I suggest you read the ToS you agreed to...Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximII
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I suggest you read the ToS you agreed to...Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximII
I like the changes overall, especially the changes to game mechanics. That will help with a lot of issues in the main player base.
One suggestion is to replace War Hero's elite conversion trait to an elite credit trait. Elite credits appear to have been dropped from human and haven't resurfaced to another race, and it's more valuable than converting spec units (especially late game when many have full elite militaries). I think this would bring good value to War Hero, a personality that is still not very useful to most players.
Also, with the additional value to horses, soldiers, prisoners/mercs I think elf and halfer would benefit from having +2 on their respective specs instead of keeping it +1. As it stands, an Orc who has a horse for every elite would break any T/M in range easily.
Actual changes, Bravo!
In comes the "Age of Breakables" or "The Broken Age"
The KD Wall is a decent concept but could create lower tier KDs. Lock in at 5 Provinces for example, or a 13 man KD, etc...you get the point. Feels a bit regressive given the 23 Prov auto-fill that was recently added.
As for everything else i'm sure there will be adjustments, but as things currently look it's an aggressive revamp of approach and strategies...Some old ways will become obsolete. With some luck the whole power heirarchy of Age 1 players vs Age 50> Players will see a dramatic shift. Either way, the drama will continue. That's for sure.
I actually love all of the changes. The changes to mechanics are awesome. Love the addition of heretic
The changes are good.
1. If elf can get the wpa boost instead of mystic, heretics will be more usable.
2. The elite values on undead should go down to 10/3 and orc to 11/2. This will make them more balanced and less overpowered.
3. EOWCF should be minimum 72 hours and the double wiz training should continue to help mystics who get aw/massaced recover
nice thanges thanx. Dorf feels kind a meh
If eowcf is being shortened can we have plague being auto-cured when entering it?. Having it stick around for 12h+ of your recovery period can bone you if you have a large pop gap to fill.
1. It would be useful to share the planned overall direction for the game as well when announcing the changes. Yes, keeping the game fun and attracting players is the main priority. But is the goal to encourage warring, encourage competing on land/nw charts, etc.?
2. I think ToG is a bane. Loved having it of course, but logging on every tick to max it out is not fun. It's not a skilful spell by any means. I feel it should just be removed and the game would be better for it.
3. Would a stepped EOWCF make more sense? Perhaps provide more buffs on the first day that drop off each day (e.g. No more +wizard growth, then training bonuses etc. Drop off) This could also encourage kingdoms to vary their EOWCF times. Those who want a tactical shorter EOWCF would do it. Those who just want a break with -75% gains protection will do that instead.
4. It's hard to balance the races and pefsonalities with so many changes, will there be one more round of proposed changes?
i can agree with plague being cleared. but this is how the game use to be. maybe not as roided out but similar with higher military values, reduced eowcf time, and worse fort. Hope you all are ready for a crazy age.
hey bishop. did your dick grow longer? how come all the numbers seem larger!
The Wall: New monarch option to block randoms provinces from joining a kingdom. Causes kingdoms wages to increase by 20%.
This is all good for top kingdoms, great benefit for them......and like no one else
maybe switch to 20% decrease
Quote:
Originally Posted by KvG
Top kingdoms are usually full
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
I posted it earlier on in this thread.
If they want more wars, they need to structure the game so EOWCF leaves you ready to go. Lower building costs, lower explore costs, 2x wiz pumping, faster building.
If they want people to play with less than 100% elite armies, they need to make it so you cannot have 100% elite armies. Make the wages for elites super high so you cannot economically support it.
Making elites expensive didn't change the gameplay when that was done previously. Making EOWCF short won't change it either.
People will just spend a ton of time pumping.
I would love to see the game shifted so armies were more typically a mix of specs/elites. It would make the game more dynamic IMO. It feels like that is what is trying to be done here.. but it isn't quite there.
homes.....people are happy because they dont have to live in a farm or in a stable. homes=be i thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Homes are for pop sci. Mill would 'work' if you perceive it develops tools for building and exploration needs, lowering costs via improved effectiveness. Though you need more than one building as there are more buildings to sci types available.
Would it be possible to give heretic access to a few lesser thief ops to open up ud heretic as an option?
I didn't have the time to look at all the numbers but I see the idea of giving thieves/mages less power in the game is nice imo, as this age they were overpowered.. KDs are playing almost half T/Ms..
With these changes even Faerys should play as hybrids consindering the low defence attackers will have and that's nice.
The age of attacking power :)
Keep it up on this line Bishop. Just balance a bit the numbers, but dont let more defence or stronger T/Ms in the game. Thanks.
I absolutely agree with this too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
i'd have libararies and schools and dungeons be pop science. smarter people means u can fit more into your kd, as does throwing a portion of your population into jail ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanka
Anyway with these changes all i see is
1. Elf/dwarf seem weak in the war tier.
-- Elf seems to stay weak in whore tier due to a weaker overall military while dwarf has the advantage of cheaper rebuilds when super big, and being able to out NW their enemy for "big" wars by going pure leet which again elf cant really do.
2. shorter eowcf is nice.
-TOP PLAY: It wont drastically change the top with notice deals and whatnot and just means early age you got a be SUPER careful and if locked into an early war start doing your diplomacy asap.
-WAR TIER: Shortening eowcf is fine ISH because eowcf+explore->fort should keep most kds safe enough for nothing to change still typical 96 hours of safety. However....if i attack and go to bed then we win next tick i will have what amounts to low farms, no banks, minimal homes and a good portion of my land unbuilt for 8 hours. It then takes me 12-16 hours to get built assuming i even have the gc to remove the 30% wt and 40% gs i was running. Now we're probably 24 hours into our 48 hour eowcf and i JUST started making income. Since before i had most of my buildings "being built" my peasants were jobless...and well litterally the only thing im going to be able to do is draft and train using my ww credits. Its even worse if i lose because im probubly 0 def, and barely making money when we have to enter fort. Personally this gets solved by 1. Always max pop during eowcf. 2. 2 hour rebuild time (1 hour accelerated) 3. Peasants cannot starve during eowcf. 4. unemployed peasants provide full wages.
Those 4 things make it so you can 1/2 get your prov kickstarted for rebuilding, 3. sleep without losing all your military due to starvation (if instant max pop), 4. generate enough money to actually raze/rebuild your prov in a reasonable time.
err....edit=double post?
Aprils fools
So avians can now ride horses?
Word has it that the horses are actually riding the avians.
The Wall: New monarch option to block randoms provinces from joining a kingdom. Causes kingdoms wages to increase by 20%.
i preffer to see it in an other way:
The wall: if steward and monarch both decided to get rid of random/player/province, they must both push a button and as penalty the kingdom wages increase by 20%
then it becomes a strategy to get rid of random immediately (ennemy can`t rob his gc in war or take free acres) with penalty or just wait till the monarch has the option automatically
Can we remove plague incite riots and negative buffs(MS, Chastity, etc) automatically at end of war. 48 hour EOWCF is a bit too short when you have few more ticks to deal with plague and negative buffs. I know NB can remove plague but with few guilds and low runes at end of war 48 ticks with negative buffs just make things really difficult.
Some suggestions:
1- Give PWCF the same effects as fort, I don't see a reason to differentiate the two.
2- Make ToG a mystic only spell, having it on faery makes elf redundant
3- Take clear sight off orc (which will also double as a nerf to faery) and make it tact only, its far too powerful to have on the juggernaut that is orc and the clearcut strongest TM that is faery.
4- Make vermin a default spell that anyone can cast, it's not strong enough to warrant a personality only spell and would open up some new war strats
5- Give rogue Fools Gold to compensate for #4
On the horses part... why dont give it a army return speed bonus. Say send 5k troops with 5k horses, army will be back 50% earlier. 5k leets with 2.5k horses only 25% quicker.
Reduce the offense a bit, 11 and 12 may be a bit too much.
Depending on buildings, you can have a very very fast army due rax and horses, or more TGs for a higher offense.
Some suggestions:
Dwarf:
Elite - 8/6
Elf:
+30% WPA
Elite - 8/5
Faery:
Elite - 5/10
Halfling:
Elite - 6/8
Human:
+5% Pop
The Heretic:
Some ideas:
Chance on spell cast to refund mana
Chance on spell cast to return a portion of targets resource (runes?)
Chance on op to refund stealth
Chance on op to return a portion of targets resource (GC? Bushels?)
+15% TPA
+15% WPA
You mean the ToS that I agreed to back in 2003 when I created my account and paid for a Platinum Membership? For some reason I doubt they are the same as they are now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
No, the tos you agree to every time you play the game. Not that this is even slightly relevant, back on topic please.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximII
Why not make changes? its not like they can't be reversed if they don't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
People are using eowcf and fort as a crutch to be 100% ready oow and no one is in normal any more. Good chance fort will be tweaked further in later ages.
Dwarf no longer has any BE bonus. Elf has no WPA bonus. Deliberate proposed changes or just a couple of typos? If correct then they seem like HUGE race nerfs to me. It's been many years since I posted on these forums. Nice to be back.
The problem is fort, not EOW CF. People are barely anymore in normal because they're in fort. You reduce EOW CF you will only increase down-time. Right now it's possible to do:Quote:
People are using eowcf and fort as a crutch to be 100% ready oow and no one is in normal any more. Good chance fort will be tweaked further in later ages.
4 days EOW CF
2 days fort
war
4 days EOW CF
2 days fort
war
If you win the war you can even do 4 days EOW CF and 1 day fort (depending on how pumped your opposition is).
By shortening EOW CF you will get this:
2 days EOW CF
1 day fort (people will activate fort 24 hours ahead in order to have full fort protection when they come OOW)
1 day normal and getting raped
2 days fort
1 day normal while stacking and not getting raped
2 days fort
war
this this this this this! Fortified breeds laziness in its current incarnation, especially the crutch of the "We need to go Fort to train and rebuild" mentality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Along the lines of tweaking future Fortified status, removal of the construction time bonus and the military cost bonus would be a bold move. Replace with more flexible protections, such as equalizing the protection slide in values (meaning attacks out don't instantly get the 50% penalty).
Change the base build time to 12 hours to synchronize with base attack times. Builders Boon then lowers it to synchronize with Barracks usage to decrease attack times. Synergy is your friend!
No this! Fort and EOW CF are different things with a different function! Do not treat equally plox!Quote:
this this this this this! Fortified breeds laziness in its current incarnation, especially the crutch of the "We need to go Fort to train and rebuild" mentality.
The problem now is the dynamic of trying to protect your stupid science between wars.
If your KD is going to have to sit in normal you have to do expensive rebuilds to shift into schools, you then are not war ready because you are sitting on 20% schools which are useless in war -- so you get back into fort asap in order to recover from whatever damage was taken in during normal and shift builds back to war if a war comes up.
It isn't a crutch, it is the reality of the game for the majority of utopia that is not in a top kd and gets fed on by larger kds.
All the change does it make that situation worse.
48 hours EOWCF honestly is a joke. That is hardly enough time to even recover your population let alone any military -- We won a war last night, about 10 hours later I am 19k/29k pop and will be about 20% drafted.
It will be completely unmanageable with 48 hours, it makes no sense at all why this would be change. You need the 4 days to take a mental break from being online 24/7 for the war, you need the 4 days also because mathematically it takes right around that long for a province to rebuild from war.
Unless you change EOWCF mechanics 48 hours simply is not enough time. So many KDs go EOWCf -> Fort because the average player can't even rebuild in the 4 day eowcf period.
I doubt people are giving Heretic any real serious considerations. Since we are mixing things up, I think that with each successful spell cast, they should have a chance to kill the targets wizards! That'll make s' interesting.
IMO the issue with heretic is the difficulty in pumping WPA for non mystics.Quote:
Originally Posted by 40oz
Elf/Rogue worked well for us this age because of 2x wiz pumping and elfs inherent WPA boost.
It allowed us to run rogues with relatively high MWPA giving them the ability to really contribute with fireball efforts and nightmares.
I cannot see how a heretic could do the same next age -- there is nothing in place to allow them to have a WPA advantage.
The thing that would work well is using heretic for thievery ops -- i'm just not sure what race I would try to shoehorn in as a A/T this age. Maybe halfer/heretic? The -50% thief cost would be nice from the perspective of growing and being able to affordably retrain TPA to keep your numbers up.
Make learn attacks or find wars faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry0
http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...Age-52-Changes We have played in these harsh stance times before, we can do it again.
Only suggestion I have is knocking down orc/undead elite offense to 10/9 or atleast 10 apiece. forgot both avian and human would need to lose 1 elite off point if they were dropped to 9.
maybe increase the cost of elites. across the board
Love the changes, looking forward to them!