What Palem said. ��
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What Palem said. ��
I understand if you only watch MSNBC or CNN you wouldn't know about the built in penalties and fines that where in the Paris Treaty. The self imposed terms are true but the President didn't have the authority to impose or agree to impose most of the agreement. Senate and the house would have had to approve it, also would have had to pass new laws to be in compliance with the agreement. Obama did a end around Congress trying to bypass our democratic system. Hence it would have been deemed unconstitutional. I understand the Democrats hate our constitution as it stands in there new fascist agenda. I mean Democrats are trying to take away our presidents 1st admenment right by blocking him from Twitter. Because they hate the fact he can get the truth out there instead of the media spin. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
"How will parties be held accountable?
Accountability will be achieved primarily through an “enhanced transparency framework.” All countries are required to submit emissions inventories and the “information necessary to track progress made in implementing and achieving” their NDCs. These reports will be subject to an independent review by technical experts and a “facilitative, multilateral consideration of progress” by fellow governments.
Unlike the current transparency system under the UNFCCC, which sets different requirements for developed and developing countries, the new transparency framework will apply to all countries but provide “built-in flexibility” to accommodate varying national capacities. The aim is for all parties to work toward the same standards of accountability as their capacities strengthen over time.
In addition, the agreement establishes a new mechanism to “facilitate implementation and promote compliance.” This “non-adversarial” committee of experts will seek to help countries falling behind on their commitments get back on track. There are no penalties for noncompliance."
Wrong.Quote:
The self imposed terms are true but the President didn't have the authority to impose or agree to impose most of the agreement. Senate and the house would have had to approve it, also would have had to pass new laws to be in compliance with the agreement. Obama did a end around Congress trying to bypass our democratic system. Hence it would have been deemed unconstitutional.
"Did Congress have any say over the agreement?
Under U.S. law, a president may under certain circumstances approve U.S. participation in an international agreement without submitting it to Congress. Important considerations include whether the new agreement is implementing a prior agreement such as the UNFCCC that was ratified with the advice and consent of the Senate, and whether it is consistent with, and can be implemented on the basis of, existing U.S. law. Because the agreement does not include binding emission targets, or binding financial commitments beyond those contained in the UNFCCC, and can be implemented on the basis of existing law, President Obama chose to approve it by executive action."
Source:
https://www.c2es.org/international/2...imate-talks-qa
Sorry it's not freedompatriotsagainstlibtards.biz or whatever backwards ass site you subscribe to, but I think it covers things pretty well.
If you'd like to claim that there are penalties you're gonna need to cite it.
Also, lol @ hating the constitution. Obama taught constitutional law. I'd bet my life savings that Trump hasn't read it once.
It's like looking into a mirror lol
http://i.imgur.com/EaMhKta.jpg
We will never agree on anything that's obvious. But seeing 3/4 of the state's support Trump he isn't ever going to be impeached and will be re-elected. I suggest the other 1/4 just focused on their own problems seeing most of them are massively in debt. Like California, Illinois, New York Washington State. Places like that should worry about there own problems and stop wasting their time kicking and screaming about Trump.
I'm happy to agree with any number of things that I'm sure you believe such as
"Donald Trump is the president of the United States"
"Hilary Clinton is was a ****ty presidential candidate that was shoved down people's throats"
"There are way too many government representatives that are more interested in their bank accounts than representing their constituents."
"I love America and want to see us continue to grow into a better and stronger country"
However, when you start talking about things that have no basis in reality like
"Climate Change is a fake"
"The Paris agreement has tons of hidden penalties"
"The democrats sent that Russian lawyer to frame Trump"
Etc
Then yes, I'm gonna call you out on your nonsense and make it as clear as I can that you're wrong. If not for your own benefit, then at the very least anyone reading that legitimately doesn't know.
Oh boy... Here we go again with the misinformation. Where do you get this stuff? Can you post any article backing these claims?Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Who is trying to block Trump from using Twitter? I know republicans have had to try and keep him off of it for their own sake but there is no democrat trying to get his account blocked. More lies it seems?
Media spin? What do we call the spin you and king Trumpturd put out?
What? How can 3/4ths of the States support Trump when he has a 38% approval rating? He is barely 6 months into his presidency and failing at everything with his party controlling all 3 branches of government. Republicans were so focused on being the 'no' party for the last 8 years that they forgot how to actually work on writing actual policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Wow... Why didn't all these poor subsidized republican states focus on their own problems instead of kicking and screaming about Obama for 8 years?
If I were a democrat, blocking Trumps Twitter account would be the last thing I'd want. Trump is making a fool out of himself there which makes his re-election impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Conservative policies are what's destroying the US. IMO the US needs to raise taxes significantly, especially on the wealthiest and rebuild their countries infrastructure and give the people universal health care. Health care should be considered a basic human right. Lower taxes do not create more income for the government. The conservatives need to stop their cult like way of thinking about economics. Raising taxes is basically the worst thing you could ever say or do as a politician in America because of the conservative's idiotic view of economics and the governments role.
In all honesty though I could care less what the US does as I'm not American and I'm just trying to get my post count up to 5 so I can PM someone. :P
Problem with the government is not a income problem, it's a waste and abuse Problem. Dirty secret of every government agency from the top to the bottom they waste money, steal money and are incompetent with money. Raising taxes will do nothing beside transfer wealth from the rich to other rich people that work for the government. Also dirty secret of universal health care is cost management. Basically makes doctors government employees who won't make millions of dollars a year. But 100 to 200k a year. Nurses and everyone in the healthcare field will have to make less also to make universal healthcare work. Which then will have a domino effect on college's and the pharmaceutical companies forcing many to bankrupt. This is why saying universal healthcare is the answer and actually doing it are very different things. It would be a very messy transition.
Agree about government wasting money.
The stuff about universal healthcare is unfounded rubbish. Doctors in countries with universal healthcare live very well. Also, private practices would still exist. The entire cosmetic industry isn't suddenly not going to exist because the country started giving basic healthcare to it's citizens.
The one speck of truth is that the transistion would be tricky. Pretty much the entire healthcare insurance industry would cease to exist so you'd probably have to aid those people losing their jobs with either new government jobs, working in the new healthcare system, or severance packages to give them time to find new jobs something along those lines. No one should get the rug pulled out from under them.
Burn! Canuckleheads for the win!Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic00
-DM <3
Raising taxes pays for wars that we haven't been paying for, infrastructure that has been ignored, peoples healthcare etc etc etc... Sure there is waste. No different than in Private industry. Except now you gotta throw in the profit margins. Gotta love big pharma charging thousands of dollars for a 12 dollar pill. That's privatization. Thats stealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Doctors use to give healthcare for a chicken dinner if thats all a settler had. Now they all have to be rich...
Well seeing we have two democrats pretending to be republicans in the Senate it doesn't look like any health care bill will get done. It's a damn shame because these premiums are killing me financially. It's amazing how the baby boomers just keep screwing are generation. I pay more then my parents for health insurance. It's just so messed up and wrong in so many ways. Hopefully their is a hell and all the lying politicians go there. God bless Trump a non politician
You know what's worse than getting killed financially? Literally dying because you can't afford to go to the doctor
That is a myth any hospital has to treat any patient with a life threatening condition. Plus I am a veteran, VA has to treat me. Insurance has tripled in price in 5 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
(Public) Hospitals have to treat emergency situations. If I'm bleeding out and manage to stumble into a hospital, they are required to get me into a stable condition and then they can send me back out.
This isn't the issue though. Not everyone that is in need of medical treatment is on death's door and just stumbling back into the hospital when you are about to die isn't a how people live healthy lives.
For instance, let's say Joe has undiagnosed diabetes. Joe has a minimum wage salary so most of the food Joe buys isn't the most healthy of choices. Since he can't afford a quality health insurance, Joe just assumes he's fine. Yea he's pissing a lot and his vision is a little blurry. No reason to run to the emergency room and spend money for a doctor to tell you that you're fine and you should get your eyes checked out. That on top of missing a day of work, which he can't afford to do.
And now before Joe passes out at work and is taken to the emergency room where they inform him that he's been living with undiagnosed diabetes and some of his organs have been damaged by not getting treatment earlier. So now, instead of going to the doctor when he had some strange symptoms Joe gets to...
1. Pay for diabetes medications/equipment (that he can't afford)
2. Pay for medication to help his damaged organs (which he can't afford), or possibly have to find a way to get a couple hundred thousand dollars together to pay for a transplant (which he definitely won't be able to do), and in that case pay for the lifetime of medications needed after the transplant (which he can't afford)
3. Pay for the Emergency room visit (because they do still bill you for their services)
So yea, by an unfortunate luck of the genetics draw and not having the benefits of a padded bank account, Joe is going to die and his remaining years are going to be filled with quite a bit of misery. All because you're not happy that your premiums are high.
But all this to get me to this point. You say people that don't die because they can't afford healthcare and in the same breath, you complain about healthcare costs, so why don't you just stop paying and then just go to the emergency room when you have a problem? Problem solved right?
Also, thanks for your service.
Oh they treat... But they still will attempt to get payment afterwards and it's drives the cost up for everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Not like the VA has a spotty track record of actually treating people...
You got your healthcare, screw the people you served to defend right?
Tells you something doesn't it. 8 years of *****ing and trying to tear down Obamacare and now that they are on the hook they got nothing... Can't even get their own party on board.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
It was 3 Republicans putting the people over the party. Thank god.
You talk about lying politicians going to hell and then god bless Trump who IS a lying politician... Crazy.
Yes but only if it's life threatening, and letting people suffering from serious illness go untreated until it becomes life threatening is tantamount to torture.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Oh so you're just a massive hypocrite then, you're against a single payer system healthcare system and yet you willingly benefits from one... So basically you admit that you have absolutely zero moral fiber! Or do you want to kill off the VA as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Which you don't have to give a **** about because you're already covered by a single payer healthcare system.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Because he doesn't care, he's already covered by a less than universal single payer healthcare system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
I never said I didn't like a single payer system. I just said it will never work in the USA due to various factors. VA still charges you for services unless they are service related injures. VA is a perfect example of how terrible the government is at healthcare though. Only people that go to the VA are extremely disabled, terminally ill or homeless people. Us vets with money and not disabled or sick avoid the VA like the plague. Plus nearest facility is a hour and half drive. But they can not turn me away but I will be charged for anything not service related.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elldallan
Yes our insurance went from 200 dollars with a 2500 deductible to 600 a month with a 5k deductible thanks to Obama care. That's 4800 dollars a year less going into savings or investment if I never even use it. You figure that out over a life time and you will see exactly why millinials are struggling. Oh also even after I reach that 5k deductible I still have a co pay thanks to Obama care.
Are we so special that we can not do what the rest of the western world can do? Sure we can. We just gotta have the will to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Actually you can thank republicans for that. They defunded obamacare and let states opt out which raised the costs of coverage. Just because you all call it Obamacare doesn't mean that republicans didn't have a hand in the final result. They most certainly did. 168 republican amendments to the ACA.
So. Is Spicer coming back? :o
1st. We are 20 trillion dollars in debtQuote:
Originally Posted by Swirvin'Birds
2nd. All medical employees would have to have wages cut, all medical practices would have to be taken over by the government, all pharmicotical companies would either have to be taken over or will be forced to go bankrupt.
3rd. Part is think of what that would do to our economy? All the lost tax revenue, the mass bankruptcy by people in the medical field.
4th. Incompetent government can not run a single payer system, let alone set one up.
5th. Doctor shortages would be massive due to doctors would leave the country to practice else where to keep making their millions.
Let's recap it would bankrupt the government, millions of health care workers and companies. Including any company involved with medical care. Shortage of trained professionals, long wait times and death panels. Then the effect on tax income, college cost and loss of innovation. Even if you figure all that out in the end the government is too incompetent to run such a system, let alone set it up.
It's a wonderful dream but let's face facts it will never happen.
Yes. Because we don't like to actually pay for **** we do by raising taxes. Instead we push it off on another generation.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Doctors is Canada average $340k a year and go up or down from there depending on their practice. Sorry WHAT? Lol. Yes, them dirt low salaries are a disgrace are they not? ****, I know doctors here in the US that are not worth that much.
It only bankrupts the government if we fail to pay for it. Over 1/2 our national budget goes into making war. We have the money, we just choose to waste it in other ways.
You still need people to do the work yet you act like they will all go bankrupt. Big pharma needs to take a hit. The current healthcare for profit has milked us dry and hooked us on the drugs they push while making a killing.
The long wait times and death pannels have been proven false scare tactics.
It will happen one day... Face the facts.
You do know government isn't always incompetent and the private sector always competent right?
This is untrue and unfounded.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Why are medical companies declaring bankruptcies worse than American tax payers having to declare bankruptcy because they got sick?Quote:
3rd. Part is think of what that would do to our economy? All the lost tax revenue, the mass bankruptcy by people in the medical field.
If people are doing a bad job, then fire them. There are plenty of government run organizations that run perfectly well.Quote:
4th. Incompetent government can not run a single payer system, let alone set one up.
This is just laughably false. Doctors in other countries with government provided health care still live very well. There will still be a private medical industry for doctors that want to rake in money from people who have money to throw around.Quote:
5th. Doctor shortages would be massive due to doctors would leave the country to practice else where to keep making their millions.
But even if your worst nightmare were true, and the US adopted some 100% public health care industry where doctors are living less than mediocre lives, they don't really have anywhere to go. The US has the strongest market in the world. It's not like you can just pack up, move to Mumbai (I'm not sure if India has universal healthcare but I don't think they do), open a small practice and be a millionaire. Most doctors in the US aren't millionaires. They typically have a middle class to upper middle class life style.
Per capita that's high but not exceptionally high.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Why? If doctors are earning millions then yes there would probably have to be a decrease of wages and I have absolutely no problem with that. But you're making it sound like it's going to force them into poverty which simply isn't the case. They will still be earning somewhere around high middle class wages as that seems to be the norm in other countries who have done the transition. And no, the government would not have to take over any medical practices, you just institute a government agency which pays a set price for each specific treatment, which is higher than the actual cost by some reasonable margin(so that private practices etc can have some profit margin). And no clinic/hospital whether private or public can charge patients more than that and they'll have to service everybody who comes to their clinic.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
The US already spends more per capita than any other county on the planet does. Yes pharmaceutical prices per dose/device are going to have to come down to similar levels as those of Europe, there is simply no reason why the US should spend more on a dose of medicine than the UK/France/Sweden etc does, if that puts companies at risk of bankruptcy then so be it, they're simply going to have to spread their costs even then.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Why would there need to be bankruptcy/unemployment in the medical field? Whatever government bureaucracy you put in place of insurance companies is going to need a similar amount of manpower because you're only moving the work around, not eliminating it. And if you loose taxes from insurance companies going away then you can just tax the population directly instead, it's much more costly to have a corporate winnings layer in between than it is to do away with the corporate layer, even if you see some increase of bureaucratic waste from whatever you replace the insurance companies with. You're just doing away with the insurance companies, not the entire medical sector.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Why not? Plenty of other countries have succeeded so there is plenty of experience there that the US could lean on.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
False, no other country on universal healthcare seems to have that problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Uhm no, there's no reason that it would. Case in point all the 50 or so other countries with universal healthcare.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Same thing with healthcare workers. Sure it would put insurance companies out of business but that's the general idea.
Uhm no there's no evidence of thatQuote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
No there's no reason that it would result in any shortage and it's a bloody lie that there would be any "death panels", that's just racist right scaremongering and it's completely baseless.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Yes it would result in longer wait times because it would result in people currently being denied care actually getting care. So between government sanctioned murder and longer wait times I would choose the longer wait times.
There's no reason that it would affect tax income as stated before.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Why would it affect college cost? you've raised no plausible case for that.
Why would there be any loss of innovation?
Again, there's plenty of evidence that this can be done, many countries have done it before and the US can use their experiences to implement a system.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
It's not a dream but as long as bribed and corrupt republicans refuse to put the welfare of their citizens above their greedy corporate puppetmasters it's unlikely to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
But at least there seems to be a few showing signs of having at least some morals and who are willing to look beyond party affiliation.
While I personally find AlladinLad a tedious f*cker to debate with, in this instance he is correct. Universal healthcare is cheaper and has better outcomes than a private system. ( Unless you have the big heap of money to utilise the top end of the private system)
Hmm, a bunch of people without any formal education in the matters of health, science, politics, economics, trending, polling, and a slew of other matters arguing with each other with uninformative data, opinions and pure dislike of the other party. I must have found the Utopia Strategy Page :P
Nobody cares