Har AMA lose?
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Har AMA lose?
So based on Elit logic, if I ever want to use my explore pool to cow, I should just engage in a hostile with someone, and start doubling provs and then there's nothing anyone else can do about it or it's 'make double hostile for 2v1 unfair advantage' right?
Good luck to Pew Pew! Beat some face in
Thank you to all those who support us in this action, the populace embracing us and showing continued support helps us thrive to take out the evil that has mutated into certain kingdoms! It's good knowing that even though we were wrongfully slandered the Utopian community believes the truth and not the defamation, we look forward to seeing you with many acres soon!
I told this to a few other people already on IRC yesterday: exploring a province up doesn't make a hostile less hostile.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
I explored a bank during a hostile because I could. That was my choice, my risk. Nobody else has a right to call it less hostile because I take my chances.
If AMA decides to explore during hostile, that's their risk and it doesn't make a hostile less hostile.
What is the big deal between 48h and 72h notice if AMA is just going to scream dealbreakdealbreak everywhere?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai
Furthermore: I always thought between a hostile end and a notice/wave there is a gentlemen's period of ~12 hours. I'm aware this wasn't honored always in the past but it still feels wrong to make a move within that time frame. I remember vaguely one situation where we gave a notice to an Absalom kingdom and it turned into a bit of a hassle so we ended up postponing the notice by 12 hours.
Bottomline is though, if there was a "no notice into hostile agreement", that agreement was broken by noticing before Jerks went into war.
I'm not surprised you're drawing stupid conclusions again, as you always do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
There is nothing wrong to explore during an active hostile. If you want to, go ahead. Your risk. In most cases though it won't work out because you'll have an under defended province with lack of wizards, making it easy for your opponent to control it.
No offense, but if the roles were reversed you would be intra razing or arranging a "war" yourselves. History confirms it. If you cannot see how this is unfair to AMA, then you're blind. If you want to be fair, give them more time to prepare and you will get the war you are after. I would expect AMA to give you the same time next age, if you show them good faith now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai
Ummmm, no. History was a kingdom claiming they wanted a war. Here it is clearly claimed that pew just wants free acres. The lack of hypocrisy on the part of pew is the telling difference here.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCurious
I doubt anyone would criticize AMA for intra razing.
i forsee hits into pewpew if they wont keep to a clear deal there former leader made with elit.
thought pewpew was better then that.
Elit demanding a weeks prep because pew and ama had their cf times confused is retarded. Max one should get is 72 houers. And that is if pew is nice.
Min time is 72h based to deal we have and if they are nice can agree on more after we had 6 days retal war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklove
So far i remember many times pew vulture other kd but dont remember single time being nice.
AMA is harsh to kds act bad to us and good to kds act fair. Its fact proved many times.
BTW all complain how we bully Jerks from Pew is pure nonsense.
What you did to Simians 2-3 ages ago when you won honor crown? Dont you force b2b war after you won first war. Dont come and tell me how we bully and you dont when you did same to Simians and was much more harsh.
I'm not privy to what terms were offered as you say I am retired but if you deal break someone and offer to cf them for free land for your kingdom, why would anyone accept that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Binar
If you do a forum search you will learn that when two kingdoms are fighting, one kd can't say hostile is over and start hitting another kd and expect the original aggressor to go away. Kingdoms like simians and sanc have done this in the past and it was not accepted for the community.
Two you will learn that giving a notice during a hostile is also a deal break and not acceptable.
Three the nw range of kds involved here is a non-issue as jerks core was in perfect range of ama's core when conflict began, this isnt waving a kd 50% nw range and calling it "hostile" to dodge someone like simians would do. You cant come in and say oh hostile is over the kd your fighting is too small. Who are you to dictate that.
From talking to you on irc, you seem like you care about the reputation of your kingdom, especially in war and want to prove you guys are good and can beat anyone. If thats the case wouldnt you want to fight kingdoms that are prepared, beat them, and they have nothing to say. When you vulture or deal break kingdoms it doesnt gain you respect and no one thinks you are good at war, just makes you look bad.
Honestly, if I was still playing and Absalom was around, I would gangbang you or at the very least 2v1 you because this **** cannot be allowed to continue. You kingdom has deal broken many times over, you have deliberately farmed out to shape charts, you claimed dibs by use of dragon project and 0 hits and threatened 2v1. Everyone has a little dirt in their past but the problem is you refuse to change and every age you do something lame. I seriously encourage anyone who wants to properly compete in the top to gangbang pewpew every age until they stop playing like this, force them to change or disband.
You guys arent crowning this age no matter how much land youd get from AMA via dealbreak, BB and Pyro would absolutely steam roll you and these guys arent getting into any fights where you can vulture them from so tough luck there, in the end you will just looking bad. Oh yeah did i forget to mention, their leaders are better than yours which also seals the deal.
Also bin bin in the past when a normal kingdom fought you when you were in a worse position and there was no deal break or any other bs involved, simply being more prepared than you...you guys intra raze yourselves, delete, or run to fw...so you dont allow anyone to take your acres fair and square but at the same time you guys deal break and pull other ****s to supplant others. Great sportsmanship.
Unknown n00b this is more of that claiming bs, just because pewpew wants to fight someone the kingdom in question has to roll over, forefeet all strategic options and goals available to them and obey pewpew or be deal broken. Get your head out of the sand, this is why a lot of people that were good no longer play, the landscape is dominated by n00bs like youQuote:
Originally Posted by Minty
Few things I know from my experience with Elit, cello and crew:
They always try to play smart and set traps. I can bet that cello intentionally confirmed 48hrs notice cause Elit had plans to farm from Jerks till a point where jerks can not retal much and he can pump and explore his main provincies while claiming he is hostile to prevent pew pew declaring. Well the thing they though will never happen is Jerks entrering war and btw AMA hit Jerks into the war - which is real and not fake as AMA claims. We stopped all ops and hits 2hrs before Pewpew notice you not to mention the open cf offer, so take take and prepare. Or maybe doubling your 2 halfers same time u got noticed didn't like you much a?
The thruth is one and always will be you though you are smarter than everyone else and you got ****ed thats it, same way you got us ****ed when Absalom doubled us, cause you were too greedy and that costed us the age. Now you make same mistake again.
If you ask me I would end my war asap wait for you to get into war with pew pew and raze the **** out of your ****ing silly kingdom, but lucky for you tetley is man enough to stand up to fairplay and etc....
Go pew, suck it AMA
People explore in war too. I've explored in a hostile before myself. It doesn't mean you arent in hostile, some provinces in hostile are unbreakable and you explore them as part of your strategy. Doesnt surprise me because most of your posts in forums show a lack of basic understanding and are merely trash talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
Proteus gangbang for a confusion of cf terms ?
What kind if n00b are you to unilaterally decide hostile is over without negotiating with the kd you are hostile with. Just because you decide to stop hitting and coordinate with another kd to screw the kd that was hitting you doesnt mean its legitimate. Quite frankly you should be gbed for this. Last time you ran your big mouth and said jerks is as good as ama and so are your leaders, remember how hard i laughed at you? All you've proven so far is to be a tier-3 ghetto who cant hack it in too in a watered down era and when things dont go your way you **** play like setup farm wars and fake wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendel1
It's not a confusion of cf terms its deliberate deal break.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklove
Pewpew coordinated with jerks to artificially end real hostile. It was exactly the same situation how havoc and sanc coordinated to have sanc "end" a real hostile so havoc can hit in.
Jerks cant jus decide hostile is over and run to arranged war and bring another kd in to fight. If this happened to us it would result in gb from Abs.
Giving notice in hostile is not a confusion of cf terms, its a deal break.
Ignoring cf terms made by a leader who quit the kd (cf terms still apply) is a deal break.
Given pewpew's history and all the lame **** they have done you can clearly see there is no confusion, pewpew knows what they are doing and its what they do best (**** playing)
When one of the kingdoms is not doing ops or hits and offered cf it is clear no hostile - are you retarded to see it?
Last time I said Jerks is better than AMA we were better and we won that age, even after the agreed LL farming from Havoc for 8k acrs just ot screw us over in the last 15mins of the age.
Anyway I still got friends in AMA and I think the **** Elit &cello gave to jerks was not fair at all. You wanted war - ok we gave you one, you won and thats it you got 15k acrs, but no you greedy ****s wanted more and more, you even though that you are so safe that you started exploring your provincies while kept hitting us, wtf where did you think this will end? Pew gives you 2 weeks more so you can pump as hell and **** them up? Come on you got what you asked for, from what I see pew pew is smaller in size so you got every chance to win :-)
proteus if i recall right then haoc hit straight into the kd thqat sanc ended hostile with. If so very different than giving notice.
And a hostile is basicly over the moment the kd u are hostile with enters another war. So basicly free to serve them notice.
Cf terms that was agreed on was confimed by ama to be 48 houers 3x times. If pew then assumes that is right then they break deal ?
Your bias is as always fun to read :-)
I think all of this has come as EJ was pissed with AMA bullying them... I don't think EJ would have communicated (if they did... I think they did) if AMA was not being unreasonable beating a dead horse.
But really, by Elit logic, next time I want to explore provinces safely, I should just hit a ghetto half my size, and start doubling provs, and every top KD will respect my hostile and definitely really not attack me, right Elit?
Its 2 completely different scenarios. You cannot claim to be hostile with a kd half your size, but this is not the case here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
I agree that the farming went alittle overboard in this case, but i still think pew could grant ama some more time to prep to be fair. I mean, if they want to promote fair play now is their chance to do so. It would also help them next age when doing diplo with elit, atleast thats my opinion on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
3 A Mothers Advice (x:x) Icia 113,843 acresQuote:
Originally Posted by MrCurious
9 jerks v 3-31 (x:x) Alia 55,769 acres
jerks are less than half of AMA's size...how this different?
Because they started half their size right? I dont think they did Palem, i think you know what i mean...Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
+ they went into war with another kd who is currently outgaining them, so 55k was not their end size when they went into their arranged war.
that being said, i agree the farming went too far in this case.
/facepalmQuote:
Originally Posted by Meep
There is nothing wrong to explore during an active hostile. If you want to, go ahead. Your risk. In most cases though it won't work out because you'll have an under defended province with lack of wizards, making it easy for your opponent to control it.
Of course this hostile lasted longer than it should have under normal circumstances, but you can't end a hostile on your own by sending a CF over. Running away to someone else has never ended a conflict before. It just puts the runner in a worse position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendel1
The result is the same. In both cases you lose a lot of stuff. Not even sure which one is worse to be honest.Quote:
When I tell you that there's a difference between deal-breaking and bullying you don't even get what I'm saying and instead immediately put me down as "them" who don't "give a ****" about a "noob" like yourself. This alone is pretty telling.
I'm gonna have to spell out the difference.
- Bullying: A better kingdom takes your stuff because you're not able to defend it.
- Deal-Breaking: You make a deal with someone and wait until their backs are turned from trusting your word, then you backstab them.
If this is the same for you then I don't know what else to tell you.
I can't be bothered to find the thread but RBL was accused of being in a fake hostile when they were hostile with a kd ~60-70% their size and we was ridiculed for being tagged "hostile". I think if one kingdom goes to war it is obvious all hits are going to stop and that the hostile is over. It could be deemed bad play how it has been done but I think it has all been done within the rules/constraints the community has set over the years.
*edit* before anyone says anything, when hostile started RBL was I believe within 10% land range.
July 2 of YR6 The Tor (JERKS) captured 254 acres of land from on the battlefield (AMA).
For what it's worth all ops and hits were ordered to stop this tick (the 2nd), some noob hit them 3 hours later (for 88 acres...)
I don't think there's a hard line where a hostile starts and stops. There's a number of factors:
a) I had asked for CF like 48 hours or so before that, and I was told that we'd get a CF when either we warred or our biggest province was 70% the size of AMA's smallest province (does this seem reasonable?)
b) Our activity and ability to return fire had definitively dropped over the 24 hours prior to us going to war.
c) They were 16k acres up.
d) They had started doubling multiple provinces - which alone doesn't necessarily void the hostile, but it clearly indicates that AMA felt confident enough with the state of things to take the risk, because our capability to control them was so shot.
e) We ordered ops stopped, began a conflict with another kingdom (which shortly escalated to war), and offered CF.
f) We had no intent to war AMA and we wanted the conflict to end, and they were well aware of both.
Edit: g) Based on their terms in a), I'll add that AMA gave us no realistic or fair way to escape the hostile any other way. (Unfair because of the effect such actions would have on the chart...)
To me it's clear that AMA had long since reached the point where they would RATHER be in hostile than have the conflict over, because it was allowing them to explore large amounts and claim hostile protection. Even by the time we delivered our last hit, there wasn't much of a relevant battle happening at all anymore...
Certainly none of these things on their own end the conflict, but I think all taken together the balance tips towards the hostile being over? And if not permanently over, then at least on a temporary hold, the sort of which allows a notice to be served...
Hostile is mechanical, just so we can all get on the same logic scale. Diplo adds frilly stuff to the balance of hostile. Either you abide the frilly stuff by some abstract agreement or hostile is the mechanical standard we all know through the server.
- So when you debate hostile, please designate the nature of the comments: based in mechanics and/or based in diplo.-
If I don't understand what you're talking about I'm assuming it's diplo. Let me rephrase; since you confuse some honor system that you clearly exploit, my intuition is to ignore " diplo " and follow the mechanical hostile. Doesn't that make sense? If you're using words to ignore a mechanical feature in the game then I had better benefit. See.
Do you play in pewpew?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklove
A hostile is over the moment both hostile kingdoms AGREE TO END HOSTILITIES. Its a bi-lateral decision, not a uni-lateral one. If that was the case anyone can get out of a hostile they cant win any time by starting a conflict with another kd and the kd that's left in the lurch can be preyed upon others. That's not how it works.
What havoc did with sanc was the exact thing. A uni-lateral end to a hostile followed by a vulture. You cant have one kd (Sanc) decide hostile is effectively over and have another kd (havoc) hit in. Same way jerks cant say hostile is over and have pewpew step in. Pewpew is not allowed to give notice until hostile is agreed to be over by both parties (presence of accepted in-game cf).
Unless you play in pewpew which would be pretty funny, there is no other reason for you to argue these points.
And you are right, I do have bias - I am biased towards playing by established standards in the top which doesn't include ****playing unprovoked to such an extent. Until pewpew is gbed and punished properly they will keep playing this way, this is a lesson to all you guys who want to compete for land properly and fairly.
Rofl. first, calling for a gb without anything happening is lame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Second, war cancels all relations....that means ama is not occupied. This "running" to fights where you have a chance has been done since the start of utopia
So if PewPew ends up giving AMA 72h after Jerks entered their war, this sh*tstorm of whining would come to an end?
You n00bs fail to realize that hostile is more than mechanical. If that's the case then you can escape any hostile when you are losing with an arranged war, wipe the "hostile" away from kd page, and have your friends prey on the kd left outside of war. Sorry that isn't acceptable to anyone that plays in the top. Lastly both of these kingdoms are still "hostile" to each other by game mechanics, meter exists and decays while at war, you just cant see it on kd page. How do you think you can give button to a kd thats in war and they can declare when coming out? You guys are just retarded.
Obviously NOT! You must also give AMA & Jerks time to sort out a CF deal. Without ingame CF both are Hostile - which is a dealbreak to even Notice AMA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai
So please take your Notice back and give AMA & Jerks time to CF then Notice AMA. Jerks are at war now so maybe need like 4 days (maybe more) to get CF ironed out since they are busy at the moment. Its only fair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
One, he doesn't play for us.
Two, you don't dictate rules by any means, they accepted this CF offer from Jerks, July 7 of YR6 jerks v xx (jerks) has proposed a formal ceasefire with our kingdom. Arent you allegedly retired? I would figure you have better things to do besides getting involved in other peoples business and I'm sure Elit can speak for himself and doesn't need your biased, [as you stated] speculation.
Three, unprovoked is entirely wrong, <Cello> Fair enough, guess we'll see you guys again after our war with Jerks then, he even acknowledged there was to be a conflict and knew to prepare, instead targeted someone with no ability nor will nor want to fight back. Even got cocky enough to start exploring multiple provinces up. Calling for a Pew GB just shows how a candle always burns brightest before it goes out, just let it rest already.
So do you support AMA if they were hitting Jerks OOW because they are still considered "hostile"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Even though Jerks's successfully ran away vs AMA?
Seems like you condone one "bully tactic" to defend another one...double standards!!
lotsa respect to pewpew, rare to see that kinda spotmanship in UT now days.
Huge props from here (to people that dident know pewpew gave ama 24 houers more)