Sheister vs Sampuan

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Originally Posted by Touchdown

No I'm not. We lost the war when we hit the wd button. The reasons for the wd are debatable depending on who you ask. I might be in the minority but i have no problem with fs war tactics and there was no need for our complainers in the war forum. The only thing fs has done that I don't like is complain about us attacking them again. They have 4 ww of science and lots of honor. We want it. This line of thinking that 2 kds just warred so auto cf is nonsense.

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A dangerous precedent to be set though. It's good to know that every war we think we will win we can talk trash after 48h, and then rationalize that to take/destroy all their resources after EoWCF. If every kingdom that left war from a position of strength did this to their opposing kingdom, that would definitely not be healthy for the game.

But in the end, as Sampuan has said, it isn't getting waved that we care about, it is that the whole chain of events makes no sense. If they were just doing it for resources they could have done that from a position of strength prior to the war. The problem is they havent really come to the table with any realistic offer. Their idea is just to wave and wave a kingdom not fighting back. Yes this is different than last age when we hit kingdoms from strength as we only did 1 wave (usually just a partial wave) against kingdoms, and were very open to CF's, the only time we did more than 1 wave on a kingdom was when they were hitting back and/or not coming to the table for a CF.

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Originally Posted by Touchdown

I play in pyro. I was against the wd in the first place but we did anyway. Next best option is to take the ww resources however we can. No sense in crying about size difference. FS gave us that advantage.

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That pretty much sums up my view.

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Originally Posted by Aranfein

Swagger same way some are siding with FS... Friendship

Sheister I wouldn't know about that, if people didn't manage provs accordingly during war, it falls on leadership to keep them in check though, unless you assume all your players know what they are doing, but even then you should check and make sure either by intel or by asking. - I understand that's not easy when you're tired after 4+ days of war, that's why you assign a vice or a council to take up that mantle.

End of the day FS deserved the win, whether they played to drag or not, turning back on a friendly kd to remove ww resources course you are hurt, by the way FS got their win, seems pretty petty to me.. Don't get me wrong you are in your right to do so, and I can appreciate you WD in favourable position to do just that, but just like I said to Francis in our talks early last age (I think it was), "Just course you can, doesn't mean you have to".

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No argument from me. I did not take the time to explain to people how to adapt until people started whining and talking WD, that was when I woke up and looked at intel and said, "ummmm, wtf, this is what you do, build it and then get back in the fight and stop talking WD". The people argued about that with me and said we had to WD or otherwise XX province would be obliterated within 24 hrs. I said, "WTF cares, if that province goes down, we lost enough NW that we can dragon them again if people swap the builds like I said." They whined more and we WD under the suggestion of a round 2. I said, "that is assinine, we won't have range and FS will punk out and not want to war because they will feel like they are being bullied." Others said FS has been around long enough to understand strategic WD and round 2 warring, I said, "I doubt it. but at least lets just learn them and take the resources we want, not land, which we don't." They said, "but then we could get boned if they hit back." I said, "that is the only way they will hit back and maybe war, if they see some method by which to bone our larger provinces, so we have to learn to take the resource we want, let them bone us a bit, and maybe we get round 2."

Its eerie isn't it?

meh, whatever. so our guys can just farm resources now and we are unable to get a war because we are too big. Its sad, but it lets me just lay in a pump build and go back to sleeping.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Originally Posted by Touchdown

Well with no retals it's incredibly efficient.

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lets go through your 'genius' strategy of efficient farming step by step..

- started with max gains + razes (gave us a lot of gbp, and pushed us out of rnw)
- mixed in some raze bounces with actual razes & out of range land hits for minimal gains (lowered our rnw further, and those out of range land hits gain no honor)
- we are all on high gbp and out of rnw for most of pyro now (gbp + max schools in now, good luck with getting books)
- you havent done any learns at all except 2 hits or something (so much for sci farming?)

you claim your goal was to farm science and honor, but you terribly fail on doing neither.. learns give extremely low amount of gbp compared to trads, and for efficient farming, you shouldve started with a lot of learns.. guess what? our provs would actually be in your range to gain any books at all too.. i feel like something is wrong here, it almost sounds like you dont care about getting any science at all, neither much about honor.. lets use the same steps you have taken with a different goal in mind..

- started with max gains + razes (pushed yourself close to land cap of your war agreement, to start pumping for war asap)
- mixed in some raze bounces with actual razes & out of range land hits for minimal gains (gaining as small amount of lands as possible now after reaching close enough to cap, and making small gains to stay below)
- we are all on high gbp and out of rnw for most of pyro now (even lower gains, and we dont have any rnw to fight you back if we would want to retal by any means)
- you havent done any learns at all except 2 hits or something (you only need learns to keep 'conflict' going after reaching land cap for the war, so gaining land was priority earlier)

suddenly it all started making sense, huh?

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Originally Posted by jmiedema

A dangerous precedent to be set though. It's good to know that every war we think we will win we can talk trash after 48h, and then rationalize that to take/destroy all their resources after EoWCF. If every kingdom that left war from a position of strength did this to their opposing kingdom, that would definitely not be healthy for the game.

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I think you are over stating your case here. How often do war kingdoms feed acres to opponents for over 5 days working only to shell them? I believe most try to maintain acre control and not create monster economy potential on the other side. Again, it was effective in the war itself, but in terms of how the game is designed, it is an incredibly stupid way to go. It opens the door for round 2 warring and the stripping out of provinces in peace time. As I said in war, dragging the war was stupid (even though it got them the win) and then shelling us at the same time so that we had to become resource predatory or else find another way to get prepared for any future conflict at all... well FS prepped us for this. If this is what war kingdoms routinely do... well then I will need to pay attention to ends of conflicts a little more closely if ever I whore again.

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Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN

lets go through your 'genius' strategy of efficient farming step by step..

- started with max gains + razes (gave us a lot of gbp, and pushed us out of rnw)
- mixed in some raze bounces with actual razes & out of range land hits for minimal gains (lowered our rnw further, and those out of range land hits gain no honor)
- we are all on high gbp and out of rnw for most of pyro now (gbp + max schools in now, good luck with getting books)
- you havent done any learns at all except 2 hits or something (so much for sci farming?)

you claim your goal was to farm science and honor, but you terribly fail on doing neither.. learns give extremely low amount of gbp compared to trads, and for efficient farming, you shouldve started with a lot of learns.. guess what? our provs would actually be in your range to gain any books at all too.. i feel like something is wrong here, it almost sounds like you dont care about getting any science at all, neither much about honor.. lets use the same steps you have taken with a different goal in mind..

- started with max gains + razes (pushed yourself close to land cap of your war agreement, to start pumping for war asap)
- mixed in some raze bounces with actual razes & out of range land hits for minimal gains (gaining as small amount of lands as possible now after reaching close enough to cap, and making small gains to stay below)
- we are all on high gbp and out of rnw for most of pyro now (even lower gains, and we dont have any rnw to fight you back if we would want to retal by any means)
- you havent done any learns at all except 2 hits or something (you only need learns to keep 'conflict' going after reaching land cap for the war, so gaining land was priority earlier)

suddenly it all started making sense, huh?

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I don't assign hits. All I know is we asked for science and honor and fs prov to release def to speed up the process. If fs refuse i guess we would need to plan the hits differently in case retals start coming. This is my point of view. You would need to talk with leadership to get a clear answer.

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Originally Posted by Touchdown

You would need to talk with leadership to get a clear answer.

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Can you just say Nesta? Why do people hate proper nouns?

Matje, I wouldn't know but that would be the obvious guess.

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Originally Posted by jmiedema

A dangerous precedent to be set though. It's good to know that every war we think we will win we can talk trash after 48h, and then rationalize that to take/destroy all their resources after EoWCF. If every kingdom that left war from a position of strength did this to their opposing kingdom, that would definitely not be healthy for the game.

But in the end, as Sampuan has said, it isn't getting waved that we care about, it is that the whole chain of events makes no sense. If they were just doing it for resources they could have done that from a position of strength prior to the war. The problem is they havent really come to the table with any realistic offer. Their idea is just to wave and wave a kingdom not fighting back. Yes this is different than last age when we hit kingdoms from strength as we only did 1 wave (usually just a partial wave) against kingdoms, and were very open to CF's, the only time we did more than 1 wave on a kingdom was when they were hitting back and/or not coming to the table for a CF.

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There is nothing wrong with considering the advantages another kd will have after eowcf mechanics kick in while planning war strategy. I don't consider that unhealthy for the game. I also think it's fine for 2 kds to shake hands and go separate ways after such a war. Maybe our friendliness was overestimated.

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Originally Posted by Sheister

Can you just say Nesta? Why do people hate proper nouns?

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i actually saw our cf demands from whoever p.a is in our whatsapp

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Originally Posted by Touchdown

No I'm not. We lost the war when we hit the wd button. The reasons for the wd are debatable depending on who you ask. I might be in the minority but i have no problem with fs war tactics and there was no need for our complainers in the war forum. The only thing fs has done that I don't like is complain about us attacking them again. They have 4 ww of science and lots of honor. We want it. This line of thinking that 2 kds just warred so auto cf is nonsense.

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Give it a stop, this is embarrassing.

'They have 4 ww of science and lots of honor.'

That is why I got 4x bounced on elites in.

Most kingdoms during their relaxing off-ages do stuff to build friendships. I guess you feel taking an off age is a time to tear down relationships and burn bridges. #NestaStrategy

You guys were also sitting pumping sci and gc for like 2 weeks before our conflict. You went into our conflict with what 80M gc more? 100M? you had all the advantages and you laugh at us for overcoming all those advantages to win the war because you still made out OK in the end? What a joke. Just call it for what it is, you are calling this a Round 2 to try and avoid outside hits while you prep for spartans, and it just so happens to help that you get to have a little revenge in the meantime to start to feel manly again.

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Originally Posted by jmiedema

Most kingdoms during their relaxing off-ages do stuff to build friendships. I guess you feel taking an off age is a time to tear down relationships and burn bridges. #NestaStrategy

You guys were also sitting pumping sci and gc for like 2 weeks before our conflict. You went into our conflict with what 80M gc more? 100M? you had all the advantages and you laugh at us for overcoming all those advantages to win the war because you still made out OK in the end? What a joke. Just call it for what it is, you are calling this a Round 2 to try and avoid outside hits while you prep for spartans, and it just so happens to help that you get to have a little revenge in the meantime to start to feel manly again.

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No, no, no the lies! STOP!

You have a strategy that's great for wars, not so great outside wars. Ergo you'd like to play this game purely within the boundaries of those wars.

The game doesn't exist purely within those boundaries. Even if Pyro are doing it with an ulterior motive, they are still doing it because you gave them 20k freeaking acres to do it with.

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Originally Posted by Leonidas

You have a strategy that's great for wars, not so great outside wars. Ergo you'd like to play this game purely within the boundaries of those wars.

The game doesn't exist purely within those boundaries. Even if Pyro are doing it with an ulterior motive, they are still doing it because you gave them 20k freeaking acres to do it with.

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i believe we have done enough stuff oow to know quite well about it.. pyro already had the same %-size advantage against us before we agreed to war, so they didnt need us to give them that size again to do it.. they could do the same earlier too, but they know well enough that such actions have long-term consequences - they only adhere this route because of a broken ego&pride, and another war agreement knocking on the door..

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Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN

i believe we have done enough stuff oow to know quite well about it.. pyro already had the same %-size advantage against us before we agreed to war, so they didnt need us to give them that size again to do it.. they could do the same earlier too, but they know well enough that such actions have long-term consequences - they only adhere this route because of a broken ego&pride, and another war agreement knocking on the door..

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You're missing my point. I'm not wondering why they are doing it. Obviously petty revenge plays a part.

I'm asking why you think they should stop, given that you gave them the power to do this to you.