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Some ghetto nubs find it hard to believe that a lot of top kds thought xlogging was bottom of the barrel cheating, even though they knew all login info and could easily do it. They will never believe you, so don't bother. Especially ghetto nubs like Fates Warning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaer Hurlin
correlation is not causation, it only indicates relevance.
See what I mean... we have the log-in information for all our provinces and everyone has to just 'trust' a kingdom that was already cheating to begin with. Sorry, don't buy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
Ghetto maybe, played by the rules unlike you Dharan. nub? Don't think so. I was playing Falcons Eye when you were probably still in Diapers. lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
A comment made by Bishop in another thread is not proof, its just his own opinion (if you provided something else I did not see it in the thread). In reality the only real way to prove top KDs cheated would to be to take real time screen shots of conversations while it was occurring for every Top KD that existed. Otherwise there is no proof to the phrase: "All top KDs cheated"
Once you use or imply the use of "All" you must prove that every single KD in the "Top" cheated after you explain how you judge the word "Top"
So unless you had access to everyone's channels (or MSN conversations) and monitored them constantly and took screenies, then you in essence have no proof, just assumptions and inferences.
IRC transcripts are hardly proof since they can be doctored (in relation to those Hall transcripts).
The comment Bishop made was fact, not his opinion. Top kds ARE only sustainable through trading. If they had to waste time clearing out inactives/get rid of less actives, they would suffer big time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coke
Also, I haven't said "All top kds cheated". I said "Top kds cheated". A perfectly provable argument.
That is a argument (hence opinion) not fact, no matter how many caps you use. In addition nowadays trading is legal and with reduced player base trading may now be required. It in no way implies that trading was required to sustain a top KD in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
If your gonna go that route then that also means that there are Top KDs that didn't cheat. But even then, where is the proof?Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
You have zero proof they didn't cheat. None at all. This is exactly my argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fates Warning
Logically not, if trading were impossible you'd still have the same top kingdoms - trading made them easier to sustain but being able to trade would not make up for a fundamental lack of skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
You would not have the same top kds. You'd have the same leaders, but not the same kds. You may not even have the same leaders since some of them would have likely just gotten frustrated at having to put up with people who only give you 1 hit a day in war and just quit the game.
Either way, I'm done arguing over something that everyone already knows. You guys are asking for the impossible. Hell, none of you can definitively prove that you are actually people.
I find it quite sad that you guys can't just own up your past decisions, even with no possibility of punishment. I mean, wtf do you think it going to happen?
Considering there was a moratorium announced on past trading i don't think anyone really cares about "owning up". Its more to do with this perceived idea that top kds cheated left, right and center while mid kds are virtuously clean.Its real easy to make claims on the net, because they cant be backed up.
1. I've already said that mid-tear's cheated up and down, even worse than top kds.
2. I've already said my only beef with top kds were trading issues, which 90% of the community was ok with.
Either way, opinions are set. People are going to think what they want to think about the top, regardless of what anyone says.
yes, i agree with that
Wrong Bishop. If they didn't illegally trade back then you would not have had the same top kingdoms age after age and literally year after year . Province turnover was and still is a b*tch. They circumvented the turnover problem by illegal trades. A problem the rest of us had to deal with by either 'random' defectors or noobs while they traded in known skilled/hyperactive players. Sometimes from OUR kingdoms. Gave them a huge advantage over the kingdoms that played by the rules. If you don't understand that then you are just putting blinders on...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Fundamental lack of skill? They didn't recruit or trade in players with a fundamental lack of skill. Us ghettos had to deal with those provinces... not top kingdoms.
Sure there were many mid-tiered kingdoms or ghettos that tried to cheat as the top did... doesn't erase the fact that the top back then DID recruit, DID trade and DID collect accounts. They cheated.
Look I really don't care about whether or not Top KDs cheated w/e, I wasn't playing in the top back then so I really could care less. What does bother me is how you assume its a fact when it really is not. It is merely, at most, a consensus. There is a huge difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fates Warning
You guys are talking about trading? Bloody trading lol?
There was not a single top or even just good kd that i am aware of, who considered trading even remotely being as cheating or who didn't do it, so stop the BS, it's just ridiculous.
xlog, multing and farming was considered cheating, trading simply wasn't.
My first kingdom, a ghetto, traded and tried to x-log. My second kingdom, also a ghetto, did same. The third kingdom I played, ALSO a ghetto, was trading heavily. All Genesis kingdoms I played in traded. GUW and standoff, same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fates Warning
When I was not tired enough to be monarch, I was getting enough trading requests from ghettos to fill 2 kingdoms every age.
So cut the bull****, it was not about top or ghetto. EVERYBODY TRADED, if you didn't know, means you were too stupid to see the clues or too unstable to be trusted with such information. The fact that some monarchs CLAIM they didn't traded, means absolutely nothing as their pages, co-monarch, best-mates did the things for them, without their knowledge.
So your venomous spit upwards towards the top kingdoms falls back right on your head.