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It won't 'offset' the penalty, because it's still a multiplier.
An orc with 42.9% science will still have better TPA than a dwarf with 42.9% science.
That's what people need to understand.
You can't cancel the penalty, and no matter how much you add to your science, you'll still have less TPA than someone else, running the same science and raw as you.
I wasn't comparing it to an enemy tpa with equal numbers VT2. I was only pointing out that he was right that 1 raw tpa modded with 30% penalty and 42.9% bonus is 1 tpa. But yes of course running equal numbers the dwarf will always behind.
He meant 42.9% MORE science. Read his original question VT2, he did specify "more" than the other races.
Even better - if the dwarf could run a 20% larger bonus from TDs, he would only need 20% more crime science.
*Sorry, he would need 20% more crime science BONUS.
It only works at 42.9%, you can't just add 42.9% to existing sci to make your tpa mod offset the -30%.
Ex: Dwarf with 92.9% Thievery Sci vs Elf with 50% Thievery Sci (notice the Dwarf has 42.9% more) running 3 raw tpa and 0 TDs.
rawtpa*sci*race(dw) = mod tpa
Dw: 3*1.929*.7 = 4.05 mod tpa
Elf: 3*1.5 = 4.5 mod tpa
The 42.9% only works assuming exactly 42.9% sci on Dw and 0% sci on the opposing non-gnome race. In that case the mod tpa would be even for both provs. As enemy sci increases, the dwarf will have to increase his sci even more, since the -30% is multiplicative.
thanks guys, didn't realise it was such a big disadvantage, i better build some more watchtowers. lucky they work 30% better for dwarf
Dharan - 42.9% more is the multiplier of the bonus.
If the elf has 50% bonus, the Dwarf would need 1.5*1.429 = 2.1435, or 114.35% science bonus.
Dw: 3 * 2.1435 *.7 = 4.50135 mod TPA
Elf: 3 * 1.5 = 4.5 mod TPA
My edit was because simply having 20% more BPA wouldn't give you a 20% larger bonus, you would need 400% more BPA for a 20% bonus.
Ok I see what you are saying then, using it as a multiplier seems to be the right application, I just wanted to clarify to the other guy that you need to do more than just add an extra 42.9% sci :)
I'm glad this thread actually turned into a useful discussion lol. Someone page Cheech!
What if we factor in TDs? Will a combination of high raw tpa, some TDs, and more crime sci be able to offset the -30% penalty so much so it can still offer good defence against thievery ops? or is WTs the definite way to go? afterall, TDs will also be more effective with the BE bonus.
At least in the TD case, the DWs will still have sufficient mod tpa to perform intel thief ops, w/o failing most of the time and consuming loads of stealth. Erm, do you comprehen the point i'm making?
I posted earlier; if your TD bonus was 20% larger than your comparison, you would only need a 20% larger crime bonus. It's all multiplied together; wherever the bonuses come from, you need a total increase of 42.9% more bonuses than your comparison.
1.2 * 1.2 = 1.44
1.15 *1.25 = 1.4375
1.1 * 1.3 = 1.43
etc
It's easier to just run WTs with the 30% BE bonus