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There was after all of this and AMA GB. I mean Ama deal broke for wrongs in the past. So AMAs rule is only they can carry over grudges?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury
Your whole post screams touches... I mean maybe we need to find AMA oop and GB them if they are going to ****play us later on in the age which we have all been threatened with?
Everyone carries grudges?Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
I cant remember a single time we had ask anyone to apologize for an eye-for-an-eye scenario. Dont take my words out of context.
KDs use other KDs for farming. KDs play for themselves and don't care for the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
The logic you're using doesn't make sense to me, for that reason.
Then, the logic is simple as well. I've seen quite a few from AMA complain about GB. By your logic, you have no right to complain, and you will be punished in kind. If you're prepared for the consequences, then that's fine, but don't ask for any favors, and don't complain. Nothing more can be said then, because you're resolute in standing by the things you've done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Hunter
I agree with all of the things you've said, but what I dislike is how both AMA and the alliance are using logic that applies to both parties in order to further their own agendas.
** Summary **Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Pete
Total attacks made: 114 (15,993 acres)
-- Traditional march: 47 (15,993 acres)
-- Raze: 63 (1,318 acres)
-- Failed: 4 (3.5% failure)
-- Uniques: 43
Total attacks suffered: 2 (327 acres)
-- Traditional march: 1 (0 acres)
-- Ambush: 1 (327 acres)
Yes, quite a few attacks were meant to be razes but nubbed it / misclicked and ended up being TMs. I myself clicked TM instead of raze, and TM'ed for zero acres with 20+h attack time on 2nd tap after forgetting to switch. Fails were razes that were nubbed, so all in all about 70% of our attacks are razes, and 30% land based.
And you obviously missed the razes I did as well on province #10, because very clearly I did them, and ended up being plagued for 12h, which was a nub move by me, resulting in lowered def and being unable to send a raze on your mid 10k human safely.
And I believe the numbers below are skewed due to my formatter bug, as in, raze hits got accounted into positive gains as well. I believe Elit had same problem when posting summary earlier when hostile with RBL. We gained far less. We started at 161.5k land, used up 6.2k pool, and grew 5*25*3=375 acres from daily bonus. Compared to our size now at 184k, we gained 184 - 161.5 - 6.2 - 0.375 = 12.9k.
** The kingdom of PyroManiaCs **
Total land exchanged: +15,666 (114/2)
+7,213 An unknown province (32/0)
+1,604 17 how hard you hit (9 [3]/0)
+1,495 10 to your knees (4 [3]/0)
+1,384 02 something you already know (2 [2]/0)
+1,305 03 The world aint (2 [2]/0)
+916 25 We did it (5 [2]/0)
+736 06 and nasty place (3 [3]/0)
+627 18 Its about how (3 [2]/0)
+485 24 Yo Adrian (5 [2]/0)
+359 08 how tough you are (3 [1]/1)
+251 12 permanently if you let it (9 [3]/0)
+132 11 and keep you there (2 [2]/0)
+105 07 I dont care (8 [3]/0)
+75 20 hit and keep moving (5 [3]/0)
+75 09 it will beat you (7 [2]/0)
+45 04 all sunshine and rainbows (3 [3]/0)
+45 14 is gonna hit as (3 [2]/0)
+45 23 keep moving forward (3 [1]/0)
+30 13 You me or nobody (3 [1]/0)
+30 22 you can take and (2 [1]/0)
+15 16 But it aint about (1 [1]/0)
+12 05 Its a very mean (1 [1]/0) <-- the nub raze turned TM
Complain about GB is a very broad description.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare_
I dont think very many people agree with Pyro growing 15k acres out of this in the name of justice for example.
Yes, and I will personally agree with that statement. You and I have no issues there. I will say that my views are my own, and not Pyros, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury
Hi everyone.
First of all, please allow me to apologise to Elit for 2 issues. 1) Nobody from PyroManiaCs should have pasted my log with Elit, especially from a 3rd party outside of me and him. It is greatly disrespectful. 2) I wished I would have done more to assure Elit that I would not sit back and allow CR to 2v1 them. CJ did most of the diplo with Elit as I was on a job trip, and in the short time we chatted, I only said I would try my best to convince CR to let us war fairly (and I immediately agreed when CR proposed that the winner between us wars them after 4 days eowcf + 4 days recovery post war). That was fine with me, but I never expected Elit to be so against that idea, to think of that as a farm deal to CR, so I left it at that and made no further enquiries.
Now to the issue at hand, in my discussions with Elit, I have always maintained I was looking forward to a very tough war, and I can say the same for my whole KD as well. Someone mentioned earlier PB/AMA waved us 5 ages ago and we didn’t push button. That is correct. I was in my final year of university getting busy with my thesis, and the whole KD had activity issues. We would have been raped by PB. But we have since improved leaps and bounds. I mean, can you imagine PyroManiaCs was bot-less until last age, and when the game introduced the in-game KD chat feature some time ago, it was like a god-send to me in terms of coordinating war efforts? I believe we are ready to give Elit a run for his money now.
Among other alternatives, Elit also suggested giving PyroManiaCs acres for extending CF to EOA, and he will give us his blessings while we pump and war CR 1 week later. I was receptive to that idea, because I knew it was well within the rules and deals all parties made, and that CR cannot complain one bit, because they just took 17-18k acres off Simians without resistance few days ago. That was about 20% of Simian’s total acres. All other farm deals, I did not agree to. So we forted up and trained as Elit advised, to be in a better spot to take AMA’s acres since they were all decently pumped to deal with Remote and his KD. Even though we were much more favourable of warring, we had to accept this deal because it was an all or nothing for us. We needed acres, be it through beating AMA in a war, or getting acres from a CF deal, to be able to fight CR who was 24k larger at that time.
Fast forward 36h, AMA chose to do something else after a KD vote, to dealbreak CR instead.
Regardless of how CR forced AMA’s hands by pushing them into a corner (with their so-called shady playing style, and with precedence of 2v1 on AMA few ages ago as they claim, but I did not follow happenings at the land charts up till late last age, so I am not privy to what happened in those situations), that was a blatant dealbreak on AMA’s end. CR needed help badly as they were caught with their pants down.
I will be first to admit I myself am no saint. On the top of my list of concerns was how the standings would play out if I lent a helping hand to CR. The group came to an agreement where we would be equally matched post war in acres with CR to fight one last battle. I have tried my best during the GB efforts to nullify AMA, and we are not primarily after the acres. I cannot stress this enough. Most of the hits came at the request of the group in the best way possible to handle AMA, and we followed, the bank hits included. For the whole conflict, we mainly focused on hitting AMA’s elves to control their econ at the request of CR, selective taps on small undeads who weren’t chain targets with troops home, and the rest razes. Yes, some of my nubs hit stray while I was offline, but that’s it. We only made 4 bank on bank hits, and had we been the greedy @s ses some people painted us to be, we would definitely not have made only 4 of them. The additional reason for us to make Bank TM hits instead of razes, was that I saw no reason to possibly jeopardise my own banks while being a participant to the GB. AMA's banks were 70-90% larger than the largest provinces in CR, and 20% larger than ours. Had we just razed in, with no incoming, and with AMA's banks UB to the whole of CR (and in fact, whole of the GB group), they could well have retaliated in kind with razes. There might come a situation post war where we might need to raze acres on ourselves, even those on banks, and we were prepared to do so.
Fast forward another 30 hours, where 4 provinces of AMA were PK’ed already, and 1 more was on his way down. I believed that was harsh enough on AMA for their dealbreak. (I may or may not be wrong, because this is the first time I’m taking part in a GB effort.) It was at the same time I had several parties talking to me, most of whom were telling me CR had its fair share of the blame in causing this situation (even without dealbreaking), and that AMA had been hit hard enough. I was also given information that the razes might have been linked to CR. Let’s all face it, it is virtually impossible we can ever prove CR’s innocence or guilt with 100% conviction in this issue. In the meantime, I asked for all hits from my KD on AMA to cease, and I informed maximouse about it, while I try to talk to more people, and to solve things amicably possibly. CJ did his fair share of talking around too. It is not easy that this is the first time ever we have been exposed to such a situation, and we are indeed trying our best.
All in all, I hope we can come together and reach a solution for all parties involved. Some may feel short-changed, some may get the better end of it. It is never possible to find a deal where everyone gets what they want 100%, when so many parties are involved. I only wish we can look beyond this issue, and move on. This is a competitive war/strategy game; competition is healthy, but there is no need for such animosity and hatred lying around. The game doesn’t need that. Can we all just be friends? We all need to come together at a same time on IRC to talk this out, to find a solution, instead of throwing punches back and forth right here in this meaningless forum.
Nightmare in 90% of my posts i say I agree with being gbed. I don't agree with the blames and that we are used as a scape goat for others to justify personal gains and other bs. IMO if the fairplay had just razed and dropped our banks for 30-40k acres that would have been just fine. No need to ask to raze them later, no pks, no grudges, no gains. Simple raze of banks =taking us out of crown race and punishment. But no, they had to pk core provinces - provinces that would be most useful out of the crown fight,and left the banks just to demand us to raze them later. Also doing tms with Pyro with the argument that they have to match CR in land despite the fact that AB, who is a jk, claimed many times that the deal was for CR to drop land after the WW. Why gain land if CR would drop land? Why involve 12 kds for a punishment when only 3-4 are really influenced by the crown race and can do it by themselves? And if the top 15 gbs us and cf each other, and later we are not allowed to go after ANY of them...wtf? What are we supposed to do? So many ways that punishment could be done fair and hard for us. But it didn't happen.
P.S. thank you Nesta for clearing it out that your hits were done the way CR asked for :).
Korp as i said previously I do give free CFs no strings attached....Where i play has next to no meaning regardless of my post, but i do play in the top10 if it matters to you.Quote:
Korp - But you're probably not a big kd, you're not whoring or otherwise competing so its doesnt prevent the point. Random people in ghettos dont get just free CFs cause thats one acre sources less
Elit - Your right, a direct competitor you will ofcourse not so easily give a no string attached CF, however ive done it before.
1). Thinking people keep their words when making one.
2). Believe friends wont backtab.
You take your pick out of those. I might play it a bit naive, but if i don't, it seems i have to be ****playing and i don't want to, it sometimes costs my KD for how i play but it also limits the people that wish to ****play us, as they know if i give my word i keep it.
Yes i can be difficult to deal with as a leader but only when someone ****plays me. - And so far there is only 1 in the top thats done that, and no it wasnt AMA :)
Legit question and good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury
Yes, but you are missing the point. You tried to use yourself as evidence to disapprove Elits claim while it doesnt work if you're not one of those "Big kds" hes refering too. Since you're not one of those kds if you give out CFs with no strings doesnt matter. Cause what was said and implied by Elit was that whoring kingdoms dont just go and throw away potential targets if they dont know the persons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
Okay again you miss the point - Im in Legacy and yes we are whoring, and yet ive given no strings attached CFs this age on more then 1 occasion. We dont whore every age thats correct and we prefer warring, as i said many would probs think of us as a ghetto and not belonging in the top.
But if you mean whoring like RBL, AMA, BB & CR, then no we do not do it every age.
Its decent post 13nesta13 but its very easy to be nice now and ask for ppl move on.
We had better chances for win vs pyro before razes started and im sure its was arranged from Havoc for hurt us down and we cant win. You think its fair for us to war pyro after all our prepare gone to hell and from clear favorite before war start we gone to clear disadvantage? Why i need to waste my time for another war in disadvantage result from Havoc actions. Dont forget farming simians and arrogance in forum+ lame deal proposes in irc for few days.
We talked with you about age in general. You admitted all your group made CF with Havoc for use them for slow us. How its fair play where all 4 kds are teamed up vs us from age begin and don't war all age. Its total BS and its total kill all balance this age. Sorry but bad play promoted from your alliance+Havoc resulted in what we have now. ABS had his lame moments but they had his pride too and we had most from ages fair compete with them in top. We got CFs and time for explore/pump/random how had all rest ABS kds. I got noting from it all age. All this GB with name fair play is total Hippocratic. KDS involved in GB power played us all age. Rusty joined GB so he can get CF and explore his prov and Simians did so many lame ****s this age and they now promote fair play too???
Sorry but i cant accept this GB and i cant move on till you all admit you was part from problem. I was perfect Fine with Havoc win age before they become lame. After it i was perfect fine with Pyro win age. All what wanted is promise for help in 2vs1 and war was possible with you. Havoc offer come so late, and all was decided for move and pay back them. Its why i told you go draft/train/fort in advance. I told you for protect pyro not for get GBed from you. When Pyro and Havoc was same size i offered CJ: ama to stay away from n1 and you both war. If you win you get legit age win, but CJ decide its better GB us.
Why can't people man up and be honest for a change? There's no such thing as a honourable/fair-play GB.
Everyone involved did so for their own personal agendas and nothing more.
CR got out-****played by AMA and cried wolf.
Pyro joined in for the acres and a possible crown. Virgins tend to be blinded at times.
Rage is in it for a possible province crown/supporting allies (just cause the ABS tag isn't flying doesn't mean they're not there).
Simians and the other ghettos joined in for the possibility of better CF deals next age, or maybe they had a grudge of their own vs AMA and this was the only way to get back at them. Weak.
In the end, everyone is dirty so stop trying to say otherwise. You are only fooling yourselves.
Could you care to explain what "lame ****" Simians has done this age or last age for that matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Because im interested in knowing this. I know the wave on Pyromaniacs was wrong, it was handled and dealt with, not in the way i would have liked because those acres should have been returned to Pyro and not AMA <---
Other then that, i would like to hear what you have to say.
We are trying to upheld standards the best we can and will continue to work hard to play fair and honesty. We have no intentions with this GB but to punish a dealbreaker and hell, i would not mind if everyone dropped out of t10. I am not a fan of the landgains Pyro took, like i explained, i am neutral. But what i do know is that you deserved to get banged up for the move you did. I have honest intentions and i see no problem with everyone tagging fair play or even drop out of t10 entirely. My first idea was to give crown to someone that really deserve it, for example Legacy, that i have not seen ****play, maybe Rusty, i dont know. But i am open to most solutions and i am open to make what is right for the best of this game. The game is starting to get so rotten and i am not sure how to cure the game, but we are trying, from the best of our ability right now. I am on a personal crusade to stop douche moves. I know i have made moves that was not respectful also, but ever since age 54 i had my intentions to stop this and been trying our hardest, but the top is a djungle. Its the monkeys natural habitat, but its still hard to navigate it. I dont have all the answers, but i know it has to start somewhere and GBing you to take a stance vs ****play was a start. I wish it had started LONG before this and that we would of helped Rage gangbang strippers and that we would have gangbanged pewpew and so forth, the more events we let slip away the worse it has gotten for the game. Im sure you can see this also, the problem to me is that you know all of this and you probably felt you could get away with it also. I dont think the alliance in the top this age been to fair playing either nor has CR etc. But it must start somewhere and people must expand thier minds a bit. I wanted everyone in t10 to tagg Fair Play, without any KD names attached and tagg it until age ends, this way it does not matter who wins and who gets the acres, we can just have some fun wars and who wins or not does not matter either. This was my main idea before the gb started. Somewhere along the ride other **** happend and maybe this entire fair play idea lost its track.
No, i am more then happy to fight AMA any age, even if we would lose to them. I am not affraid of a lost fight or some lost acres knowing we faught good and hard. You, just like many others totaly missinterpute my KD and what we are all about. We want fair top wars and its the only thing we find fun in this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4gz
So are you saying this GB was fair? Yes deal-breaking is a method of ****playing, but I can say the same about a group of kingdoms working together to eliminate the competition. Once upon a time alliances were illegal (And no, don't mention invites as a counter-argument. Mehul not allowing players to play with their friends was just stupid). Also, only weak people gang-up cause that's their only way of competing.
And no, I don't follow the masses. I read both sides of the stories then make my own judgement/opinion.
Tell me this, what did Simians gain from this? Other than a chance at a better CF next age. In my eyes all you did was strengthen the ABS-block and burn any sort of bridge you had remaining with the indie-kingdoms (fairly indie, cause you do need a friendly kingdom or 2 to help off set numerous kingdoms working together).
My idea for all KDs involved in GB to gave up land chart and drop from top 10 is only fair solution because all are guilty but im sure rest kds wont accept it. Real reason for GB is simple win crown. Havoc used Pyro and rest and they used Havoc for his goal. Dirty lame play for win what dont really matter from long...
Go out with normal people and try to tell them you play game named utopia, explain how you get sms 2-5 am for attack and see how they will look on you after it:P Noting to be proud don't matter if you have crown or not :D
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Well, i am all about making utopia better, less ****play etc so maybe a few new players can join and maybe some old players come back to something that looks more like a fun game then a pile of ****.
I would make my KD self-destruct out of t10, np.
But i think the better solution would be if all tagg just Fair Play and no one wins the age because age 60 would be just about fair play. Its also the easiest way. Then i really dont care who gets land from who and who wars who. It would all just be fun and a step in the right direction.
A possibility in principle Anri, but the KD that does win will know who they are and may well always claim it. If you all dropped out then you can all equally agree to write the Crown off as not valid and mutually ignore the result for the KD outside of yourselves that gets it, with no possibility of anyone trying to claim they 'won' it.
In current circumstances better to have a situation where you can all agree that the KD that got it didn't deserve it, rather than a situation that could lead to fractures in a fledgling effort to start afresh.
Uhm....AMA/BB/EJ and who was the other one again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
And who was the solo kd that warred all of them?
No other and good you asking so i can explain and show difference :PQuote:
Originally Posted by faegan
Last age there was 2 grup from 3 kds. Havoc/ED/Rage?, AMA/BB/EJ, indi HoH,Fratzia, and several WW kds going big from begin. We had real competition and wars early/midle/late age. ABJ kds did his personal cf deals and didn't block any kd. So all had his chances for random/explore/pump and war 1vs1 with some one. This age We had Rage/Pyro/Pew going after land + Havoc. All Cfed till yr 10. Do you see difference? No any action almost all age and pick on rest kds. My kd was forced in b2b war all age. Till middle age Pyro refused to cf us with argument: its not smart let you explore/pump. WTF is this? You have only 1 competitor and you group don't let him get any chance for build cow or explore ever if its few weeks later from your cows. Its have noting with fair play and noting with being confident in your skills.
Last age Rage gained unfair 80k land from intentional farming. Drixx refuse all our proposed and insist his deal terms. Did he razed land or get GBed for not raze land? No we decide its better to take deal he propose from GB kd. What we have now. You GB so easy and so happy. You think its fair?
I like the part where elit refutes logic because he says so and continues to believe what sounds good to him.
Its not hard to admit you made big dis balance in top this age. Dont forget your past too :P So be honest at lest once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_mi
Uhm...isn't the whole point of alliances to reduce the chances of "interference" of other parties, be it another alliance or a single kingdom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Elit, you know very well that trying to steal the crown by dealbreak is #1 on ****list. If you get it because some kingdom farms out to you (intentional or not), that's not dealbreaking. To translate this to your comments about RBL: perhaps they just liked RBL more than AMA. Otherwise I'm quite sure they would have farmed out to you.Quote:
Last age Rage gained unfair 80k land from intentional farming. Drixx refuse all our proposed and insist his deal terms. Did he razed land or get GBed for not raze land? No we decide its better to take deal he propose from GB kd. What we have now. You GB so easy and so happy. You think its fair?
We never planed to win age this way. All what we did is fair punish Havoc for his lame play. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by faegan
Fine. So intra raze and be done with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
What separates lame play from **** play? By your definition: lame play is trolling and "unfair" diplomacy, while ****play is what?
Oh wait:
Lame play - does not have direct effect on in game standings
**** play - has direct impact on in game standings
Something like that?
Final edit: I need to run an errand for a moment, don't spam more than 10 pages or I will have to spend 1/2 a day to keep up with the replies.
There had to be a promise break in there somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
You are still alive ! Did you miss this post? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Band of Horses
If you going to sit do it proper ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Yes my dearest Elit, I did miss this post. This thread was too much to keep up on and I was far too drunk as I was sitting Flogger's alcohol consumption. I promise to do better next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Elit i am pretty sure we have more connections/played with more of players in your kd, than havoc or pyro. just sayin
Sure, when you are aware that someone out there is going to raze your enemy right before your fight, you stop it. Kind of like what happened between us and Awesomeness recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Or like what happenned the last time hellrazor razed sanctuary's bank (maximouse should remember). I offered to raze my bank the same amount to neutralize the effect. Interestingly enough, it was other absalom kingdoms that wouldn't do the same thing that I offered at the time.
With such skilled diplomats as CR possess, it surely isn't hard to convince someone to get their revenge after their fight. Although what I suggest would require someone to believe in fair play. There are ways to neutralize the effect of people getting in the way of fair fights. Offering to raze my own banks is just one example that can easily be verified by anyone in sanctuary's leadership. The other way is to have people in the kingdom in your channel, and then just try to say "well since we didn't have anything to do with it, then we're fine just pressing the advantage." One is a fair approach and the other is an opportunistic approach.
lol ab you silly nub you talk high about finding ama NeXT age i would begin to worry WHO finds you, lil gb silly noob.
There is nobody in CR or in any other kingdoms that could have "talked us" out of razing AMA. We do our own thing, you ****play us, it will hurt. You're fair to us, we're fair to you. Also, I admire your past proposition about razing your own banks, but in this particular situation, it makes no sense to raze your own bank because your enemy made mistakes (1) not training defense/CFing their threats and 2) ****playing people that will strike back).Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
I have read this kind ABS propaganda many times in past. Make sure you don't miss single post where we accuse Havoc and defend them hard :PQuote:
Originally Posted by RemoteAdvisor
Flogger, as the logs that you spied on us show we didn't know until after the events happened(same time ama/bb and the rest of the server). Indeed Gacib didn't know about it until after it happened based on his own comments.
I still await your apology for spying in our channel and then making false accusations based on not reading the actual logs.
For a fair solution to AVOID dealbreaks from others Rage withdrew from the land race. No one said anything of the NW race and now this is being blown up in our face :OQuote:
Originally Posted by faegan
Whenever someone has to result to personal insults it proves Logic has bested them. Thank you for proving this theory once again. Let's also hope Fratzia does not run heavy sage again and come to us requesting a CF :OQuote:
Originally Posted by Mikey^Mike
More can be read here : http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...s-and-Top-Play
Also got to love post #12:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Its correct. Its not me broke deal. I told kd to do other but i was away and they didn't listen. Same how Havoc not listen to Zauper. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
The players are ex-rage I think, and didn't tell us what they planned this age. Probably because I warned you when they did last age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Maybe pro pro should talk to them.
And flogger - maybe you missed, again, the fair deal offered? I'd think we would have been fine giving more time for AMA / pyro to war (because of the razes), or giving AMA gc to help make up for the damage from them so they could war fairly, but AMA never asked pyro for additional prep time to compensate for remote.
Remember: AMA deal broke not because they weren't offered a fair deal, but because they felt they could no longer best pyro.