Republic of Octobrev - Double Hostile w/ Strippers & ghetto

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Originally Posted by khronosschoty

I have the impression from reading here that they think that it was totally okay for them to random a small ghetto and that the small ghetto should of just accepted it because there was no gains. I read that the small ghetto player asked for a year 5 ceasefire (or something akin to this) after doing the retaliation but the big bully kingdom wanted to force the issue because well how dare that ghetto player retaliate

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Sorry K I am a slow poster I edited my above post, can I refer you to it

lol @ the idea I post with impunity.

That is all

No worries, thanks for taking the time. I'm not thinking that anyone in this conflict is actually standing on the moral high ground.... I'm just saying I think that things degenerated to where they are because of peoples attitudes and disrespect towards small kingdoms. I think if they would of just accepted that they should not of random them and made reasonable cf agreement that there would not be these issues. I very well could be wrong about this, however, I'm not sure we can know that or not because of the how things were conducted.

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Originally Posted by Sweetiepie

Sorry K I am a slow poster I edited my above post, can I refer you to it

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Originally Posted by khronosschoty

They think that it was totally okay for them to random a small ghetto and that the small ghetto should of just accepted it because there was no gains. The small ghetto player then asked for a CF after doing the retaliation but the big bully kingdom wanted to force the issue.

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If this is true both KD are wrong. I always retal a good hit on me, BUT no gains? [abduct fail] Why cost your self further losses of army? That hit I would ignore. Small prov should retal if he feels some gain is needed. This sounds more like both sides are stupid and stubborn.
Raze into war is silly.

We got a nice 32 page thread out of it.

@Pillz Ha you have not been reprimanded since your Mom spanked your hand for stealing that cookie.

My thinking is that a number of onlookers might not see the gray area between objective and subjective elements.

There is a gray area here. It's been the eye of the storm.

1- For those of us that retal about anything, but especially more powerful kingdoms, it goes without saying. I'm just nice about it.

2- The Pendulum Swings - Knowing who the players are is important here. If I crossed any of the Sheister, korp, Pillz guys I'd be all in. All due respect and I mean this in the nicest way, there would be no resolution that I'd bank my trust. This doesn't mean I dislike, it means I don't quit vs this type of personality. I in fact like them.

3- korp and company are right,...but it's them lol. If I were the opposition and made a mistake then I'm afraid I'd have to go down that path. Because in my heart of hearts I think we could negotiate anything but humiliation. That's how I see the reason for the blank CF. They could prove me wrong.

The debate specialists will only see the side that is literally right and these idioms tend to gestate in folks with a poor moral compass. Bullying is a weakness that we see unfold before us. Even if we conceive bullying as natural selection the fact is that civilization, the domination of the wild, was done through mutual respect. We are ultimately stewards by design.

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Originally Posted by Sweetiepie

Genuinely interested question for anyone who knows the answer - do top 10 kingdoms often get threats of having their chained provs razed in war by an aggrieved random? Or is that rarer than hen's teeth?

(If nobody answers I'll assume nobody's experienced that.)

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Folle did that to CR 2 ages ago IIRC. He had lots of "friends" helping.

The thing is that razing into war is a fair mechanic since it's leverage to end conflicts peacefully before they reach that point. It gives a smaller kingdom that feels they were bullied an advantage to get retribution/prevent future issues. It also allows community self-policing for deal breaks.

It's not a perfect mechanic, but it functions as a good final measure to keep other people in line. Without that leverage you'll see larger kingdoms bottomfeed more since the smaller kingdom loses their leverage end game of just waiting it out to strike back when they can.

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Originally Posted by Papa Legba

Well the first line of defense for a solo province is not to give a kingdom a reason to harm you.

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And the last line of defense is to raze into war.

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Originally Posted by khronosschoty

Why do you get to hit a small ghetto with immunity just because your did a poor hit?

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We never said we did. We hit a small ghetto because one of their guys did 44 razes into our war, this has nothing to do with our kingdom making a poor hit.

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Originally Posted by khronosschoty

I have the impression from reading here that they think that it was totally okay for them to random a small ghetto and that the small ghetto should of just accepted it because there was no gains. I read that the small ghetto player asked for a year 5 ceasefire (or something akin to this) after doing the retaliation but the big bully kingdom wanted to force the issue because well how dare that small ghetto player retaliate

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Once again for the hard of hearing, we didn't "random into a small ghetto".. we followed a guy who had razed us in war 44 times..

The "poor hit" you're referencing was actually against a kingdom within the 90-110% range. The small ghetto player "asked" for nothing, he demanded his CF or else he would, and I quote "Make the rest of your age a living hell".

The matter was dropped and a CF was put in place And by his own admission, Sheister then started kd hopping so that he could raze into our wars. The only "smaller ghetto" we have hit has been RoO since Sheister joined

Is that all clear or do I need to explain it one more time?

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Originally Posted by Sweetiepie

Edit - Sheister, if someone tells you they are going to raze into your wars for revenge, you either have the choice of a permanent CF with them or you raze them down to 50 acres and keep them there. What else are you going to do?

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No, when someone tells you accept this CF or else I will raze into your wars when they have done nothing to do and you have hit them you have a very clear choice. You either accept the CF or call their bluff OR do what DD did, call my bluff AND raze me 3x. In our case, I offered a yr5 CF, so there are also nearly infinite CF options as well. DD had so many choices other than what they did that it shocks the mind to try to comprehend them all.

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Sheister - now I am quite confused. Why were you hoping to war them in Yr 5 if your monarch didn't fancy them? And if your note was rude what did you think would happen? ( i'm guessing it was if it was filled with bluster?) And when you did your final kingdom hop did you make known to DD that it was done, or were they still sitting there thinking, he's gone to yet another kd and is gonna continue when he's good and ready?

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My monarch wanted to war them too, just not right away. We were afraid of getting jumped by multiple kingdoms so I was working out CF's with all of them to sequence them. On my last hop, when their war was finally offered, I wrote them telling them that I had been asked to stay on with that last kingdom and help them rebuild so I was willing to let it end in exchange for a Yr 11 CF with 72 hr notice and would train up the new KD and they could war me then and kick my butt if they liked. Instead they never responded and they CHOSE this. I have no idea what they were thinking.

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Originally Posted by Kestrel038

Tell the full story Sheister.. you demanded a CF or you threatened to ruin the players age for them. I do like how you make out that all you did was bluff a litte when we both know you made several threats.

We did not "go nuts" I spoke to your monarch who told me your hits werent' sanctioned and she did not condone your behaviour, THEN we razed you 3 times and CF'd your kd (These razes were primarly because you had continued to mouth off and make demands and threats).

And once you had made 44 razes into our war, you decided you didn't want to continue any more and expected us to just let it go. Saying "Oh I ceased my griefing" after making 44 oow razes is simply your way of trying to make out that we came back at you for no reason.

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Yes I did. That is a negotiation tactic. Thank you for admitting that I had DONE nothing to you when you razed me 3X. So you see.... you started it. That was a bluff, you razed.

You did go nuts. You wrote severl novels of messages to me presuming to lecture me about chain of command and that I had no place negotiating and that I had no ability to threaten you. You were wrong (as is demonstrated here in this thread multiple times) on both counts. So again, you started it, you were wrong. Own up to it.

As I explained to your steward, the new kingdom I was in asked me for help. I offered a way out. I let you go. You chose to continue it. Honestly, I could delete now, go to a new kingdom, get a fresh start with more offense and commence messing you up again and kingdom hop all over again. The fact that I am staying put should be a big freaking clue to you if you had half a brain.

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Cue sheister.

sheister had a similar experience with some ghetto nobody has ever heard of before. They did a 0 scientist abduct and he responded with a trad. They didn't think this was appropriate and retal'd him, which he followed up with a retal of his own. Long story short, he informed them that he would be razing into future wars. And he did. Each time they would CF the kingdom he was in, and each time he would defect and pick up where he left off or wait for their next war. Unable to grasp the finer points of diplomacy, this ghetto decided to chase him rather than work out a reasonable CF deal. So three wars later and several thousand acres razed, sheister was invited into the Republic of Octobrev to help **** with Strippers.

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Sweetiepie

Pillz had that wrong. Read my first post which I think is the 4th post in the thread.

So, while we supposedly were under a "truce" to negoiate a CF between Krynn and Bishop one of our lost little nubs sent a message to abi asking what could be done to get a "CF" in place. This is what abi replied with

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You will notice we have actually razed several provinces down to the 100 acre mark as they are part of a group that has been threatening to raze int our wars. If you choose to remove their last 100 acres, we would be more than happy to count you among our friends and would happily CF you for whatever period was required

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Then she went on to send a "Kill list"

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The ones who have been involved against us are as follows. Love Original, Ops ops ops IvannaBlikeOctoPls Hmmm In The Lan

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Is this how DD treats people they are doing diplomacy with? abi who supposedly wasnt allowed do any diplomacy to begin with. I guess just shows DD true colours.

It is all over rated BS. Let us hope cooler minds prevail.

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Originally Posted by Krynn

It is all over rated BS. Let us hope cooler minds prevail.

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What is bull****? that abi sent those messages?

And here we go again.

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Originally Posted by Nanka

And here we go again.

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I was really hoping for a resolution but when you get back home from work and you find out you got killed and it was thanks to abi it puts you off. There was actually a fairly agreeable deal on the table.

Nono Korp. Abi
And
DD are innocent. Only we are bad.