Hm ok.. well I have around 15 years experience with Utopia and 10 years experience building commercial web applications including automated spam and/or cheating detection. That's something, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
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Hm ok.. well I have around 15 years experience with Utopia and 10 years experience building commercial web applications including automated spam and/or cheating detection. That's something, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Well... first thing you learn in the software industry is "low effort" isn't exactly going to cut it... If you're happy with that, good on you, but a lot of us aren't. I thought this game was commercial and actually wanted to grow its player base? Low effort isn't going to get you there mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
You have 15 years of playing utopia and you still think almost nobody cheat and we should trust people. HahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by chadde
Read that again. The IP block affected 4% of players at some stage. 96% were completely unaffected. Of the 4% affected another small % of their interactions were affected with the majority working as normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by chadde
My 4 cards obviously have my name on them. If you want to discuss cards I can get access to I would have approximately 92 cards available to me, all with different names and all 100% legitimate.Quote:
Originally Posted by chadde
How do you have 92 100% legitimate names? I'm curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
I didn't look too closely at this, so this could be bad, but here is one service.
https://veratad.com/solutions/identity-verification/
It is a real pia to play and do wars with 3 members of the same household.
Obviously you should stop cheating and just have 1 account.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthira
Pushing for 3300 people to submit credit card details and pay $1 so that you can have three accounts available is pretty underhanded.
What does it usually tell about someone when they assume a characteristic about everyone else?
Like being a multi/cheater/untrustworthy...
The quick glance I had at that link didn't require a credit card, I don't think. I'm not saying everyone should do it, but those who want to go through the effort and scrutiny might want that option. I know steam requires $5 in your steam wallet that is verified through a very secure process with identity checking.
This is what I mean. Limited accounts unless unlocked. https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...3330-IAGK-7663
Ok my dudes, can we get off the topic of credit cards? That is not at all what I am suggesting, that was just something that was mentioned earlier in the thread. What I want to discuss is how we are actively discouraged from recruiting friends and family by limiting the game for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
So far the only real reason I've seen is that it is "low effort".
What are you adding to this discussion again? Annoying troll is annoying. Go away and let people with knowledge talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
I find it totally creepy that you know that off the top of your head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Anyhoo, can we talk about proper reality-based software solutions instead of all this flaming?
Can I get an answer to why implementing a more intelligent way of detecting cheaters is a bad idea?
....
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadde
Hahaha, such a mature approach to it all somebody points out you're wrong and you go "You're a troll!!" You obviously lack the knowledge cause if you had the knowledge and experince you wouldnt go around spouting such stupid things as you did. Inbefore you trying to brag about how much experince and knowledge thinking thats an "argument". I was poitning out one thing and that was that your belief of there is barely no cheating utopia was wrong nothing more.
Let's behave
I really couldn't care less about your opinion. Also, you haven't pointed out anything wrong with my suggestion. If there is so much cheating like you say, wouldn't that be yet another incentive to try a new prevention system? Or are you happy with the current state of things even though we are apparently flooded with cheaters?Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
No I havent neither did i claim I did chadde I already brought up twice what I pointed out. I didnt say there was much cheating, what I wrote that you were wrong in believe there was barely no cheating and that we should trust people is dumb. Why should they implent a new system when this just works fine? Bishop said its about 4% that suffers from the IP-blocks and should they invest money and time in implenting a new system just cause 4% of the gaming population "suffers " from it? Thats not very smart from a business perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by chadde
Are you seriously not reading my posts? The whole point is this: We as a community have an outspoken desire to grow, yes? One very big part of that growth will come from word of mouth and inviting friends, family and coworkers, yes? Wrong. As soon as I start explaining to these people the limitations of playing together they won't. It's too much of a hassle. You don't think a lot of couples, coworkers and roommates have tried and left? That 4% is the count AFTER the block was in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
There is also the issue of ISPs pooling clients behind the same IP, and often the people affected are completely unaware. This can not be a game where you have to know what an IP address is or it will never grow. We're trying to make it more inviting by writing a new guide, creating new graphics etc. Why would we keep a 15 year old system for banning IPs? Not accounts, mind you, but whole IPs.
There isn't a software created in the last 5 years that utilizes IP blocking for offending accounts. The account itself gets blocked.
Why do I have to keep repeating this?
When you say it's not smart from a business perspective you are very obviously wrong. Investing in a better product is not only smart from a business perspective but vital for the business to survive.
If this word to mouth would be as successful as you like to believe it is why is the game slowly declining in that case? Thats not the main issue why the game is lacking players it's simply game mechanics and how the game is built. No I think that number is surprisingly small. Also you can work around it fairly easy as people have testified it. If this was such a huge issue why is it that there is only one or maybe two posts about this per age?
Is the system of IP-blocking 15 years old or do you claim it's been around for 15 years?
I fail to see how a minority would have any impact on anything. If you have a product that 90% buys and uses you don't go and put tons money and effort to catch that last 10%
While I can understand the frustration, the players wanting the devs to put effort into this must also understand their frustration. Every job has exceptions to the rule and those things are usually off-putting because they're usually labor intensive.
The simple tweaks, here and there, seemed to be insurmountable by the previous team. The current devs have dedicated quite a team to improving what they feel they can within their vision. Still, it's important for us to acknowledge that this is a free game. Any time the devs contribute is hobby time, not earth shattering fiscal domination time.
I'm quite sympathetic to the idea of having more legitimate players, but consider going the extra mile on your end. If you find that intrusive to play a free game then you can understand where the devs are standing. We have to start being a culture based in mutual respect if we expect to grow both here and the real world. It's Sunday :) there you go.
Sheesh, here's the effort argument again...Quote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle
If the problem is effort, why not get a team of players together to work on the logic? Or, you know, invest some work and effort in your product?
Your just not grasping that this IP block isnt a end all for people who want to play together, it doesnt kill them or the kd. Ive had at times 3 married couples playing at once,fathers and sons,many combinations who have and some who still play in my kd for years with no real issues.Sometimes its the people who cant figure it out or just want to complain about everything that makes it a bigger issue than it really is.
"it's doable to have people with same IP's in a kingdom, it's just harder" = Let's make it harder for those that actually go out and recruit players.
I know Rome wasn't built in a day. I suggest you run a test. Make a kingdom with conflicting IPs and try to fight a war. Then maybe you can see the frustration. I have had people in the kingdom with that issue and didn't think much of it, except that it was a bit annoying. Then my son wanted to play...that was not a fun experience. He quit, not just because of this reason but it definitely played a big part.
If you want to recruit younger players instead of being stuck with us old folk until we all die out then things have to change. College would be a great place to recruit, but not with an IP ban.
I have 3 phones , 2 laptops , a iPad and a work computer. All my family want to play
If they go OUT and recruit shouldnt be a issue for anyone should it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
What do you mean? Everyone at that college would share one public IP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
look, hate to bring that up since it's been regurgitated so often and I try to stay away from that type of stuff, maybe if you went out and talked to real actual people every now and again you would understand the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
I know at least 4 people personally that would love this game but I won't recruit them because it would put my team mates at a disadvantage if they joined my kingdom and we all know how fast people can lose interest when randoming and landing in an unorganized mess. I work with 2, so we share IPs at work and 2 others are family members who don't live with me but spend weekends here a lot. I plan a lot around utopia but i refuse to plan my family time around wars. And I am sure there are others with the same issue. Everyone deals with it differently, some recruit anyway and just deal with it and take the disadvantage to their team, some just don't recruit and others cheat.
none of those 3 options are screaming growth. The problem are not different people playing from the same IP, it's the people that cheat that cause the problem. But cheaters will cheat, if not with avoiding IP bans then they will find a different way.
Easy enough to have 1 play mage , 1 play attacker . Put up more than 1 attacker chain. Easy to drop in 2 chains for attackers with different net .
Go out and talk to real people and then you bring up your example of the only people you know is the one that you meet at work and your family members. Whos the one that needs to get out and talk to real people? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
So if your family members dont live with you 5 out 7 days whats the issue? You mean when you spend time with your family you like to play Utopia? Maybe you really should get out more you seem like a real shut in. Also co-workers should be fine cause I assume they dont live with you either and have own homes, so you just adjust your Utopia with your work schedule. I did that cause I know I may be a bit stupid but I like to work when I am at work. Still manage to pull off 2 uniques per day.
and your kingdom has been quite successful I hear...Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
ThunderTA so yea sure you can land drop one in case they land in the same nw...you can also force someone to play a role they don't want to play...what part of that says"come play utopia cause it's fun" to you?
orrr you could delete proven cheaters and ban them for a month or two increasing time if it happens again, regardless of how long they have been playing or how many of their friends would be upset or if you like them or if it screws up a kingdom's success for that age.
Well back then I played in SPGC. I would say it was quite a successful kd. :) But I guess lack of counter arguments and just snide remarks speaks volumes.
GoodWitch ive had 0 issues with people playing with family members or being forced to play something they dont want to. Has worked out well even with the ip blocks.From looking at the rankings each age we dont seem to held back by it . Most of them rotate and want to switch roles to keep the game fresher.Maybe it also has something to do with the age of the players.
Nobody is saying it can't be worked around. I'm managing fine by staying at a different size from my wife, keeping track of targets we've hit etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder TA
My concern isn't really for myself or other people who know this game inside out. I'm talking about new people recruited to join a fun, easy social fantasy game, or however you sell it to your coworker. You can't expect everybody to just know this stuff from day one. The fictional coworker I just recruited doesn't even know what networth means and how it plays in to who you can and should attack.
He just wants to play a casual game. Not looking to fight in the top, just log on twice a day, hang out on slack and whatever.
Why should his account be limited when others aren't?
8 pages sofar of it being explained. Surely you have seen why when so many have explained it already.If you were not here when cheating was rampant you would not understand why no one wants it to return.You trust everyone. We know not to.
You still fail to see it from a user perspective. I know why it should be limited from a server perspective, but he doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder TA
And I was here back then, I know exactly what the problem is. But IP blocking is outdated, simple as that.
Yet you havent gave any examples of how to do it different that will work. Bishop explained the reasons pages ago.
I suggest you actually read the last 8 pages if you want to play the numbers game ;) just count how many actually posted that they would like a different solution and how many think this works just fine and shouldnt be looked into.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder TA
unless of course you assume some opinions carry more weight than others or something you'll find the majority of people posting suggested something else may work better.
Are you serious? I have given examples on how to do it better several times in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder TA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
23 people posted in this thread 7 people voiced concerns rest was neutral or didnt care.