depends on situation, but Hman or dorf/sage is one of top combos now for ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
And off-topic who is gonna play ork with that -20% sci effct. 100 or so weirdos?
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depends on situation, but Hman or dorf/sage is one of top combos now for ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
And off-topic who is gonna play ork with that -20% sci effct. 100 or so weirdos?
Races:
Avian
-30% Attack Time
+50% Birth Rate
Ambush Immunity
Cannot use Stables
+15% Gains on Learns & Plunders
Elite: 7/2 650gc 5.75nw
Spell Book: Clearsight , Fanaticism , Greater Protection
Dwarf
+25% Building Efficiency
Free Building Construction and Can Use Credits To Raze Buildings
Can’t use Accelerated Construction nor Builders Boon
+ 50% food consumption
Spellbook: Fools Gold, Mystic Aura, Pitfalls
Elite: 6/3, 800gc, 6.5 nw
Elf
+ 25% Spell Success (WPA)
+1 defensive specialist strength
Spellbook: Nightmares, Pitfalls, Invisibility
Elite: 6/4, 850gc, 6.50NW
Faery
+ 20% Combat Instant Spell Damage
+ 20% Sabotage Operation Damage
+ 20% Spell Duration
+1 mana per tick in war
+1 stealth per tick
Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/6, 750gc, 6.5 NW
Halfling
+40% Thievery Operation Success (TPA)
-50% thief cost
+10% population
+1 offensive specialist strength
Cannot use hospitals
Spellbook: Mages Fury, Aggression
Elite: 4/5, 400gc, 5.75 nw (soldiers 1:1)
Human
+ 15% Offensive Military Efficiency
- 15% on all Battle Gains
Spellbook: Fountain of Knowledge, Quick Feet
Elite: 7/2, 900, 6.0 nw
Orc
+30% Attack Gains
Free draft
+25% Enemy casualties when attacking
-15% science effectiveness
Spellbook: Reflect Magic, Fanaticism
Elite: 8/1, 750gc, 6.25 nw
Undead
-75% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Spreads and is Immune to The Plague
No Food Required
Basic Thievery (Intel operations only)
Spellbook: Town Watch, Animate Dead
Elite: 8/2, 950gc, 7.0 nw
Personas:
The Merchant
+20% Income Science
Gain 33% more Specialist and Building Credits
Immune to Income Penalties
Access to Tree of Gold
Starts with +1600 specialist credits
The Sage
+40% Science Effectiveness
Access to Amnesia
Starts with 40000 science books
Every 3 Acres produce 1 free science point per tick
The Rogue
+1 Stealth recovery per tick
+ 100% land effect from Thieves Dens
Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
+50% Thievery Science Effectiveness
Access to Vermin
Starts with +400 thieves
The Mystic
All Guilds are twice as effective
+1 mana per tick
+50% Magic Science Effectiveness
Access to Meteor Showers, Chastity, Nightmares
Starts with +200 Wizards
Every Acre produces 1 rune per tick
The Warrior
+15% Offensive Military Efficiency in War
Enhanced Conquest range
Access to Bloodlust
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
+1 General
All Dungeons 2x Capacity
The Tactician
-15% Attack Time
Accurate Espionage
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
All successful hits take 50% more peasants
Immune to Pitfalls
Immune to Explosions
The Cleric
-40% Your Military Casualties (on attack and defense)
Immune to The Plague
Immune to Droughts & Storms
Access to Animate Dead
Animate Dead 2x effective
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The War Hero
+50% Military Efficiency Science
+50% Honor Effects
-50% Training Time Taken
-50% Building Speed
-50% mercenary cost
+2 Mercenary Offensive Strength
All Specialists and Elites do 1 additional point of damage when slaying dragon
Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks
Immune to Dragon effects
Access to War Spoils
Starts with 400 elites
All Specialists are 5 point units
thats some piss good changes! Well done!Quote:
Originally Posted by copious
Think you caught me in the middle of tweaking lol. It's done now.
why does people compare human warriors to orc undead on other personalities. make the comparison fair, if the human is warrior compare it to orc or undead warrior.
don't know why ppl is so upset about the human ome/warrior personality. we already have it this age. they only made the human ome effective at all times and made the personality ome change depending on war realations. which to me makes more sence.
atm I do play human attacker and oow I feel weak, in war I'm capable to challenge orc and undeads in off.
removing tog how ever will put them in disadvantage compared to orcs free draft and undeads reduced cashualties.
adding -20% gains for an attacking race and no way to counter it, by added gen or some building will suck. bad max gains, and very bad for chain strat. feels like humans will have the means to be competetive opa wise going into war, but with no tog a long war will be fatal, and crap gains will be like having the means to fight but no way to reaping the reward.
I'd like to see maby Lowe BE bonus on dwarves and 5/5 elites- make them into the pure turtlerace they used to be.
and this age I felt birthrates in war is just to low. even with 20% homes and L&P and kidnapps I couldn't recoup from t/m ops. pretty lame that 2 t/m can fb away 30k peasants in an inital fb wave, put MeS, then jsut have to comeback every 12-24hrs and do a few more fb's to make sure you stay down at 3-5k peasants which can't support j-****.
even with all them spells making like 300 peasants per hour with a 100k+ tot pop, MeS killing like 150 per hour and fb's still killing like 300-500 per op when peasant rate is down to 3000 from 35000. so in the later wars as human A, thank god for tog since peasants was down to 3000, with l&p and 20% homes and kidnapps I sometimes managed to get back up to 7000-10000 peasants in 12-16hrs just enought to be able to pay 200% wages again. and then comes 1 t/m again with a few fb's and puts the prov back at 3000 peasants.
it's been way to easy to Control peasants/pop, please increase the overall basic birthrates, I mean for all races-
massacres also been freaky weaird. do they get stronger as war prolongs? why arn't the dmg from massacres nw controlled like all other attacks? we had 2 wars where we after war declaration started with massacres then chains on attackers and opponents doing the opposite. we hit on provs in decent nw range 90-110%, they hit on provs up to 250%. and at the end when looking at the war conclusions with the same ammount of massacres from both sides but at different timestamps in war, they Always killed about 2x more then we did on average.
-20% gains on an attacker race is very very bad, it is true.
I actually do wish the pure attackers had higher offense values so that hybridization could put 6 on an elite and such.
I like what you did with WH. but I bet they do not have time to implement.Quote:
Originally Posted by copious
lemme write up tweaks too:
avian:
elite upgrade to 6/2, same nw and same cost.
dwarf:
elite: 5/4, 5.75nw, 700gc.
food penalty removed
+1 offspec strength
gain reflect magic
elf:
elite: 5/3, 5nw, 600gc
-40% defensive troop losses
gain clear sight
faery:
lose sabotage and instant damage spell bonuses
+30% spell duration (was +20%)
Flat-rate and capacity buildings (except homes) are 25% more effective
-5% maximum population
elite nw down to 5.5
halfling:
elite nw drop to 5
lose +1 ospec
+3 capacity for homes
-30% thief cost (down from -50%)
+30% tpa (down from +50%)
human:
no change
orcs:
elite: 7/2, 800gc, 6.25nw
-30% troop training time
-30% build time
lose reflect and clear sight
gain animate dead
undead:
-60% offensive losses (was -75%)
100% of fallen troops revive as basic soldiers
lose animate dead
elite: 7/1, 700gc, 6nw
merchant:
+30% effect of tools science
Remove Income Penalty Immunity
sage:
+20% science effects (was +40%)
-50% research cost
Amnesia spell
Start with 25000 books (was 40000)
rogue:
+40% sabotage damage
remove +1 stealth/tick
mystic:
+20% instant spell damage
warrior:
-50% wages
+1 prisoner strength
+50% effect of slave labor (income and BE)
tactician:
+30% effect of military science in addition to current bonuses
+50% TPA on espionage ops (attacking and defending)
cleric:
+30% effect of food science
Immune to Income Penalties
war hero:
Remove dragon immunity
+30% effect of housing science
all of these are in addition to the current effects unless specifically removed/altered.
The original Topsy was on time with these things. This lousy sequel is just embarrassing. Empire Strikes Back he is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
almost agree to the no Changes to human in terms of keeping the current penalty with increased science costs instead of planned -20% gains.
I Think it ould be interresting to see ToG being removed from human as racial and then also faerys.
also merchants could get +10% income aswell as being immune to income penalties and having tog. so they really would get rich and fat and be bank / supporter for sure.
animate dead should stay with undead. Always been for undeads. just like orcs used to have bloodlust. which i Think they should have again.
And on the subject of Human -20% gains with no way to counter? Lies, all lies.
It's called Human Tactician. Add enough Barracks to achieve 8 hour attack time. Add 4 hours to your attack for extra gains. Achieve standard 12 hour attack time with normal gains. Not ideal, but if you want the free science bonus and NW efficiency of being Human... you make some adjustments.
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge View Post
!addreminder 11 weeks. Post suggestions.
__________________
well if it's to late to change bigger things for age 66, mods could still take some notes and Think about it for age 67-
Any chance elf generals could add to def when at home, the same they add to offence when you send them out? Like a built in fanaticism.
I would like to see them with an attacking buff spell like bloodlust or QF to.
Copius has some good change ideas there !
I think the value of the dwarf warrior is understated as people focus on human warriors. Yes, free sci w/FoK is nice and +44% automatic OME in war is awesome...but a dwarf warrior can easily match a lot of OME using TG (easier than other races with the increase BE).
Ultimately the human can stay ahead on OME also focusing on TG (though much more % land for TG than dwarves need to achieve respective bonuses), but the dwarf doesn't suffer -20% gains...they only have to worry about a little food, which can easily be donated. Dwarf also gets PF, while human doesn't, so KD that has dwarf warriors doesn't have to be concerned with having clerics for casting PF.
I vote we do everything copious said :) was a quick glance since I'm at work, but looked like everything was made strong, so it would come down to how well you can optimize vs making a KD composition of the 2 most OP races
Avian is a great race though its bonuses against good kds are actually massive disadvantages. They can do really well in the right hands. But the good kds will pick them apart quite easily. That's my only real issue. WH is pretty lame but it has always been. Dorf Leets are not worth that kind of nw.
also agree with everything copious said. +1
I would say some good suggestions there, but numbers need more work on themQuote:
Originally Posted by ThRaZe
I would suggest based on prop changes:
Elf
+ 30% Spell Success (WPA)
+1 defensive specialist strength
-25% defensive combat losses
Spellbook: Nightmares, Pitfalls, Invisibility
Elite: 5/4, 700gc, 6NW
Halfling
+40% Thievery Operation Success (TPA) from 50%
-50% thief cost
+10% population
+1 offensive specialist strength
Cannot use hospitals
Spellbook: Aggression, Mages Fury
Soldiers 2:2 Elite: 4/4, 350gc, 5.25NW
Orc
+30% Attack Gains
Free draft
+25% Enemy casualties when attacking
-10% science effectiveness, back to -10% from 20%
Spellbook: Reflect Magic, Clear Sight
Elite: 7/1, 750gc, 6NW
The Tactician
-20% Attack Time from -15%
Accurate Espionage
Access to Clear Sight
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The Cleric
-20% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense) - from -30%
Immune to The Plague
Access to Pitfalls
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The War Hero
+100% Honor Effects
-50% Military training time
Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks
Immune to Dragon effects
Access to War Spoils
Starts with 400 elites
edit:
would also suggest ruby dragon bumped from -8% ME to -10% ME
copious's suggestion was 100% terrible. I don't normally say things like this but
1 - they are extremely unbalanced
2 - they are way too drastic after the proposed changes have already been released
3 - they are probably intentionally troll and y'all are friends/kd mates asked/dared to say you like them OR you really do like them and don't see 1 and 2
so I'm saying they are terrible because they appear to be intentionally terrible
likewise, noobium -- usually you have some great ideas, but that was pretty sub-par for what you normally post. Dwarves with +30% BE and Faery with +25% BE on capacity buildings except homes and -5% pop?? wtf how on earth do you think that's balanced...lol, I sorta stopped reading after that.
I could see those...I personally would rather have the changes as they are proposed...but good suggestions neverthelessQuote:
Originally Posted by nameisis
Specifically -- Orc are too strong. Remove CS please and/or keep their -20% science effectiveness. I'm saying this while being pretty sure I'm playing Orc.
The Cleric suggestion I like -- but if that's the case, I would highly suggest dropping Undead losses to -50% or possibly even lower.
I DO, however, VERY much agree that Ruby Dragon needs a buff. Hopefully not too late to change it...but Ruby Dragon is way underpowered compared to the other ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smercjd
I don't agree are too strong, they have their good sides and bad sides. CS and RM look good on paper, but they are too easily vortexed if you are being put as target. Now with -20% sci anyone could vortex, plus big losses on pop,TM def and income, BE is too much for already most fragile race.
Cleric has two big bonuses losses and immunity to plague. Lowering losses to -20% or -30%, doesn't need to make UD changes to UD off losses. Plague immunity already makes UD inferior when warring against cleric. And cleric is why Ork looked so good this age.
These are my finalized views for the changes based on the proposed changes.
Green = Changed/Added
Red = Removed
Avian
-30% Attack Time
+50% Birth Rate
Ambush Immunity
-30% Training Time
-30% Construction Time
+ 1 General
Cannot use Stables
Elite: 6/1, 500gc, 5.25 nw
Spellbook: Fanaticism, Greater Protection
Dwarf
+35% Building Efficiency
Free Building Construction and Can Use Credits To Raze Buildings
Can’t use Accelerated Construction
+ 100% food consumption
Spellbook: Fools Gold, Mystic Aura, Pitfalls
Elite: 6/2, 700gc, 6NW
Elf
+ 30% Spell Success (WPA)
+1 defensive specialist strength
Self-Spells use 2% Mana (Instead of 3%. Yes, including ToG if they go Merchant)
Spellbook: Nightmares, Pitfalls, Invisibility, Chastity
Elite: 5/4, 800gc, 5.75NW
Faery
+ 25% Combat Instant Spell Damage
+ 25% Sabotage Operation Damage
+ 25% Spell Duration
+1 mana per tick in war
+1 stealth per tick
Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 4/5, 900gc, 6.5NW
Halfling
+50% Thievery Operation Success (TPA)
-50% thief cost
+20% population
+1 offensive specialist strength
Cannot use hospitals
Spellbook: Aggression, Mages Fury, Vermin
Soldiers 2:2 Elite: 4/4, 300gc, 5NW
Human
+ 20% Offensive Military Efficiency
Every 3 acres generates 1 book of science
- 20% battle gains
Spellbook: Fountain of Knowledge, Quick Feet
Elite: 6/3, 750, 5.75NW
Orc
+30% Attack Gains
Free draft
+25% Enemy casualties when attacking
-20% science effectiveness
Spellbook: Reflect Magic, Clear Sight
Elite: 7/1, 700gc, 6.25NW
Undead
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Spreads and is Immune to The Plague
No Food Required
Basic Thievery (Intel operations only)
Spellbook: Town Watch, Animate Dead
Elite: 7/2, 800gc, 6.5NW
Personality
The Merchant
Gain 50% more Specialist and Building Credits
Immune to Income Penalties
Access to Tree of Gold
Starts with +1600 specialist credits
The Sage
+40% Science Effectiveness
Access to Amnesia
Starts with 40000 science books
The Rogue
+1 Stealth recovery per tick
+ 100% land effect from Thieves Dens
Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
+75% Thievery Science Effectiveness
Access to Invisibility
Starts with +400 thieves
The Mystic
All Guilds are twice as effective
+1 mana per tick
+50% Magic Science Effectiveness
Access to Meteor Showers, Nightmares, Chastity, Mage's Fury
Starts with +200 Wizards
The Warrior
+20% Offensive Military Efficiency in War
Enhanced Conquest range
Access to Bloodlust
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The Tactician
-15% Attack Time
Accurate Espionage
Access to Clear Sight
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The Cleric
-50% Defensive Military Casualties
Immune to The Plague
Access to Pitfalls
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The War Hero
+100% Honor Effects
+1 Offensive Specialist Strength
Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks
Immune to Dragon effects
Access to War Spoils
Starts with 400 elites
Ruby Dragon: -12% ME
Explanation for War Hero -- I think it solves a lot of problems. Gives them that extra umph. Allows TM races to hybrid better. And the +1 O-Spec Strength goes hand-in-hand with the conversion...it just makes sense. If none of the other things stick...I'd REALLY like to see this change the most.
So you make undead even ****tier... meanwhile dwarf is still a top pick.
Cleric is still really good with 40%, no need to buff it back. I like your War Hero tho.
The currently suggested cleric would have only 30% tho. Still good?Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
I'd keep it at 40%.
smercjd is suggesting only def losses not both. But -40% as in this age is too muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Too much cause all the humans maybe.
30% is 10% landspace, like tactician. Pretty meh.
Smerc, I had th same idea not 5 minutes ago re halfling. Take away their off spec deal and give them crazy pop. I also like the previous suggestion to give halfling +5 per home or so.
Because tradition is a poor excuse for mediocrity.Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsdk
Undead is not ****ty imo at all. They are slightly weaker this age due to current human and Orc. But if you read the nerf to orcs and the proposed changes to human and cleric, undead would be too strong with -75% losses...and 50% is not that much lower...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Dwarf losing pf, elite dropping to 6/2, and food consumption go +100% is more balanced than the proposed changes imo.
And cleric would -50% DEFENSIVE losses. Not losses all the way around. Quite differentt.
Yes. Defensive only would do the trick I thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by nameisis
What???Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger
Nice! :) great minds think alike?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andurilas
Obviously I like my suggestions...but uh...avian might be too strong...not sure @_@
Just think ambush immunity is a little much for certain playstyles (glares at whoring kds)
Landspace saved - I think it's a decent way to evaluate a personality, or at least it was before we got make-or-break bonus spells. Sure, you can't equate things like the War Hero gets, that's for kd purpose/playstyle. Bringing cleric down to 30% severely hits their score compared to tactician and merchant.
Avian looks strong in the proposed changes and the iterations in this thread for the same reason. Their penalty is minor compared to what humans and orcs have to suffer.
Sight, can't ambush immunity just stay the hell dead. It's a bad mechanism that's incredibly annoying oow and much more so in war. Sure Avians needs a significant boost but ambush immunity is just something that should stay dead