You best look at the rankings then. The #1 spot between abs and non-abs has been very even.Quote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
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You best look at the rankings then. The #1 spot between abs and non-abs has been very even.Quote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
I agree with most of what Palem said. Make your own argument against what he stated rather than an empty comment with no substance.Quote:
Originally Posted by baka
And playing with flogger doesn't make up for the fact that you've accomplished just as much as me on your own. Unlike you I'm not really a fan of piggybacking success.Quote:
Originally Posted by baka
*shrugs*
Oh no! They're making crappy kds that can't compete with them crappy offers so they have an opportunity farm acres from them which is the whole point of them playing?! How dare those scoundrels actually give a damn and try to win unlike 99% of the rest of the server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
It's called diplo Elit and it's something you're not very good at. Instead of complaining that Abs are trying to push through more beneficial deals than you are trying to get, why not try to some good deals of your own worked out? Especially considering the fact that it was MA vs Abs for most of the age, I'm SURE there would have been kds willing to bend a little bit because of their blind hatred for abs.
^This is fact. Don't like something? Do something about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion
Yes I do, but I'm extremely, wtf-levels of crazy busy for like the next 3 weeks =\Quote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
Daaaaamn lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
But I miss you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
I'm doing diplo last 20 ages in top kds Palem, and I'm very good on it. This age AMA did all much better from all abs+hoh kds. Its include planing, growing,diplo,hostile-wars. Only reason why AMA is not n1 is ABS double hostile us. ABS did it because can make it for free. Its show from one side ABS low moral from other how bad is when there is no more good kds for compete. Don't put blame on me for doing all what is possible to give fair and legit competition in top this age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
I have feeling you are biased in your opinion because you cant forget our hostile last age. Don't forget there is not other kd who had balls and skills to make what we did. Give us respect for well play and don't hate for it. If you want to comment do it objective.
Yeah, I think that this is pretty in line with what you'd expect given the competition. If 3 or 4 of the best kingdoms are considered "Abs" and there are only 3 or 4 others of comparable ability that go for the top, then it seems about right that about half of the recent wins would be an "Abs" affiliated kingdom. Part of the trouble is some people tend to ignore the kingdom and focus on the tag/affiliation.Quote:
Originally Posted by prot
Flogger, Elit is a "win big or quit" kind of player; it was his choice to not stay a top competitor after he didn't feel he could win #1 anymore. Had Havoc let him dodge them at the time and train up on all his pool, he knew he had the age won as he's stated here many times and this is what he wanted. He had the option to just cf sanc in post war or even after 3 sanc provinces had robbed him out of his war, but that wasn't what he choose. After he warred Havoc once, Havoc and his kingdom finished war equal size. If he just warred Havoc again, he could have still been a #1 competitor even when Havoc beat him, but instead he would rather go for mutual destruction (although this still left Havoc as a #1 competitor, just not him.)
Elit, It's rarely Abs starting the so called "slander talk", it's you jumping in every thread trying to attack Abs (and you did it before this age too, so you can't blame your talk on Sanc/Havoc.) As for Pew, you're wrong again. They first vultured sanc who was the first kingdom in the 90% range. Rage was the next smallest and it is due to this range that pew agreed to fight them if Rage gave them all the time they wanted to prepare. It was certainly no "block" and I'm sure Havoc or HOH would have been happy to fight Pew had they been in range and not occupied.
Pretty small sample size. Also I think she was referring to AABS actual ability to organize, win AWAR's, etc. So far yes I would call the movement a failure...Quote:
Originally Posted by prot
So why all the constant QQ and BS?
Please. Your the one that got all butthurt because I told people to do less QQ'ing and man up and play and stop acting like a bunch of sissies. Seems your the one that soft spot got hit. I could really care less what you or anyone else thinks, just hilarious watching you make excuses for failure and blame the other guy instead of your own actions. Just getting tired of seeing a bunch of males conduct themselves like a group of schoolgirls. If people spent as much time planning, executing, and organizing as they did QQ'ing all over the forums they wouldnt have so much to QQ about. Funny no one was talking to you or directed anything at BB yet you wanna stand on your soapbox and defend what?Quote:
Originally Posted by prot
AquaSeaFoam, you are posting nonsense again. How i told you Havoc+Sanctuary did all ****s but Rage is going to pay main bill for it because you and Proteus don't know when to stop your crap talk and admit your alliance mates was wrong.
@ PhoenixScorpion <-- you're hardly 1 to talk about QQ / BS on here.
Please. I dont QQ about ****. I might interject and talk crap to people because they are so easy to get riled up. Other than that I dont post much. Quite easy to see what I post, spoiler alert.Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy|
More bull**** huh. Let me quote what she said, where does it say anything about awars or organizing?Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion
"When did that happen last? In current history, non-abs taking the crown is still rare. Non-abs taking the top three is non-existent. So it happening without any regularity to me, is failure."
Small sample size? 10 ages over a period of 2+ years not enough?
So because I post something does it directly have to do with a kd I play in? I replied to you because I get tired reading all your crap on the forum recently. I'll just leave it at thatQuote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion
We already pay the 'main bill' for whatever imaginary slights you might have experience from other kingdoms. You doubled us in age 51 and vultured us from 50% size advantage this age. In spite of all your efforts we still happen to do well. Its funny that you are threatening us with dirty play when you have already been doing it to us for quite some time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
HoH... is considered an Abs win by the majority. And how many times have non-abs kds dominate the top 3? Not just the crown.Quote:
Originally Posted by prot
Who cares who's crying... go buy some tissues... gtf over it already. Can't you stay on topic? Is it really that difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion
failing to crown is only because they dont routinely GB their competition. If as Elit suggests that were to change they'd win every age hands down no competition. If u read below the last time abs didn't horribly dominate was age 50/51 when there was a serious anti abs push. I guess that's what it takes to compete, a bunch of kds dedicated to specifcally countering them instead of a few un-allied kds trying for land.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Theres consistently been >3 abs+hoh kds so y not look at top 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
AGE: # of abs+hoh in top 5 (using land)
Age 47:4
Age 48:1
Age 49:3
Age 50:0
Age 51:2
Age 52:4
Age 53:3
Age 54:3
Age 55:4
Age 56:4
Age 57:4 (100k acre lead aint changing from this)
so 3 ages out of the past 11 they didnt hold the majority of the top 5.
over the past 6 ages every one of them has placed top 5 every age. I'd say thats domination. Sure they might not win each age but every one of your kds placing in the top 5 for 6 ages in a row is epic win.
Who cares though "winning" only matters to a few kds and most of them have the abs tag, the only reason to go above 100k or so acres is to try to war ABS or crown so to all the people who QQ about farming acres or strange CF deals all i have to say is stop growing or learn to diplo better.
I have told it many time: Only correct way is 1. build strong kd 2. start grow and war ABS. If you can win 1vs1 against ABS kds in ~~even terms you are good enough for compete with them. Problem is many kds choice to start small and compete with less active/organized kds. They grow middle age and how work sci system there is no way to beat kd who was bigger all age from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
ABS have to deal with 1 max 2 kds per age from begin. After it they got control on top and its easy to keep it with 4 kds in top 5.
About bad and good deals. Its don't depend only from your wish. You get deal what you can get. Some times you don't have choice. Good example for it is Rage this age. They was forced to gave 2 free waves and eoa nap. With sage who is supposed to be strong after midle age and they cant war his only competitor its make all kd setup pure waste.
*huggles*Quote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
If I were holding a grudge, I wouldn't have given you a CF at the start of the age(for nothing) and then gave you another CF(for nothing) after I dumped a bunch of our useless CFs. I would have screwed with you if I was holding a grudge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Quite frankly, I think I'm being one of the more reasonable people in the thread. The only kds I've had more issues with as far as diplo have been Sanctuary and Simians. Admittedly that's prolly because I've never been that big of a priority in talking with, but likewise I haven't really ever needed play hardball with people because of our casual play.
I haven't done or said anything disrespectful towards MA. You guys had a great age. I've been pretty vocal that you choosing to wave Sanctuary instead of Havoc was what cost you your crown and I'll continue to back that, but that's in no way insulting. If I think someone made a mistake, I'm going to tell them they made a mistake.
The one thing you're missing is that Abs doesn't play for #2. They might as well be #300 at that point. It's win or go home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
As far as them not routinely GB'ing the competition, that was exactly my point. People are saying it's rare that they DON'T do that when it's just the opposite.
elit i've said it plenty of times too there are alot of the war kds that are on par with any abs kd in the game and choseing not to grow to doesnt mean they are competing with less active/organized kds. I know of my wars this age alone we've been less active/organized that 3 of 5 kds. One kd got screwed by into hostile hits (though i still think we'd of won) and on kd wasted 90 hits in war as learns instead of actually trying to win and the Last kd just had a bad setup to face us but is actively trying to get better(http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...-is-Recruiting). The only war were we were clearly significantly better organized/active was 122% our size pre-war and got reported on in the "Barbies vs endurance war specialists" news report, but they waved us oop and had a pretty nice size advantage. I think you'll find alot of the "war" kds are like that too for example this age FS V Stoners, Or TUWAD V CanWE...Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Most of these kds
dont even chose to grow mid age, they just naturally do fighting each other or and random kd. If u want them to "compete" u need to change the system such that if they want to "catch" mid-late they dont have the massive science/wpa disadvantage. Dont make it so that a kd HAS to rush land whore oop or u're gonna end up with only simians, beastblood & your kd actually fighting each age before the controll the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
you have a good deal with 1 kd and your what 100k acres behind #4. Make the age 3-4 weeks longer and what'd happen you V simians 6 times in a row? Geting good deals by being in a position of power or forcing a good deal with a threat of acres to the competition are both very valid strategies, nice to see the mantle taken up when theres no real way to fight back. I mean seriously a 370k acre kd in HoH is feeding off a 215k acre kd in Beastblood, give it up theres no real sportsmanship in a fight there...this is the perfect time for a no i wont fight u u want acres i give them to your competition too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
If it was wasnt rare that they GB the competition then anytime they had 3+ of the top 5 they'd crown..compare my top 5 list to the crown list, they dont often gb unless they have a valid reason (see this age). And i disagree that they dont play for #2, why did mercy end at #4 last age 60k Below #3 when they clearly had no chance to win. If they just fought for fun they'd have slowed down and war'd my kd when we were even in acres after falling WAY behind. They had an open invitation to war whenever they wanted but instead land whored right past us as we set around waiting to see if other kds around us actually wanted war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
I would say that we do play for highest ranking we can get. Sure goal of course is going to be #1 but there is no shame in #2 or #5 or whatever you get. We continue to try to keep our top 3 spot but who knows if we get it :)
Mercy didn't need practice warring. They need practice whoring.
Also, reread what I said. I used a lot of negatives lol
Cant agree. Having name on "good WW kd" don't have any value if you cant compete with top land kds. Compete in land chart need many different skills for success. Waring is only 1 small part from it. Most WW kds fault terrible every time when try to grow because they cant success all aspect from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
Get wars can be hard but once you get WW none can remove if from your kd page. After reset all 25 provs you loss your honor and land but still keep WW record. Its why this is most low value chart. You cant loss what you gained. In land chart is complete different. If you cant protect land you gained all is go to hell. Its why this is most valuable and hard crown for win.
And you've been hilariously wrong every time you've said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-handicapping
Self-handicapping is the process by which people avoid effort in the hopes of keeping potential failure from hurting self-esteem.[1] It was first theorized by Edward E. Jones and Steven Berglas,[2] according to whom self-handicaps are obstacles created, or claimed, by the individual in anticipation of failing performance.[3]
@palem they have practice in both plenty they just wanted to end high in the charts...see goodz comments. They want to end big and in doing so very much dominate the top and could GB any higher ranked kd come eoa.
@elit Not saying the WW chart is meaningful, i do agree there. However i disagree that being good at the WW tier means they cant "compete" up top. It takes very few skills to get big and get top 5. sure it takes more to hold but im not saying those kds are better but they arent less organized/active when it comes to what they find enjoyable...war (why grow if all u want to do is war and abs isnt that much better that particular skill). HoH however has a decent complaint for the the few kds that arent smart enough to stay smaller are finally learning a new strategy: farmout cf's. Will be curious if the "top" kds figure out how to counter it to take advantage of the lack of care for acres WW kds have.
edit
When it comes to waring i hold that position, and you can disagree but i've fought plenty of kds on par with my kd in the past and the differnce between a list likeQuote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
and a list of kds i rank means very little. For example insolence as pewpew has beaten Sanc..oh no his list is wrong better knock sanc down a notch...lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by octobrev
extra edit
oh and Cats has beaten pulse not just once, better add them to the list i wonder where they rank.
Don't know for "top" KDS but i never had this kind problem this and past ages :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
There is ways for counter just wont share with abs ;)
Wow so next level. farmout cfs this Persain... What a player.
^^
First post in many months I am married now guys maybe I can play next age or something
pretty simple. when you CF abs from now on, stipulate that if they get farmout acres, it renders your CF void.
Problem is no one has the balls or skills to bump uglies with abs. That's the issue, not the lawyerese language.
congrats DDodge i was wondering where u disappeared to.
Everyone's so mad and ****.
Makes me so f***ing saD.
Nobody ever tried a 6000 province bounce party? - that was me kidding. ;-)
maybe persain is right; MAYBE stoners, FS, monument, band of brothers, etc could beat or at least pose a challenge to the top 5 in war. they could be "good players" but have different skills.
But we'll never know, because they are never in range of each other. As long as all the "warring" kingdoms exclude themselves from competition with kingdoms who are trying to be the best, then it's pretty hard to say that they are on par.
edit: this thread has taken a weird direction. Persain turned it into a repeat of palem's "we need more good KDs competing" thread lol. Which, actually, would probably have the end result of less blackmail and farmout threats :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
They are never in range of each other because the "warring" kds u mention do not have the complete skill set that the top 5 have. They can war for sure, but thats also the only skill they need and thus have. The top 5 kds need to be good at warring, whoring and diplomacy.
Its funny how the warring kds are only expected to be good at warring, while the whoring kds are expected to be both good at warring and whoring.
Furthermore the warring kds only pick a setup strong for warring while the whoring kds have to pick a setup that works for both warring and whoring, thus if they were to meet, the whoring kd would have a weaker war setup.
A good example of the difficoulty of this is to take a look at all the warring kds that have tried to get big and war in the top 10 or 5. Most of them, with a few exceptions, end up being big farms as more is required then just picking a hardcore war setup, prep for war undisturbed until ur as prepped as u can be, then war.
There is a big difference between warring big and warring small.
Crazy how a scrub like myself can see these things coming a mile away.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
The exception being the cover an alliance provides. This is not to question obvious skill, but to point out obvious advantage. Thus an alliance kingdom can risk a long range setup vs. A traditional war array. all is fair, and I think war kingdoms, short of egos respect the wide-ranging capabilities of top kingdoms. I do. - recognize the independents near the top as very skilled in all, but Absalom by demonstration of a steady alliance, best in diplomacy.
@ Shai.
* and just a note: an alliance is as easy as saying "let's do something together".
Newsflash: we're already bored.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
What you said in that thread is what we've been saying for yeaaaaaaaaaars. So it wasn't really a mile away it was kinda already in your face :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
First, how do you think taking the top 3 or dominating the top 5 for so long happens? I guess it has nothing to do with organization? Interesting. I expanded it to include AWAR's because that is usually the culmination of anti-Absalom efforts which always end in failure for the opposition. As per my original post on both account it as by any realistic measure been a failure. Nuff said.Quote:
Originally Posted by prot
If you get tired of reading my crap or what I post its quite easy dont reply to it, acknowledge it, etc. Dont get butthurt when I express a personal opinion about people QQ'ing constantly unless you think it pertains to you. Nuff said.
I only care so much as when it concerns my KD's or those of allies. Actually my posts have been completely on topic as this whole thread is a QQ fest directed towards my KD and allies.Quote:
Originally Posted by flutterby
Dont make their heads explode. Like you said, if we truly played as dirty as people constantly claimed and QQ'ed about all the time you would truly see domination on a much larger scale. Just because we dont bend over every single time we are prodded does not make us the bogeyman. At least someone can see that when you actually organize and act thats the way you will generate competition and not just QQ'ing about your problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
Considering you only tried to pursue us when you was 200% our size says enough. Imagine if we would have had a non-Sage war-focused setup. Please. Seeing as look at where we are and look at where you are I would say we made much better decisions than you did this Age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
That basically sums it up. Less QQ more bumping uglies ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Realest
Rage is big atm ONLY because:Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion
1.Sanctuary saved your ass. After Proteus complete messed your diplo+way you used pool i drop all talk with him. Only because Maxi spend 2 days to convince me Rage got CF from us.
2. AMA won age long ago, its why ABS push double hostile for stop us. Ever if Rage win atm its have ZERO VALUE. You and ABS loss already your age to AMA.
Just because you repeat things over and over doesnt make them true Elit. AMA didnt win anything, your not even remotely close to any Absalom KD or in contention. Even Sanctuary is pwning you and they have had one of their worst age ever. Make all excuses you want about it. Rage win has value, Rage didnt double anyone, ****play anyone, or anything else? Thats an interesting interpretation :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit