Humans are freaking ridiculous. Most NW-efficient and cheap elites, free science, strongest army by far, fast start (5/0 offspecs + free science + QF). -20% Gains hurts, but match them up with some orcs and I would be pretty scared
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Humans are freaking ridiculous. Most NW-efficient and cheap elites, free science, strongest army by far, fast start (5/0 offspecs + free science + QF). -20% Gains hurts, but match them up with some orcs and I would be pretty scared
really weakened the avian gladly give back the extra general and no ambush thing for a +1 offensive specialist strength and even a minor training time credit,,, also the halfer why no hospital? why not just a decrease in birth rate to balance the increase in pop. don't you want action in this game? imo decisions on race a personality should be made to increase activity not less. how about just shorten the attack time across the server drop it to say 12 or 13 hours as the default
Avian sucks? I think with +1 gen they're quite strong in long wars, and ambush immunity is really helpful. The price point on Drakes is such that training them mid-war is possible.
I'm not playing next age. Bit disappointed there were no changes to mechanics or metagame.
The -20% gains on Human is pretty harsh if running lots of Humans. As big cows Humans are epic, but running lots of them is problematic. Running a few Humans can turn really bad unless they're in growth kingdoms. In my experience, mixing Humans with other stuff isn't all that great.
Inflating elite nw across the board is an interesting way to balance races. Elf gets a big boost from that, more than many are presuming.
I would really look forward to running lots of Halfer/Rogue next age, if I were playing. The combination of +TPA, population, and Rogue traits is strong enough, but what happened with other races makes it easier. There still needs to be a few heavy hitters to keep defenses honest, prolly Humans for the OME and turtle ability.
I don't see why people are still underrating Elf. They're more securable than they were this age, and Elf didn't have too many issues if they weren't expecting total immunity. Due to the increase in elite nw, their nw range crappiness is less of an issue,.
Restricting ToG is long overdue, and Merchant has taken a big step up because of it.
I don't know why anyone would pick Cleric next round. Dwarf is still pretty weak in these changes, and they were the best Cleric fit. Humans would do much better with Merch or Sage, and the other pure attacker persos have better perks for most races.
WH is pretty awesome for Humans and Elves I think.
I actually really like this post. Very brief/precise. I also like those suggestions. Totally agree with maybe nerfing Dwarf elites to 6/2. Orc/Human -- I'd still actually like to see the -20%s, but no lower than -15%. Good suggestion on Warrior. That's a fun War Hero bonus!! Sage -- though I dislike, is probably more balanced that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by bombdigie
Nice job.
I didn't look at it that way...I mean, you're totally right, but I figured that the -20% gains would scare people away from them being overplayed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeni
Because its an awful tradition. Faeries should at the very least get the +1 D spec, and leet value should be more like 2/6 or 1/7.Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsdk
I just feel like almost every combination is an attacker based strategy.
Sure, having fat fat cows brings some problems. But why gate Halfers into being A/T? Elfs A/T? Fae M/A?
Give Elf some more magic power! Making towers and guilds 50% more effective would do the trick, or double honor bonuses for WPA multipliers.
Very disappointed in Dwarf past few ages as well. Just a big blob of NW since no fog. Dwarf needs a specialty, the BE and free building just don't quite do it. Maybe a new spell that boosts OME, since fog is gone, or double the sci bonus multipliers for BE! Dwarf hasn't changed in the past few ages.
As much as I'd like to see a serious attacker bonus for elf, 40% WPA bonus WOULD mitigate the complaint that it's not superior enough to faery and provide additional efficiency.
Forgot to mention...
Thank you devs and those involved for getting potential changes out this early! This is something that has been asked for many times and I believe the potential changes came out before anyone even asked for them! Great job devs!! Thanks!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeni
Human doesn't have +1 off spec
he might be taking efficiency bonus into account, which makes them 4.8/0 offspecsQuote:
Originally Posted by nameisis
human mounts are 1.2 too
Just keep the suggested changes as they are. Someone is going to whine about them anyways no matter what you do. Lock them down and let people work with them next age like we do every age.
Wouldn't it be easier to not post suggested changes at all in that case? And why would you want that?Quote:
Originally Posted by neanderthal
Changes are OK except that tacticians been kinda boring now for a couple of ages. Only undead seem to be interested in picking them so maybe give them something that ud won't profit from like -20% food needed?
Avian: Don't Touch
Dwarf: 6/2; Too Tanky, now that ToG is gone Sage way too powerful on Dwarf
Orc: -15% Science
Human: -15% Gains
Undead: Don't Touch
Halflings = 20% WPA, 50% TPA, 4 Defense Cheap Thieves Cheap Defense
Elf = 30% WPA, 10% TPA, 5 Defense Cheap Defense
Faery = 20% WPA, 10% TPA, +20% Damage, +1 Mana/Stealth 5 Defense Expensive Defense
An elf will have a 62.5% WPA Bonus against Halfling and Faery with Mage Fury active x = 1.3/.8 = 1.625. T/M is very balanced. Don't Touch.
Warrior: +10% OME Hostile, +20% OME War
War Hero: +40% War Win Bonus (Including Province Land)
Elf doesn't have MF as of now in prop changes. Halfer has it and Faery because of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by bombdigie
MF reduces mwpa on defense. So when the halfling and faery activated it, the difference with elf mwpa when elf tries to cast on faery or halfling becomes bigger that way.
Humans should have +10% ome and only -5% gains really. But I agree let's get the changes locked down for next age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
20/20 is more fun :)
1) Remove sage
2) Give +50% military sci efficiency to cleric, tact, and warrior.
3) return tog to humans(and thus faeries)
4) make ToG not available in normal/aggressive stance.
5) give amnesia to elf.
6) Make honor a kd resource evenly distributed between provs. Honor is only awarded for WW and for getting 30 hostile points when the other side is not unfriendly, 60 when other kd is not hostile, and 100 when other kd is not hostile. The hostile "victory" bonuses are awarded with the same penalties as if the kd nw's were prov nw's hitting eachother, with a base of something(maybe 1%).
7) if kd hits 60 points while other kd is not hostile gains are SEVERELY limited.
8) If a kd hits 100 points while other side is not hostile or is between 50 and 100 for 48 hours while other kd is not hostile then a 1 week cf is instantly started.
9) Make hitting into war impossible. This includes eowcf.
10) Give WH a % increase to KD honor generation when said kd hits benchmarks.
Could do a lot of balancing with race/pers to make more strategic decision making(warrior could use a buff for example, and lots of other little things could be changed) and could implement a large amount of larger changes to make the game flow more smoothly and be more interactive in a fun way(as opposed to toxic way), but this would be sufficient for 1 round. Would let you see how it shakes out and balance next round accordingly.
yes to increased gains throttling against kingdoms that don't fight back, but no forced cfs.
the one really bad loophole about hitting into war is razekill-into-war. if you remove that but allow trads and such it's perfectly fine, kingdoms that run into war shouldn't be immune to hits entirely.
Topsy, you are about 2-3 weeks too late. As per the initial post the core changes will be roughly as they are now with only minor number tweaks. The time for large change suggestions is not when the preliminaries are out.
!addreminder 11 weeks. Post suggestions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
I would love to see the undead and orc penalty swapped.
Undead - 20% gains
Orc - No rogue ops.
Give Faery MF
Warhero draft for free. People love to follow a hero.
Ork with no rogue ops and sci penalty. None will play it. Besides gain penalty is on Humans, Orks get gain increase.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiggis
why not spice things up and add in a new race? the part i like best about the game is the BIG differences between all the races. a bigger shake up is better IMO. maybe next age :)
Give all attackers MP plus GP plus TW.
Take the +1 gen avian has and give it to tactician and remove tacticians speed bonus.
Make TOG a racial spell again
Give merchant a bonus to banks
also -20% gains on human needs to be removed.
Just to be clear Khron, you want Human to look like this:
+20% OME
Every 3 acres produces 1 book of science
Spellbook: Fountain of Knowledge, Quick Feet, Tree of Gold
Elite: 6/3, 750, 5.75NW
and you think that's balanced?
Well, nearly the whole server will be human, so that's sort of a balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Avian general back to Warrior.
Dwarf BE to 25% at most.
Orc at -10% sci.
Halfling looks like a victim. Lose the +1 OS, improve the elite to 5/4.
Cut the human's OME bonus and gains penalty in half.
Cleric to 35% protection.
Can put in some kind of nerf but the gains nerf is no good... I'm not sure what kind of nerf there should be, but maybe only 10% OME, the science nerf was okay this age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
i vote still for 20 OME and -20% gains on humasn it gives diversity and is more interesting. Than 10/10 which is kind a meh and almost like no bonus/flaw at all.
Same as to other suggestions who wanna drop gen from avian, do that and avian will suck and none will play it again. Prop changes are good, just Elf a bit and be done
Faery has MF, hence the angst about elf not really having better wpa.
Everyone is worried about human+warrior epic +40%OME.
I say human+sage is the real nightmare. Without +science cost, human/sage can easily get +20% military efficiency or more via science. This includes +defense effectiveness and all other sweet benefit.
FOK+QF are incredibly strong spells. Humans needs 4 acres to 1 book + FOK removed on the very least.
YES you can get 20 ME, but that will cost you a ****ton + libs - it be so costly it be a complete waste of books at that rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meda
For a sage with libraries +20% ME isn't exactly impossible to get provided you're in a kingdom that can actually pump science, which 95% of the game isn't.
hu/sage is a boss under these changes.