hey wtf flogger, i never farmed!
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hey wtf flogger, i never farmed!
Off topic, but Palem is 2 different people. - And still off topic; can guys tag for crying out loud? I'm too lazy to keep notes on coordinates. - On topic. You guys do whatever makes you comfortable instead of all this discomfort.
Only HoH isn't tagged??? Granted Fratzia has notice up still but we were tagged all age.Quote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle
Sorry about that then, I got the impression that you are in RBL and have been for several ages which would have meant you were in Rage which where Abs until Abs disbanded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
Abs decided that AMA vs Sanct round2 wasn't a valid hostile and Havoc proceeded to hit into that hostile because they didn't stand a chance to win in a fair fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
Abs threatened AMA with gb if they accepted a farmout from PewPew, so if they had it would have been the exact same situation as this, so yes they did.
Abs also threatened to Gb Dreams unless they kicked about half the kingdom and did in fact proceed to gb Dreams for refusing, so yes they've threatened to gb kingdoms unless they keeled over and died.
So yes Abs has done most if not all of those things, sorry if I wrongly accused you of being Abs but that was the impression I got of you.
Sorry megas you weren't denied crown that age, rage was. You were #3 and rage had huge lead over you after beating all aabs kds one by one.Quote:
Originally Posted by MegasX
"Abs threatened AMA with gb if they accepted a farmout from PewPew, so if they had it would have been the exact same situation as this, so yes they did."
There is a difference between two kingdoms agreeing one of them farmout to the other and the current situation. You are smart enough to understand this.
"Abs also threatened to Gb Dreams unless they kicked about half the kingdom and did in fact proceed to gb Dreams for refusing, so yes they've threatened to gb kingdoms unless they keeled over and died."
Those people declared an alliance war on Absalom , then after a few weeks, they deleted and quit the game. No surrender, no deal was worked out, you really think they would be allowed to form a new kingdom and come back without consequences?
Pewpew farmed out to SWEA and gave them the crown, then they do the same and farmout to RBL. And what ppl get from it is that it's all AMA fault. So tell me about consequences and threatening with GB for a reason. Also it is f*cking ridiculous. People blamed Elit for threatening RBL, now RBL get to keep what they want and it is still his fault. If I was him I wouldn't have bothered to do diplo for 3 straight days with 8 kds just to avoid GB. It seems that some people will always hate no matter what happens.
This was some of the weakest **** i have ever seen in the top and all of the KDs included here is so lame that i dont even have words for it.
All i can say is that i am very glad we choose to stay out of t10 this age.
This kind of thing sickens me, i feel like puking. Not sure who is worst, Rage for bending over and playing the honorable card or the other side.
I think the most fitting word i can find for this is P A T H E T I C
What would you have preferred happen anri ??
He's just trolling don't mind him :).
From what I heard AMA wasn't involved in it at all, PewPew threatened to farm out to AMA so Abs told AMA if they farm Pew/let Pew farm there would be gb, there was never any implied agreement from the sources I've heard. But yes an agreed farmout would obviously be different, on the other hand it is practically impossible to know wether it was agreed on or if the farmout merely decided to stop fighting in the war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourreau
Yes I never said it might not have been warranted, I just stated that yes Abs has been known for demanding that kd's keel over and die or face gb, personally I think that forcefully removing RBL's acres if they had refused to take themselves out of the fight would have been warranted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourreau
Since farming out is a Simians specialty I'm sure that Anri is very upset that people took a stance against it since that implies that Simians may be prevented from being Simians in future ages, should they ever stop ghettobashing and try for the charts again that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
I am not trolling at allQuote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Hunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
Server war is what should have happened... Total initialization of all offenders just like we did when we crushed Echo.
How about a little something called hostile and war?Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
Instead of BS diplomatics for hours and hours ending up in endless conversations everywhere.
Here is what needs to be done, since you are a bunch of clowns imo.
AMA/BB/Jerks = GB pewpew to hell.
Rage joins the GB vs pewpew to cancel out Rage having free pump/growth meanwhile the rest GB pewpew.
After this challenge each other like men instead of run and make diplomatics around everything.
That wont be horribly productive for the forums and it'll just put the focus on nitpicking each item. The majority of your "critics" may be the other side of the argument but remember your allies will rarely criticize you to your face and there arent alot of treuly neutral people that post in these forums. So if u want how it looks from below, with if anything a bias FOR your side (going into the past age i'd been treated better by anit-abs v abs), feel free to msg me on irc, PersainCAT, i'm always online even if afk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Hunter
With reguards to specifically pewpew. If anything i'd be more on your side. The last time we went big we got hit by them in our war. It cost us BOTH our cows and any shot at fighting rage/sanc and ultimately HoH that age. So i feel for the geting **** played. However, our response was to say fine, your gonna do that we'll just beat u down again. We'll use standard play to war you as we have no cf and not let u pass us in land again that age. We didnt get angry we didnt hit them in a future war. Sure we cried that their play was unethical, sure we admitted that why they hit us was on the verge of reasonable but we didnt do "anything" back. And that style of play cost us our age goal of waring abs, because post conflict we simply didnt have the banks to fight abs. Thing is though we even got an apology from PewPew post age about the way we got treated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Hunter
Compare that to last age, how did your relationship go with pewpew when they screwed you guys over by waring strippers all those times? I'm pretty sure you didn't get an im sorry from them, you got somone that was bitter even an age later, bitter enough to cause rage to go from 100k->200k acres in a war. Even lets say they didnt do that to spite you, they just chose to farm out to land drop and war other kds. The response for that is to what gang up and say...eh u got free acres, u shouldn't have u, either land-drop, get gb'ed, or agree to not win? Thats not going with the flow, and accepting what happens thats punishing someone.
I mean i can see why BB/jerks might want something like this. Because if i were rage i'd want to fight AMA right now too, best shot of geting a war and winning. And that war would/could screw over jerks/bb...all because ama made pewpew bitter last age. Thing is if i were bb/jerks i'd rather lose the age than do this type of deal. I'd also be angry that AMA cost me a chance to crown due to their relationship with pewpew, and i'd blame pewpew for costing me the age. However, prior to this age with the way pewpew farmed out last age i'd of built into my cf the ability to gain off ama should pewpew do this type of thing. Maybe something like if pewpew farms out to someone AMA cant war that target? Thats y i'd warn people about a cf deal with AMA, u have an enemy a cf should acknowledge that.
you want some support, you call for the support. When Simians pulled **** we got hurt badly with PKs and well thousands of hits. I dont see what has changed. Man up ffs
The game needs to be changed in such a way that there would be alliance wars, and diplomacy would be too hectic to prevent alliance wars.
Get rid of WW charts and WWs, and get rid of banking (make everyone play for land/nw). Then we have more big kingdoms, and more people getting pissed at eachother.
Flogger's median idea for exploring could help get rid of unbreakables, then we just need to rid of the WW/Honor charts.
+1. Pot meets kettel, something I kind of expect from Elit (he plays like old Absalom), not flogger (someone who throughout his entire history has been against such things supposedly).Quote:
Originally Posted by MegasX
Elit we made a deal because we wasnt even out of a Real war we entered and you guys was already spinning up your PR, GB, dealbreaking machine to try to farm us with your ****play OOW. Regardless what outcome was, doesnt change the fact in the complete BS, disrepectful, and bully-like manner in which you approached our KD. A new KD that has done nothing to any of your KD's. I like Elit that you like to constantly talk **** about how bad Rage did this or that to you, yet you recruited the person responsible for all of those decisions that you hate so much. This shows the utter nonsense that you use to win at any costs and make yourself look like the game's biggest hypocrite. I am sick of hearing you act like your being fair to RBL because you are not, get over yourself. The answer to ****play and people doing BS isnt more of the same. Get real.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Actually yeah flogger. Remember last round when your same group of KD's (you, your allies, and those u eoacf'ed) was involved in same old GB, deal-breaking, farming ****? We didnt get involved because it is pointless and all of you basically show why you fail to crown and dominate in such a small landscape. Wow must be nice to live in a fantasy of your own creation. The truth is since Absalom stepped out of Utopia you guys have basically made everything that is considered to be lame-play the prevalent things done in Utopia. You are someone I thought I would never lose respect for, sadly that day has come. You have become what you hate the most, the circle is complete. You do realize how many time just recently Rage has lost a crown due to the exactly play you are referring to, and last time Absalom acted on someone it had nothing to do with that. So stop trying to talk for Absalom when your just trying to defend your n00blike BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
+1. Sets a very bad precedent. Dont worry though, those that are setting it wont like it when some of us reorganize with that as the case. You know what happens when we organize Anri ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
Be careful what you wish for you might just get it. Some have forgotten they arent the only ones who used to dominate in this game and feel like they are untouchable, unstoppable, or special. None of which is true. A storm is coming, as some have said before, get out your raincoats and boots.
That was KLA and ECHO. They know what will happen if we actually get serious. We have yet to lose when organized and pissed. I would be very worried ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch
That is exactly what I suggested to both Elit and flogger. Sadly they was more interested in ****playing us and actioning us than actually being concerned about the real problem. I wonder why that is? Even now they act like what they did to RBL was right when RBL did not arrange nor fight a FW. Flogger/Elit had no right to act on RBL when they have yet to organize anything formal against Pew Pew. This would be if they was 100% right and RBL was 100% wrong, same with them dealbreaking and lame playing. You dont excuse being lame by saying someone else is being lame. Dafuq.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
Wow. AMA should been GBed or forced to landdrop after warring malevolence last age.
I dont often agree alot with PS, but man you are spot on and if ama and there ****playing freinds bb/ej think rage is alone in the growing hate they be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion
EvulTroll and PS - take ur pills now! U forgot again! I know its hard to remember .... well anything but take them ... come on stop looking at the damn screen and take your bloody pills! And someone please give Anri a banana ... there is an unhappy monkey here throwing its poo all over the place. TAKE YOUR DAMN PILLS! Jeeez
guard14n passes a banana to Anri. Good monkey.
You're right on the latter part, and the general hope is that the alliance that's stronger is relatively reasonable. For the most part abs was fairly reasonable but there were ofc a few instances where others didn't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by MegasX
There was plenty of flamefest the age simians farmed out by plenty, dunno if it was from sanc or not, but that's a little different circumstance in the fact that one of you 3 were definitely going to win and the farmout only affected which one of you did. It had a lasting effect on the actual crown winner because abs never made an agreement to fight eachother in such spots, which was why I left abs to begin with. The age after I left abs, for example, ZZ was in our group and we were 1/2 and fought for the crown the last week after the non-abs kds had won.
But in sanctuary's case, its a little hard for you to flamefest simians for farming out to one of your allies after they farmed out to your ally because you hit in their war. If I recall that age simians was likely going to lose to any of the three of you, all the abs kds had the time (1 tick when notice expired) to initiate on them in fort, none did, simians initiated on HoH, war was declared and sanctuary then hit into them after war was declared. Fairly hard for Sanctuary to flamefest that since they both had the opportunity to get the fight themselves by hitting into fort and to not discourage simians by not waving into their war giving them no chance.
lol are you serious? All of those things happened all of the time. We would talk, you know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
There can't be though. Intent can't be the determining factor since you can never prove it. I can easily 100% make a farm war that no one could ever prove much more convincing than one kingdom giving all their land (pew) and one kingdom getting like 5 provinces of theirs severely learned, which is about all the damage rage took here. Its entirely possible that a member of rage knew the farmout would occur when the other 24 players did not. You cannot base it on whether it was agreed upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourreau
There's only one person, for a more recent example, who knows what happened between havoc and BB last age, and I'm not one of them. So since I don't know, under that logic, I should have just declared opposed to ceasefiring (which every single person in my kingdom wanted me to do). It's the action that matters, not the intent.
Not that this is intended to be a dig on rage, but razing the acres was the right thing to do, and it just takes a strong enough leader to do something that would be so wildly unpopular in their own kingdom like me ceasefiring havoc last age, and I realize there are very few kingdoms/leaders left who have that ability without disbanding their own kingdom. Kingdoms that work with large councils cannot.
So if I'm drixx and I know if I raze the acres half my kd will revolt, I would not do it either.
Game mechanics are responsible for **** play. Usually for a game to be good there is a balanced risk/reward factor. Now one kd that has advantage (low risk) can completely farm another (big reward).
I'm not going to bother writing an analysis on the subject but game should be balanced so same size provinces are unbreakable oow. Also bringing back land based gains (not nw) will establish a hierarchy. Bigger kd should have an advantage so there is no anarchy like now.
We didnt hit into that war.Atleast I dont remember so.If there were one or two hits it was because we didnt notice they were in war.I asked everyone to stop hits immediately as soon as we noticed they entered a war.Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
...wut?Quote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle
••*•*••• ***•*•••
Agree with tag.Quote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle
People and their dumb**** themes (my kd included).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
First time EVER that I have agreed with Anri... this is such a flipping joke. Lets not kid ourselves here... the impact is bigger than it looks. Likely Rage would not be able to hold those acres, but whats really happening here is AMA gets them removed from contention for 100% and is free to farm further down the list. Without this they would have to spend a week tied up with rage meanwhile leaving fratzia/hoh/someone else to further grow/pump. This just basically hands it over and screws the rest of the t5 that arent in the BB/AMA/EJ club.
bravo morons.
I appreciate the opposing opinions in the thread, and I can see that apparently there has not yet been enough ****play that people are tired enough for it that all can agree to end it. People should really not delude themselves though on one point: If we had fought, it would have been because we felt there was something to gain by doing so. Ultimately we would have farmed a huge chunk of acres to either AMA or BB, so in the end nobody is "screwed" by our choice to take the chart shaping out of play. Nobody was going to overcome whichever of those two kds finally ran us out of gas and then took us for 30k+ acres plus warwin bonus.
To believe someone could have somehow caught up to the 270k+ range and beat AMA or BB after they were done farming us and then beat them is so unrealistic so as to seem like merely a pretense for stirring the pot.
I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. When intentional farmout cost Rage crowns, I was angry about it. Playing kingmaker or "going down with a fight" would have been highly hypocritical. I put forward an attempt to make a statement about the top needing some agreed upon standards and the backbone to enforce them, regardless of whether violators are friends or foes. People will either get tired enough of the ****play and that will happen, or it will continue to get worse until there ceases to be any game.
We aren't going to tolerate any ****play we have the power to stop going forward. I believe we've put our money where our mouth is and when we say that we play with clean ethics, we've demonstrated that we mean it. Even though BB/AMA/EJ are our opponents, it would be ethically wrong to screw them out of a fair competition. So when we step in and take action against ****play in the future, nobody will be able to say we're doing it only because it benefits us. Take a look at this thread and see people who are friends, allies and even one of the people in my kingdom who is in our leadership who are angry with this decision. Making it cost us an ally (at least for the moment ... I'm hoping that time will calm things down a bit, but we'll see). This decision clearly wasn't made for our benefit.
If you have ethical standards and you really believe in them, sometimes that obligates you to act against your own self-interest. The game has devolved into the state it is at the top right now because kds don't apply a consistent ethical standard in all cases. It's much like warring really. Sometimes you have the advantage and sometimes you don't. If you change you ethics to suit your benefit, then you have no ethics. I hope that all of the top kds will take some time to consider the past few ages and to put themselves in the shoes of the kds who got ****played and screwed and that we can find common ground and stop manipulating what 'fair' and 'right' mean.
That said, RBL has two core things which make up our ethos, and in this instance they were in conflict. We always fight hard and won't run from a fight (so you won't see us arranging to war a 3rd party because we have the disadvantage) and we play ethically. Given the very large amount of ****play these last few ages, I felt that ethics superseded the "go down fighting" mentality.
I don't want anyone to misconstrue what I said in the previous sentence so let me be very clear. Giving notice to a kd doesn't entitle you to fight them. The proper thing to do if a kd fights someone else is to simply wait and hit them afterward. I personally believe that running from fights causes more problems for the kd running, but if someone runs, that doesn't make it acceptable to ****play them.
Top kds and alliances or friendly kds to one another would do well to consider that things shift frequently and while it's easy to walk all over people when you have the power to prevent them from fighting back, the scales will eventually tip away from your favor, and people have long memories. Better for all, I think, if people would get together and wipe the slates all clean and start fresh with a commitment to play with whatever standards everyone can agree to live with. Whenever you all get tired enough of the ****play, we'll be around.
Sure you did, and now after talking with Webbie you're more likely to know who Nailz was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Realest
Respect to Drixx for his reall and objective view in situation. Choice never was GB, its was 1vs1 war where its clear Rage cant survive but this will give huge advantage AMA over BB or BB over AMA and its unfair for all involved. Was hard for all us to make deal but im glad we made it. Cant understand why haters/trolls wanted to see us GB/Farm Rage.
Yeah and this is why they would've been GB'd, why AMA get the cake, we want some tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Elit
saD.
Why not just apply to AMA? After all a kingdom would be hard-pressed to have too many Batmen.
I would say this agreement is a massive victory for AMA, BB and Jerks. They have taken out on of strongest competitors without a fight and get as bonus to it RBL blocking the rest for them. Congratz on getting the top 3 spots nameless alliance :)
Taking those acres out of the competition one way or another is the only way to deny PewPew's lameass move, yes it might adversely affect the rest of the kingsoms in top 5 or so but maybe they'll learn to not let PewPew ever get large enough that they can farm out in a sizeable enough way that it significantly affects to race. Had the acres not been taken out of the race one way or another then PewPew's gambit would have succeeded altho I guess they would have been pretty pissed if the one's who had ended up farming those acres had been AMA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono
Well then my friend you are the deluded one... because if what you say is true then you did not need to agree to any thing with any one because the whole PewPew situation would not have an effect. As I said before its not the land that would have impacted the race as much as its the fact that AMA/whoever would have had to tie up TIME in getting it from you. Instead you block yourself, AMA notices HoH a week earlier (gee what could they have done with another week...) and are free and clear to take it home. By trying not to impact the charts YOU actually just shaped them. Congrats you are now part of their alliance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drixx
Epic Stupidity.
I think the goals were achieved. The top was forced to stick to their word, and so is Rage. I don't see the lame move here, as we clearly pointed out the issues with the top and the constant CFs, while bullying all other kingdoms. Sadly we had to make it so transparent by not leting Rage fight the brutal fight that we might have put up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elldallan
What you should be advocating is that the game changes into more competitivness where CFs are less rewarding. As it is today it's all about who gets the most CF and make them expire by a reason or just prefectly in time to farm another kingdom.
I fail to see the diffrence of being farmed by a kd that you have no chances against, or to farm out in such a way that your opponents have to think twice before acting behind your back or tying to outplay you by using weaker kds.
Today the game is demoralizing to any kd that competes it's way to the top, which baisicly means that no "new" and active or skillfull kds can match up later in the set, because they are so behind in both acres and sience.
This makes building new kingdoms and attracting new players hard because the succes takes so long time to achieve sucess.
You may dislike us, I have nothing against that, but at least try to think outside of the box, and look at the bigger picture of all the play, rather than only focusing on who is to blaim and who is not.
Everytime I think about coming back to Utopia I read theses forums and see that the politics, ****playing, and poor game mechanics which allow it to happen seem to get worse and worse.
The thread title is A Resolution: On Ethics and Top Play. But the only thing I see is Rage backing down from threats of dealbreaks and GB. Rage did nothing wrong on their part, but are the ones being punished! How is that ethical?
A Resolution should be a public statement which shows how the top will deal with farming. Signed by Rage, the ABE alliance, and the other whoring kingdoms. And it should've been done at the start of the age, because Pewpew farming out was not a suprise to anyone. Otherwise, it becomes a case-by-case situation and the more powerful alliance will simply dictate the terms as it benefits them.
Past ages Rage gets ****played and does nothing. This age Rage is the beneficiary of ****play but has to give up the age.
Drixx, my guess is most of your kdmates would rather finish in 8th place this age fighting through a dealbreak & gangbang than finish in 4th place by sitting on their butts the rest of the age. What happens if next age you are #1 kd and the #5 kd farms out to the #2 kd? If you take yourself out of this age, you should be getting some assurances from ABE that it will not be allowed it to happen. Not in private either a PUBLIC decree. Otherwise it just seems like you got outplayed in the diplomacy arena.