El629yK.gif

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Originally Posted by Sassy_Wolfie

So is under moderation and allowing them to be dragged down into a pit of negativity. Allow us a little time as we try to bring it back to a healthy median please

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Negative posts like "clear fw" are definitely the problem. Looks like you guys have everything figured out perfectly. There are so few posters and posts that I have never had an issues following a thread with "off topic" posts aside from when they devolve in to personal attacks, which absolutely should he moderated.

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Originally Posted by Ovenmitt

Binar is banned.

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It's a 24 hour ban. Not a permaban

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Originally Posted by Avenger

Oh no, negativity! Let's all hold hands and be positive, sing songs about epic battles! Post more TSwift gifs! Compliment the dealbreakers for being so ingenious in screwing us over!

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You don't need to clean your aura before you post, but you will be expected to follow the rules.

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Originally Posted by Pestilence

Negative posts like "clear fw" are definitely the problem. Looks like you guys have everything figured out perfectly. There are so few posters and posts that I have never had an issues following a thread with "off topic" posts aside from when they devolve in to personal attacks, which absolutely should he moderated.

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What gives you the impression that they won't be?

Cant we all just be friends?

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Originally Posted by Sassy_Wolfie

So is under moderation and allowing them to be dragged down into a pit of negativity. Allow us a little time as we try to bring it back to a healthy median please

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You allowed a entire thread about how to get away with fake warring in the strategy thread. I called the thread out and you gave me a point for absolutely nothing. AOD members can say or do anything they want in the forums but let's sensor everyone else. Slow clap for such excellent Mods. Let's randomly ban/penalize monarchs of legit kingdoms. But have AOD members have an open discussion about fake warring in the forums.

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Originally Posted by Coldhearted

You allowed a entire thread about how to get away with fake warring in the strategy thread. I called the thread out and you gave me a point for absolutely nothing. AOD members can say or do anything they want in the forums but let's sensor everyone else. Slow clap for such excellent Mods. Let's randomly ban/penalize monarchs of legit kingdoms. But have AOD members have an open discussion about fake warring in the forums.

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That thread was started to help give newer and less experienced players a slightly better idea on the difference between a real war and a fake war. With several fake wars already actioned this age, they could be understandably skittish about doing/saying something that might be construed as something that could get them in trouble.

As a side note, if a group of people were actually going to talk about breaking the rules sincerely, the forums would be the LAST place they should do it. It's not logical and you are reading into that thread what you want to read.

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Originally Posted by Sassy_Wolfie

That thread was started to help give newer and less experienced players a slightly better idea on the difference between a real war and a fake war. With several fake wars already actioned this age, they could be understandably skittish about doing/saying something that might be construed as something that could get them in trouble.

As a side note, if a group of people were actually going to talk about breaking the rules sincerely, the forums would be the LAST place they should do it. It's not logical and you are reading into that thread what you want to read.

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A real war: Something the admin team agrees with
A fake war: Something the admin team disagrees with

Literally exactly what you have provided the utopian populace for guidelines this age as far as rules and fake wars.

"They're ambiguous for a reason."

lol. comical.

Didnt read whole thread yet, post can be removed.

Dear mods

Will

"Who are these ghettoes?"

now get me banned?

Perfect, soon I will be the only one left, all the forum crowns will be mine!

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Originally Posted by Palem

2. I applied the rule fairly to everyone. Binar was not the only person who's "clear fw" post I deleted. He was however the only one that decided to try and post it another 4 times. Such action is clearly deserving of a ban.

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Not sure if it has been addressed, but have you warned him while deleting his posts? In all fairness he could assume his internet acted up and his message didn’t got posted, or something else technical failed...

I can understand that for a new player these posts will be confusing, but it is utopian culture. Memes are a natural part of online communities this days and I don't see anything wrong with something like "clear fw" and "who are these ghettos" here.

Sadtimes, no binbin = no funfun. I'm now gonna make a stand and refrain from posting until bin is back in. #unbanBinar #meToo #crown4binbin #Nubway #UefaMafia #ForzaJuve #isArsenalAGhetto #whoAreTheseClubs #WengerOut #ModsIn #12HoursToGo #willIMakeIt #willTheWorldMakeIt #morePewPew

You have 18 posts over 5 years dude. Binar's ban expires in what, half a day?

If anything, this made you post.

Haha wow. I generally do not care about this stuff, but banning Binar for that is quite upsetting. This is like some hardcore Utopia censorship, and very clearly unwarranted as per most peoples response thus far. I'll also say on multiple occasions I have seen Palem trolling and causing additional trouble in threads, and even going as far as being the aggressor. Please address the real concerns in the forum (Palem and actual trolls), rather than banning a major community member for two words said in EVERY war/hostile thread. Figure it out ffs.

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Kinda silly to ban a person for saying "clear FW" multiples times, thats a catch phrase which has been used on these boards for years now by multiple different users and has never been banworthy.

Please apply the rules consistently. If you want to ban people for spam, then you should have banned Korp forever with his troll spam. Has he been banned? No.

Forum mods really need to stop taking their personal grudges out on people via these silly bans.

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First of all, its seems reasoanble to not make assumptions when you dont know the cause of it. Ie, you havent talked to Palem about it at this point so you make an assumption from what Binar have told you.

You dont know anything about my bans, so why even comment about those things? Its seems really dumb to make assumptions yet again without knowing the details nor the facts. I get banned and I dont spam.

Yet again, you dont have a clue about why the ban was handed out you make assumptions based on one side of the story. Ie, you eating everyting Binar says and apply it like the truth.

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Thanks for asking, happy to.

First of all, how do you differentiate between what is spam and not spam, that is a rather slippery slope. Without writing some flawless master know-all algorithm, the determination will be made by imperfect human beings suspect to capricious whims. I personally do not trust anyone on these boards to make such a determination and would argue it’s too much power to be concentrated within a select few people.

I care about consistency and equal treatment. The quotes you referenced are typical openings at the start of every war thread that have been said for years on end. Based on my experience, I have never seen anyone complain and be offended by such things. I think it’s ironic and hypocritical to call such things spam and ban people for it when you allow other forms of hateful (as compared to the harmless spam) in this case exist.

The best example of hateful spam are the posts of Korp who has been the most notorious troll on these forums for years. He consistently attacks other users and derails threads. If you truly want to make the forums a better place and to not put off new users, you should put a stop to his trolling or ban him should he not comply.

Another issue I have is with mods getting involved with game politics and smack talking other players. Think of the unequal struggle in this instance, when someone who has the power to ban is allowed to provoke other users. You are always in a losing fight as you’ll get banned if you retort too much or payback will occur in the future. On countless occasions I have seen Palem talk smack to other users, tell them how they got outplayed, berate others and tell them they need to do a better job of adapting (perhaps not all of the new changes are good or were implemented as intended). Quite frankly, mods should have a neutral stance and ensure proper conduct on the forums vs doing Korp-life trolling and baiting other users.

You actually made a very good selection with Sassy Wolf who does not berate other players, tell people to adapt, or get involved in politics. You want mods like that, not like Palem.

I think mods should prevent trolling, personal attacks, and enforce the forum rules. They should not try to get involved in the politics, talk smack to users, or arbitrarily decide what constitutes spam. Imagine just losing a crown due to intentional arranges farm out or sh1tplay and Palem telling you “you got outplayed”, I’ve seen that happen too many times and that’s just unacceptable.

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As we now know its a clear textbook example of spam so in this case is its fairly easy. You dont care about cosnistency and equal treatment the only reason you made this post is that cause Binar got banned nothing else. So its a shame that you hide behind false prensens for your arguments. Would you make this post if it was Steel getting banned, maybe zulu or even me? (Obviously not since you have showed how much you like me so far)

No I dont, your personal bias is clouding your judgement. Also pretty rich consider you have actually have a rich history of bashing other people cause you consider them "beneath you" especially after couple of beers.(Like you now in your posts about Palem you talk down against him instead of just being civil) But could you give me a clear example of my "hateful trolling" that i supposedly do every day and spam.

This is also pretty funny point nobody made threads about how awful and powerhungry and evil Bishop was when he trolled Mansoor nor when usually trolled Godly? Why is that?

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Originally Posted by Proteus

1. Are you going to prevent Korp from trolling and baiting / provoking others?
2. Are you going to tell Palem to stop getting involved in game politics and trash talking?

That is the low hanging fruit and things most forum users actually have taken issue against rather than "clear fw"

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Yet again, personal bias. You dont care you are just upset your buddy Binar got banned on his behalf.

lol, down utopia go.

Clear fw

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Originally Posted by DavidC

Proteus, could you explain the relevance "clear fw" or "who are these ghettos" has to any (every) thread they're used in and how they contribute to the OP ?
It seems like your argument is based on maintaining the status quo of the existing environment while comments such as those imo don't promote a positive and constructive environment for new players that come in and attempt to have serious conversions.

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I get that it's been a running "joke" for a long time but I did find it odd that spam posts (and not just those) were allowed in pretty much every thread in UT. So I agree with the stricter moderation policy.

Why are new players trying to convert?

But the real issue here is that stricter moderation just out of the blue isnt working out well. You cant just go from slack to strict from one day to another there in that case must be a transition period where they inform that they will moderate more strictly from now and onwards. Cause how can someone know that something they done yesterday and previously on multiple occassions suddenly is enforced and banable?

By having his post deleted?

More sounds like Binar puts himself above the LAW than anything else.

FAKE NEWS

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

By having his post deleted?

More sounds like Binar puts himself above the LAW than anything else.

FAKE NEWS

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I wasnt refering to any specific situation. Though, deleting a post with no explaination is a bad way of moderating as well imo.

Take a damn hint?

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Originally Posted by Korp

But the real issue here is that stricter moderation just out of the blue isnt working out well. You cant just go from slack to strict from one day to another there in that case must be a transition period where they inform that they will moderate more strictly from now and onwards. Cause how can someone know that something they done yesterday and previously on multiple occassions suddenly is enforced and banable?

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I do agree with this also. It might be helpful if one of the admins make a forum thread explaining the new policy. I know they and some mods have referred to it in various threads, but people are not likely to hunt through all the threads to find the moderation policy. I also accept that there is already provably a thread that bans spam etc, but thew fact is that wasn't really enforced before.

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Originally Posted by DavidC

Proteus, could you explain the relevance "clear fw" or "who are these ghettos" has to any (every) thread they're used in and how they contribute to the OP ?
It seems like your argument is based on maintaining the status quo of the existing environment while comments such as those imo don't promote a positive and constructive environment for new players that come in and attempt to have serious conversions.

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it's very relevant as many if not all of the top kds left in the game are in fact ghettos compared to kds of old prior to age 25 for instance. looking at some of these wars one can legitimately question if it is a fake war? if you were involved in top play when it clearly was just that...
we all know why korp steel and palem don't get baned . I was unfortunate when creating a random prov once to land in one of their ghettos. one off age where bishop korp palem steel think ben an octo were there too. worst ghetto i ever random into. their forum to game ration is like 1000/1. but all became clear why they get preferential treatment in the forum. like most everything else it comes down to who you play with.

free bin!!! one of the few posters left worth reading...

Crunch I got banned by Bishop the other week. But you are obviously lying cause those people you mentioned never played together.

You can also ask Mike if you get some special treatment playing with Bishop ;)

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Originally Posted by Korp

Crunch I got banned by Bishop the other week. But you are obviously lying cause those people you mentioned never played together.

You can also ask Mike if you get some special treatment playing with Bishop ;)

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with all due respect who would pretend to be you? I believe it was the the triggered age or possible a prior age before. I was only there for a few weeks as no one was interested in the game. perhaps it was an entirely diff ghetto with ben and octo that i'm thinking of. can say with certainty it was you bishop palem and steel. and bishop let you guys get away with many things others got banned for.

#unbanbinar

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Originally Posted by Crunch

with all due respect who would pretend to be you? I believe it was the the triggered age or possible a prior age before. I was only there for a few weeks as no one was interested in the game. perhaps it was an entirely diff ghetto with ben and octo that i'm thinking of. can say with certainty it was you bishop palem and steel. and bishop let you guys get away with many things others got banned for.

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Okey give me examples. Last time I got banned I got banned for "lol get real palem that wasn't an insult" But you know the difference is I don't go and cry about my bans (except to Bishop in private) so my bans go unnoticed.

But sure you might been in my ghetto probably the age we trolled Goldy. But that's the whole point in my ghetto no commitment at all and do what you feel like. We also ended up 4th in land and nw one age. But trust me Bishop is if anything harder towards us.

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Originally Posted by Crunch

we all know why korp steel and palem don't get baned . I was unfortunate when creating a random prov once to land in one of their ghettos. one off age where bishop korp palem steel think ben an octo were there too. worst ghetto i ever random into. their forum to game ration is like 1000/1. but all became clear why they get preferential treatment in the forum. like most everything else it comes down to who you play with.

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Just to address this quickly, I'm pretty sure I banned pillz a couple times when I played there and Bishop has actively banned people he plays with. No one gets preferential treatment just because mods have played/currently play with people. Everyone is held to the same standard of posting.

War is 50/50

Don't try to make the forums 100% serious, they should be fun. We already can't have fun in the news section, this uto talk remember there is supposed to be a difference. Bin bin shouldn't have spam posted it but it shouldn't have been deleted in the first place, neither side is in the right. Don't let our memes be dreams.

I'll leave yall with a little song:
I used to love palem, I used to love palem
I even had the TSwift gifs, I thought I was palem
What if palem made a topic about palem
Called "I Miss The Old palem"? Man, that'd be so palem
That's all it was palem, we still love palem
And I love you like palem loves palem

https://i.imgur.com/0ivMgP2.gif