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The correct answer was no, that does not logically follow.
Well let's see. There's Bishop's kd since he admitted that they obviously traded.
Sinners were mass deleted then denied reinstatement after pleading their case, so there must have been adequate proof that they were cheating.
Yep. With my way of thinking (the way the game was SUPPOSED to be played) you were all dirty dirty cheaters. Why can't you accept that? You broke the rules to fit your own play styles and egos. Pretty simple. Your all real quick to pat yourselves on the back for your 'GREAT KINGDOMS' as obvious by this thread. The only kingdoms that didn't think illegal trades and account collecting was 'acceptable' were the kingdoms that were themselves engaged in the same activity. Pretty freaking sad you people can't accept that you broke the rules of the game and thus are labeled 'cheaters'.
There were quite a few kingdoms that PLAYED BY THE RULES. We NEVER traded, We NEVER collected accounts, It was always posted in kingdom forums if you were a multi to GTFO etc etc etc... we never kicked people out of the kingdom for any other reason than being inactive.
Well we can Start with Brute Force and go from there if you want me to name them.... So stop acting like I don't know what the hell I am talking about. A good 12-13 years of playing this game and you learn quite a few things about the going ons. So try again... lol
**Quick edit**
Before I get some buffoon in here calling me out on a lie I will correct it myself. We did kick out provinces that were non-responsive players, farms, and people that just refused at least make the attempt to play as a team. Other than that, that was it.
And I will add that kingdoms like the one I was in was a minority thus making the experience all that more frustrating. So sorry if I am a little bitter seeing threads like these.
Seems Palems kingdom was much like ours. I have more respect for Palems gameplay than I do over the lot of you...
rules ..... the way the game was supposed to be played ......
Who decided these rules ... you the player ? moofool ?
Moofool deleted my legit non cheating account in age 10.
At that point of playing utopia I had never asked for an accounts info, shared an account with anyone, traded an aco****, created mass accounts, proxied, shared info outside of my Kingdom ...... but my account was deleted .... so where twelve other provinces in my Kingdom ....and then 12 more the following age.
We where never given a reason we got total silence from echelon games and 50% of my Realm mates stopped playing due to the bull**** treatment we got, I know of three other Kingdoms who got the same moofol rough justice. ( this was pre age 14 mass deletions)
Sure I cheated from that point onwards I gathered account info I traded accounts and I illegally transfered accounts to other countrys ...... moofool created the rules of engagement I just followed them.
Mehul made the rules. He owned the game and he made the rules. Just as now if you try to use automation to play your account you get deleted by S&B or any other rule they have set. Even Bishop should understand this. Those 'rules' were in place for a 'reason'. Doesn't matter what you, me, bob, jeff, george or masha think of these 'reasons', if we were to play the game we were 'supposed' to play by the rules Mehul set.
Just because Mehul lost interest in having to police all the dirty tactics and people trying to bend or break rules all the time, did not mean these rules were to be ignored. You all were given the keys to the car and ran hog wild with it.
Even toward the end Mehul deleted the 'obvious' provinces and kingdoms, even if he wasn't the fastest in acting upon it, for breaking the 'rules'.
Jobolob doesn't probably know it but he played in our kingdom the last age we were in existence and moved on to create his Aussie kingdom. He can vouch for my claims of a 'fair play' kingdom if you think I'm full of BS.
The definition of great is not "follows the rules". Mehul wanted the game to be played a certain way, and lots of the players thought his way was BS. He had to back down on several issues because his ideas were just not gonna work. Anyway, if you want to make a thread about who was the greatest kd that never cheated (and can actually prove that there exists a single kd matching that description, which you of course can't), go ahead.
It's a huge difference between kd's that traded and kd's that xlogged and farmed. Trading was a shortcut, and if everybody had gotten deleted for it, this game would not likely exist today. You saved time by trading, that's it. Xloggers and farmers actually got ingame advantages from their cheating. The great kd's are those that never did rely on xlogging and farming, and that would've still been the best even without trading. Even without trading, these kd's would have easily outperformed the "non-cheating" kd's, because the difference in performance was due to skill, not trading. Call them cheaters all you want, they were still miles ahead of you. Don't expect any of those kd's to ever apologize or feel bad for trading, because it's never gonna happen. Just like people don't feel bad for crossing the street without a green light if there are no cars around.
What is Bishops kds name?Quote:
Well let's see. There's Bishop's kd since he admitted that they obviously traded.
Sinners were also reinstated once, but i asked you to provide proof <- Okey, I didnt I was going to edit that in yesterday but i forgot so sorry (edit)Quote:
Sinners were mass deleted then denied reinstatement after pleading their case, so there must have been adequate proof that they were cheating.
Dude, its pretty sad that you cant read, nobody in here have ever denied that they didnt cheat (well apart from people with holier than you attitutdes like you). But for us it was a socially accepteable rule to break. It provided enjoyment, alot of social interaction etc.Quote:
Pretty freaking sad you people can't accept that you broke the rules of the game and thus are labeled 'cheaters'.
You keep saying that but you're words isnt much worthQuote:
There were quite a few kingdoms that PLAYED BY THE RULES. We NEVER traded, We NEVER collected accounts, It was always posted in kingdom forums if you were a multi to GTFO etc etc etc... we never kicked people out of the kingdom for any other reason than being inactive.
What about Brute Force? (any tool can name a kd) I asked name a kd that you know cheated and plz provide proof.Quote:
Well we can Start with Brute Force and go from there if you want me to name them.... So stop acting like I don't know what the hell I am talking about.
Your entire kd could have been cheating, you cannot say for sure that your kd NEVER traded etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fates Warning
I'm not really bothered by being labeled a cheater for trading. Everyone i know was ok with it. Much the same way that everyone in real life doesn't come to a complete stop at a stop sign if they see the road is clear. Some rules are dumb.
Immediately after you provide real proof that all top kingdoms cheated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Here, Palem's words are best: Prove it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fates Warning
But hey, damn, you can't! Because you maybe didn't even noticed what your mates do. And most specially because in so many years as you claim to have played, it is enough that, one guy from your kingdom did it once, and your "never" goes to hell. You're a dummy hypocrite with no skills whatsoever so you need to whine about other people's bad attitude to justify your minuses.
And there is the proof of your hypocrisy. A few posts above you were talking about "forcing" people to play by the kingdoms way, while you too did same. Hypocrite, hypocrite, hypocrite!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fates Warning
Because I said it, it must be so!Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfDGrey
"asked someone who was technically not inactive, but not active enough for you to leave your kd because they didn't want to put in the time you wanted them to?" = pretty much can mean not being a team playerQuote:
Originally Posted by Shockwave
Then Fates Warning Wrote:
Thus your a dirty dirty cheater, just fess up already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fates Warning
Trying to put words into my mouth? Looking for any little petty thing to attack me on? Why? To deflect the facts of you all trying to play stupid? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Coke
We gave provinces plenty of opportunity before we removed. Nothing that was blatantly against the rules such as yourself.
blah blah blah just send the criminals stealing bread to the colonies to be slave labour ..... Mr Black and White
Nope, we were "reinstated", just kd disbanded after waiting for too long so we didn't tag that age and let the shell die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
As for who traded and who didn't, everyone did. This discussion is useless and was active few times before here on Jolt (and probably on Swirve too). I still see Fates Warning trying to justify the fact his kd sucked because he didn't trade. OK, trading is legal now, where is your kd? is it even charted?
Hmm, fun facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidAngel
yup, rather fun :)
Oh yea, here we go. Can't debate the issue so just say I suck. LMOA. Your quite the looser man. Can't win by the rules so you cheat and say my kingdom sucked. Yea, we sucked compared to fully recruited, account collecting cheating kingdoms like yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidAngel
And if you could actullay read AND comprehend at the same time you would see that my kingdom disbanded the Same age Jobolob left to create his own kingdom. The Same age Trading became legal.
All I'm doing is putting all your great accomplishments into perspective that you all want to tout all the time. Well if you want to talk about how great your kingdoms were then you also need to talk about how cheating was used to accomplish such.
If you can't handle the fact that you cheated it's not my problem.
No you sucked cause you had all those years of being able to train a kd to become good and yet you failed. There are alot of people that managed to make their kds good without trading yet you seemed to have failed utterly.Quote:
Yea, we sucked compared to fully recruited, account collecting cheating kingdoms like yours.
No all you do is running around screaming cheaters cheaters cheaters! wiithout any viable proof.Quote:
All I'm doing is putting all your great accomplishments into perspective that you all want to tout all the time.
Nobody in here has denied that they have cheated, thats the big part that you seem to miss the only one that has backwards attitude is you. Everyone else mans up but you.Quote:
If you can't handle the fact that you cheated it's not my problem.
Some of us had a little respect for the game and didn't want to manipulate it to suit our own needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Wait, you suck cause you have respect for the game? Doesnt that sound quite retarded to you? If you have time you dont need to manipulate the game, you weed out, you create a core, you weed out expande the core, etc until you have a good kd.Quote:
Some of us had a little respect for the game and didn't want to manipulate it to suit our own needs.
*Speaks all the way up to korp*Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
No, playing by the rules doesn't sound retarded to me. Having time doesn't make up for not having 25 players with 24/7 access to the game and a great strategist behind the wheel.
But you are doomed to become better at the game, if you dont b ecome better after playing the game for 10 years there is something wrong. You dont need to be a great strategist to run a decent kd neither do you need to have people have access 24/7. But after playing for 10 years in the same kd you should have at least have a decent kd. (10 year is just a random number same applies for 5 years or whatever)
Playing by the rules dont mean that you suck, there people that played within the rules of the game and won number one provices for example. But saying you suck due to you playing by the rules is stupid.
Back to thread topic. I am amazed no one has mentioned either Wrath of Absalom, in the early part of Utopia (Ages 6-20) or EQ, which has been a top kingdom for many ages. Longevity, several crowns, good players, some of the best strategists the game has ever seen....EQ is probably the best in my opinion.
Both Wrath and Eq was stable top kingdoms but they werent really anything out of the ordinary.
Where did I say I suck? And where did I say I haven't gotten better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Well, you replied to my post about Fates Warning suck cause he havent been able to build a good enough kd with saying you have respect for the game as if that was some kind of excuse to you sucking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fates Warning
First what about putting words into people's mouths? When did I do something against the rules? I never said I traded nor did I, I never even played in the top back then. So your pretty much now assuming people who criticized you all cheated? Wow, that's almost just too good.
Second if you can't take criticism you shouldn't give it. Just because YOU didn't think you cheated doesn't mean you NEVER cheated. Just because trading was thought to be ok doesn't make it not cheating. Your exactly the same. That's the whole point, so go shove your saintly image of yourself up your ass.
I also said I wasn't in the top kds back then, so I really could care less, my KD sucked back then so what? I never traded back then and never thought that trading would have given me much of an advantage, the advantage you got from trading is equalized by the potential to be deleted.....well back when rules were at least sort of enforced.
For the record, Sinners were huge cheaters. Had a classmate in the kingdom, I sat beside him in the library while he logged 3 accounts by himself using munk.
Yes, I CAN say I NEVER CHEATED. Go shove your comments up YOUR ass. Never said we were 'saintly'. I said we played by the rules. Plain and simple. But then you try to find something to pin on me about removing inactives... gtfo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coke
I'm confused... Are you saying illegal trades that created these 'great kingdoms' was in fact cheating? That's my point. Plain and simple. But instead of people admitting to the fact they try to bash and defelect to issue. Sad.
Yes, provinces took top individual charts. Most through being useless to the kingdom they are in... or through farming out other accounts. How many time have I heard people say 'don't outgrow your kingdom'. So if I don't do that in a ghetto I now suck? Please... try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Don't talk to me about training provinces. We trained more provinces on how to play this game than ANY top kingdom ever has. For the rest I will refer to Palems post. 18-20 province kingdoms don't chart. Your fully recruited/account collected/ All provinces logging in at the drop of a hat kingdoms did. Sorry if our Ghetto couldn't compete with you elitists.
No you suck cause you havent been able to build a good kingdom even thou you spent years and years and year on it.Quote:
So if I don't do that in a ghetto I now suck? Please... try again.
lol, yet again you come with the accusations you have no proof of. Quit that holier than you attitude will ya, it dont do you any good at all.Quote:
We trained more provinces on how to play this game than ANY top kingdom ever has.
What, you had all that time to build a kd and you dont even manage to keep 25 provinces? I guess there is something wrong with you then and your so called "skills". I never been in a kingdom where all provinces manage to login in at the drop of a hat, it takes planning, to do such things. Neither have i been in a kd where all provs were traded, there was usually a core of people that played toghter and learned to know each other. But I wasnt even talking about competing with the top, i said a decent kd, a decent kd used to be around top 50 ish.Quote:
18-20 province kingdoms don't chart. Your fully recruited/account collected/ All provinces logging in at the drop of a hat kingdoms did.
No. Trading is legal now and has been for awhile. Any previously benefits that the trading kds had over non-trading kds has long since evaporated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
However, pre-legal trading, it's a bit of an issue. Playing poorly is inexcusable, however I don't equate building a kd without breaking the rules to sucking. Building a kd is easier with trading and leads to an almost entirely different game if you are trading. Take for example, some kind of a First Person Shooter that lets you melee or something. The ultimate goal is to beat the game. You went ahead and shot while we just tried to melee. So if you managed to beat the game while shooting, but the other person only got 70% of the way through the game by just melee'ing, you have absolutely no right to say that the other person sucks until you go through and not only do what they do, but do it considerably better than them.
But I have most likely done everything that you done considerably better, lets put it like this, if i only had a knife in CS and you had a range of weapons of your choice I would still be the one killing you and not the other way around (without cheating) Okey enough ego posts, but honestly, if i spent say 5 years building a kingdom from scratch I am pretty sure i would make it a top 50 kingdom easily. Cause we are on two different levels of dedication to the gameQuote:
you have absolutely no right to say that the other person sucks until you go through and not only do what they do, but do it considerably better than them.
What's this we stuff? I haven't spent 5 years trying to build anything.
What I'm saying is, unless you're doing the same thing, then you have no right to cast judgment about other people's skills. If Fates wants to bring up pre-trading issues and say he that you're superiority on the charts at the time was tainted, he's well within his rights to do that.
However, if he wants to argue his playing by the rules has still limited his success, then I can not help him because as far as I'm aware, everyone's on equal ground.
Well all this really goes back to Fates Warning, he claimed that he played bla bla bla years you butted into a conversation i had with fates warning so its a bit odd. So, anyway unless you are doing the same thing you cant cast judgement upon me then? Yet you done it quite alot in this thread.. Its funny how things works, i bet you gonna say that it dont work bothways ..
Where did I throw judgments about skill around? My stance for a long time now has been that they are definitely more skilled than I am, or at least their leadership is.
If I did say something along the lines of "I'm better than them", I apologize. Most likely a heat-of-the-moment thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlTvWvfEMxE
No I'm saying you cheated even though you didn't think it was cheating. Just like trading Kds cheated by trading even though they thought it was ok 'because they didn't think it was cheating.'Quote:
Originally Posted by Fates Warning
Yea you can say YOU never cheated, but you always claimed that YOUR whole KD never cheated which you can't claim for sure. So why else did your KD suck then?
What is it about trading that ticks you off? You think that your clean conscious is the only thing that can justify you failing at this game? So sorry not only do you suck but your also a cheater, sucks when reality bites huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
take Wrath of Abs over Eq any day .......... when you warred Wrath you knew about it.
you are ****ty player sir. Deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fates Warning
Also Realest, I dont remember anyone mentioning your name in my kd so I have no idea who you are talking about...