That can not be the case because I have opped province with high wts and with 3-4mod and I did not fail. Even if that's the case I would be failing some of the times however I was not.
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That can not be the case because I have opped province with high wts and with 3-4mod and I did not fail. Even if that's the case I would be failing some of the times however I was not.
You never had 3-4 mod TPA in the first place.
Go away.
really? yet when you were elite and "unbreakable" taunted both your kingdom and VT2's didnt another gnome....smaller mind you come through and sack your province.....
and didnt you immediately defect afterwards?
First, he taunted me.
One of our dark elves saw he had stuff out, so he hit vines. Vines sent me a message, saying I'd 'hurt the red mist.'
A bit after that, he hit one of our fat orcs, and declared victory.
Late in the age, almost at the end, his queen contacted me.
After that, it all turned to razes, razes, some more razes, and a few traditional marches.
Vines ended up in Omega, and we haven't seen any intel from his province since.
. . . .
Good idiot.
Now, back in the box with you.
Well, I would like to see vines prove everyone wrong. I submit that he should give weekly updates on his new prov this age.
This is the most accurate thing i've heard all day, DHaran easily makes his point clear and understandable... but DHaran, vines is just trying to point out that HE believes dens and tpa are more effective in the long run.. thats his opinion so we all have to deal with that. but DHaran your right.. wt's have nothing to do with thievery effectiveness, and being a dwarf, it makes sense to use wt's because of the BE bonus, end of storyQuote:
WTs are NOT affecting by the penalty, because WTs have NOTHING to do with thievery effectiveness.
btw, mickster, it is quite noobish closing that thread.. the most aggressive word in that whole thread was the word 'cry'... you allow 'VT2 vs. catwalk' threads but don't allow DHaran and vines to battle it out over and actual utopia issue rather than a 'im the best in the forum' thread.. terrible.
Did you bother to read my reasons for closing that thread?
is this it?Quote:
If y'all can't play nice, then don't play at all.
Not once have I have I said tpa affect tws. And yet he's this guy keeps telling me tpa doesn't effect tws. Okay . . . so what--what's your point?
I said less tpa makes tws less effective, in other words, if one less tpa the tws becomes less of a factor. If one more tpa watch towers become more of a factor. So it best to use tws with thief dens.
Dude get this through your never did I say tpa affects tws. I said depending on the tpa the wts more effective. If you have 0 tpa the tws will not being very effective. The enemy will just keep oping you. If you have some tpa now the enemy will have to worry. Because combind with some tpa wts can do damage to the enemy spies and stop them in there tracks. Without tpa watchtower will not stop anyone.
ya your right vines... obviously tpa helps defends against enemy thieves.. and complementing that with wt's is even better for defending against thieves.. no body is arguing that..
That was the point I made in the first place when I gave the advice of going with half dens and half tws. Then some dude comes along saying I'm telling people tpa affect tws. Putting words in my damn mouth.
Quote:
If y'all can't play nice, then don't play at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsyer
No, it was this one:
"I actually deleted about a dozen and a half posts that were insults, rants and raves against other posters.
Since the thread became nothing more than a pissing contest, I closed it so people could stop, take breath, and quit sniping at each other. "
This is exactly the problem vines, the way you word things mean something entirely different. TPA does not make WTs less effective, the bonuses remain the same regardless of tpa, if defending your tpa is just another factor in the equation. Effectiveness is a widely used term in this game, if you say a building is less effective, and you aren't talking about the actual building effectiveness, then you are feeding false information. You are too thick-headed to understand what I am trying to tell you.
As for putting word in your mouth? Fine I will quote you and disassemble your thoughts one by one:
"Not once have I have I said tpa affect tws. And yet he's this guy keeps telling me tpa doesn't effect tws. Okay . . . so what--what's your point?"
followed by...
"Dude get this through your never did I say tpa affects tws. I said depending on the tpa the wts more effective."
LOL purely contradictory statements!
Ok here you go, notice the portions where vines says -30% thievery effectiveness (which affects tpa) makes WTs less effective. Here are just a FEW of his statements that are wrong on this matter.
All of the following are directly quoted:
"-30% thievery effectiveness means the dwarf is 30% less likely to be successful in committing a crime and 30% less likely to caught an enemy thieves."
FALSE - It only mods the tpa by -30%, the overall tpa vs tpa and other factors such as WTs/CS determine fails and catches.
"What this means is thieve Dens are 30% less effective and watch towers are 30% less effective."
FALSE - The effectiveness of the building is not affected by the Dwarf racial penalty, in fact they are more effective because of the dwarf racial BE bonus. Ex on WT: Running the same mod tpa, a dwarf's WT will work better than any other race from BE bonus.
"Thievery effectiveness affects the amount of thieves one loses in failed attempts."
FALSE - TPA has nothing to do with losses, losses are based on the amount of thieves you sent on an op, and is modified by TD thief loss bonus.
"Less tpa means higher loses on failed attempts."
FALSE - See above.
"Also you shouldn't believe the hype about me not know what I'm doing. I'm the real deal."
Just plain FALSE.
DHaran I never said tpa makes tws' bonus stronger or weaker that would mean tpa affects tws but that is not the case. I said the less tpa you have the less effective your tws will be. I really do not think you understand what I am saying. That's a damn shame.
DHaran you keep bring up new issues. The more thieves one sends the more one will naturally lose. However the higher tpa one has rises the likely hood of losing less thieves in failed attempts. If you do not believe this can be check out on the utopia guide.
However, the opponent's tpa also has a factor in determining the amount of thieves one loses. This part is left out of the guide.
STOP USING THE WORD EFFECTIVE!! It has a very specific meaning in Utopia, and you cannot say low tpa makes WTs less effective, because that is NOT true!
Say something like "if you have low tpa, even with WTs you can still be opped" but for god's sake, STOP USING THE WORD EFFECTIVE! Your constant misuse of Utopian terminology is what confused people who need REAL help.
You need a full time translator to turn your comments from useless piles of crap, into a meaningful post that might actually be almost right. But I don't think there is a person on the planet who can successfully make anything you say make ANY sense.
FFS
false...
WT are 100% independent of tpa....WT accomplish 2 things
Lower resources lost
provide a chance to catch a thief
meaning no matter the race i can play with 0 tpa and 20% WT and produce the same chance to catch a thief..
If what you mean is a low tpa when combined with WT means that you are more vunerable than a province with a high tpa and WT that you are correct
but as the racial bonus does not effect WT's you should not use dwarves as an example...because the same would hold true to any race
AND ITS A WT - WATCH TOWER - NOT A FRIGGIN TW (which is town watch)
jesus....
Vines, you may know what youre saying but how youre saying it is grossly incorrect. The lower your tpa has no relation to EFFECTIVENESS. Stop using the word EFFECTIVE in the wrong context. The thieves merely act as an intial line of defence. You have a mod tpa of 5 and someone with a mod tpa of 2 is highly unlikely to succeed in off ops. Throw in watchtowers and those with tpas near, equal, or higher than yours will be less likely to succeed than if you were reliant on your tpa alone, as your watchtowers may pick them up. The are totally unrelated factors on the success rates on enemy ops.Quote:
Originally Posted by vines
Long time forum reader, very experienced player. I play for a consistent Top 5-20 Honor KD on WOL.
As you can already tell I dislike vines. I dislike him to the point were I created a forum account in order to help with the crusade against him. Mods need to truly make an exception in vines case and just block his rubbish posts from the forum. These forums are here to discuss strategy both amongst experienced players and noobs. And all vines does is forge stats...blatantly lie...and most of all his IQ rivals that of his age.
I just want everyone to be clear the above poster is NOT me. lol I can already see the accusations that I created an alter ego coming.
That being said, thanks for the support haha!
I AM DHARAN!!
just kidding....
I talk about strategy. If one asks about libraries and if they should use them. I will tell that person the benefits libraries give work much like the way the science system works. At 5bpa the benefits libraries will give will be doubled at 20bpa, and the benefits libraries give will be double once again at 80bpa, and so on. The is gives the player asking the question insight to how libraries work with the science one may have. And with this people make the choice for themselves as to where or not libraries will help their game plan.
You guys want me to exact numbers. That can not be done. I can't use these buidlings at with in week1-week2 after week 2 you can use libraries because you will have 200bpa. What you guys want is for me to tell you my strategy hour by hour, day by day, month by month, year by year.
My strategy changes depending on the opponent I am facing. If the opponent has 10rawtpa and +20modtpa and modwpa like ways. I find a way to protect myself from that. If the opponent has almost no tpa or wpa I carry little to no tpa/wpa. I'm not saying one will have +20modtpa/wpa but if happen my strategy would change in order to protect from that.
If I see an opponent Msing all are attackers. I put most of my buildings in to guilds and continues to take land.
If a opponent has a faster army which they almost always do I just have a bigger and stronger army.
The opponent will alway throw something new at you or something you didn't figure on, in the attempt to win. It is your job to adjust. The ruler/kingdom better at adjusting wins
Most of you guys play this game as if their is a set way to win. That is not the case.
Oh also I put example for the example for the ones ODing on the hater-aid.
i have to say something about this
guys honestly i think the vines thing is gone over the line. i've seen some of the stuff vines posted and there are pretty funny and stuff, but the bullying is just a bit too much. whether the things vines say are retarded or not, he never tried to insult anyone. there is no "skill limit" to post in this forum, and vines has just as much right to post here as anybody else.
so for mehul's sakes, quit acting like 12 year old bullies, leave vines alone and let him post whatever he wants. let the thread starters judge whether they want to listen to his advice or not
It has nothing to do with skill limit, he should not be giving advice when he doesn't understand the game himself. The issue is all about his ability to learn something when he is wrong, an ability he completely lacks. Anything he posts on these forums is a waste of space. Period.
I'm gonna go away for a while, because this convo has gotten old, I'm sure I'll be back around when I see vines giving some other poor guy horrendous advice on whether or not he should build 80% Homes.
nobody is saying vines is pro at this game, but u dont have to actually HATE someone just cuz they dont understand the game as well as u do. so what if he tells ppl the wrong stuff? he tries hes best and he actually had good intentions. if u were his father then i can understand where the anger came from, but as far as i can see vines never personally attacked u. so just relax and leave him alone
vines is actually very polite, especially considering how many ppl picks on him in this forum
bottom line is quit being a bully
There isn't any rules that says 80% homes are wrong
You can build 99% farms if you want,let vines discuss strats how much he wants... And if noobs takes hes advice and it doesen't work they have at least learned that they shouldn't listen to everyone...
Your posts are also waste of space DHaran
FALSE.
Dharan is the only person who has actually made meaningful posts which are ACCURATE and TRUE. That is hardly a waste of space. As for Vines, it wouldn't be so bad if he kept to himself, but he isn't. He is spamming useless, incorrect, false advice, is incapable of accepting that he is wrong and continues to believe that he is "the strongest". Anyone who says otherwise obviously ignorant.
"he actually had good intentions. Hitler had "good intentions" and look what happened. I think this is actually comparable.
"so what if he tells ppl the wrong stuff". I dunno, what if everyone started telling the wrong stuff on this forum, doesn't matter cuz we don't care about new players who genuinely want to learn how to play the game. /sarcasm
Woop! There goes Godwin's Law :)
Vines really only has two problems.
He's unable to properly communicate himself with his lack of the english language and he's unwilling to believe he can be wrong, and adjust himself accordingly.
Otherwise, he's not so bad.
Ok, briefly back at Mickster about the original reason for the thread.
I mistook your editing of a post for the user doing the edit (and thus demonstrating remarkable restraint, I thought). I understand your reason for closing the thread much better once I look back and see that more clearly. Still not sure if I 100% support your approach - but I didn't see the deleted posts, so I'm going to assume your actions were the most appropriate available to you.
As to the vines debate - everyone says he never learns, but I at least see him making different mistakes each time, and often (after a *very* long time) ending up agreeing with us. It'd be nice if he saw he had changed positions from his first posts, but I'm happy enough if he leaves actually understanding the component in debate.
This thread makes an example - vines now says WTs don't directly interact with TPA, exactly the point we were trying to get him to see. Now the global "usefulness" (what vines mistermed effectiveness) does depend on both, but the underlying effect doesn't. Just because it seems obvious to us that effectiveness should mean the technical part, doesn't mean everyone else will see it that way. I grant, sometimes it's hopeless in the short term - but explaining something to vines can force us to examine errors we would never make ourselves, and learn how to teach around them. Look a little closer at why it bothers you (the general you) so much that he posts - you *could* just ignore him, but you feel compelled to try and respond instead: why?
Think Different
Because *some* posters believe in actually granting users real help. Correcting peoples mistakes and trying to help people understand where they went wrong. So we're compelled to watch most of vines posts to correct his mistakes so other people can also see where he went wrong :)
@ Mickster:
You mention a pissing contest and blah. What do you think a "who's the bigger troll" thread is about? :o
Just curious :P
Ok well I didnt do any vines hating but it is completely WRONG to mention tpa and watchtowers iro associated EFFECTIVENESS. If you cant see the importance of correcting that then clearly you have no desire to help nubs improve. Feed em false information and see if they survive seems to be the name of the game in that case.
<3 DHaran FTW!
Ezzer is actually very right about that. I find myself searching for vines posts for the sole reason that I KNOW he is giving bad advice or giving false information, so someone needs to correct him and offer real help. The problem is when he doesn't accept the correction and just goes on and on and on with his random statements.
I have good intentions, with a short fuse on my temper, mix vines in with that and it's a BAD combo. I recognize some people may think I am a bully or a prick, but if vines would just show a little acceptance of being corrected or understanding of a truthful explanation then it would all go a lot smoother for everyone involved.
vines: open up your mind to what people here are trying to teach you, and maybe you can eventually be of some help to people who need it.
I find myself searching for vines' posts because they are hilarious and spark a huge flame war, and he defends himself right off a cliff every time.
I find myself searching for vines' posts so I can put him back in the box, where he belongs.
I never said tpa affected wts. I said more tpa makes tws more effective. Someone else was saying I was telling people that tpa affects wts. I clearly never said that.
what the hell is tws ?
come clean vines/VT
Everybody knows its true the same guy is both nicks
tpa gives tws a woody for greater utilazation?
my head hurts