Best Kingdom ever?

What you been smoking, all those kds that you have mentioned has cheated in some way. Plus the ones you mentioned has never ever achieved anything worth mentioning. I dont think a single "romanian kingdom " has been mentioned but several other kds that havent been in abs. So, you're post in all in every aspect is useless.

Faith/Identity Crisis/dropbearz

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Originally Posted by WolfDGrey

Hahaha! That is hilarious. Of course you are saying that, by stamping the "cheater" tag on everybody who does not agree with you! And THAT, is dumb!

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Now your making **** up. I have not claimed everyone that doesn't agree with me is a cheater. Why do you feel you have to make **** up?

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Originally Posted by WolfDGrey

Look here in your own post:

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Yep I did. Nothing you claim to be there is there... I don't know what your smoking.

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Originally Posted by WolfDGrey

You talk about "cheaters" and "they claim" at present time and that brings them into present. That means you tag them "cheaters" in the present. That also means they are "still cheaters" and so the kingdoms they are in. Which by any ethical rule of debate is malevolent, derogatory and on top of that idiotic, because we all can see trough that weak political tactic of yours to gain advantage and a high horse.

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Here you go making **** up again. Throw in the fact that what you wrote above simply makes no sense at all. Looks like you are trying bend and twist things to save face because you made a stupid post.

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Originally Posted by WolfDGrey

Especially when you have no proof, just hearsay and gossip to back up your words, which again makes you the loser with no cause. That is why people do not agree with you and we consider you an unskilled envious egomaniac.

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Just Hearsay and gossip? LMFAO... Yea, 12 years of playing and all I have is hearsay and gossip. Try again guy. Your failing miserably in trying to attack me. If you did not know that stuff was going on in the top then you have no credibility to even post here on this subject.

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Originally Posted by WolfDGrey

Banned? Yes, I can say, I never been banned. Damn, there does one more of your flagship argument to feel better yourself by spitting on others.

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All I did was ask Morbid Angel the question in response to this that he wrote to me.

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But ofc, when someone lacks arguments he starts to yell. Keep yelling sir, keep yelling, I don't mind you being banned. :)

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I did not post that question to you. There you go taking my postings out of context.

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Originally Posted by WolfDGrey

Fates point is that top kingdoms were top, because they had an "unfair advantage" over the others by trading. Now everybody has the same advantages, yet same kingdoms are in top. So the real point is that, the advantages Fates claim some kingdoms had, mean absolutely nothing, their weight in the argument is zero, because everybody has same ground now and those who won in the past should loose now, since, according to Fates dumb argument, they won only because they had "unfair advantages", but Fates kingdom is so good that they would had won in a "fair" enviroment.

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Yep. That is my claim. Here is a very simple example that even you should be able to understand. Take 25 provinces scattered across the globe that all have different log-in times and different levels of access and activity. Now take 25 provinces that all live in the same time zone, all can log-in at the drop of a hat and all are highly dedicated to this game. Now tell me who wins a war between the 2. At this point it has nothing to do with skill. When skill comes into play is when you have nearly the same activity and dedication to the game in both kingdoms.

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Originally Posted by WolfDGrey

You can see with your own eyes that this is not the case and the kingdoms kept their places regardless of the "advantages lost".

That means 4 things:
1) Top kds were more skilled and dedicated in the past than the others.
2) Top kds are more skilled and dedicated now than the others.
3) Trading has no real effect in top placement, since regardless of trading top positions remained same.
4) Fates and his kingdom sucked in the past and sucks now too, even when nobody has "unfair advantages" over him.

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1) No. Top kingdoms illegally traded and recruited more skilled and dedicated players in the past.
2) I do not disagree with. Never claimed anything different. Again people making **** up.
3) No. It did and still does. How do you think all that skill and leadership got into those kingdoms in the 1st place. Some have even lost their hold on the top spots and have slipped a little now that everything that they had been doing in the past is LEGAL.
4) Again making **** up to attack me. I never have claimed my kingdom sucked or still sucks. I love my kingdom of the last 6 years. It's you and your buddies that have stated that I suck over and over and over again. Not me.

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Originally Posted by Korp

I guess to the rest of us its quite obvious, even with all those years in the same kd you never achieved anything worth mentioning.

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Okay... my point is proven. You can't find anything to point to on 'why I suck' other than I have never posted any achievement worth mentioning. And that in itself is a silly statement. What one player or one kingdom sees as a achievement is not the same as what another player or kingdom will see as an achievement. What is considered an achievement depends on the level of dedication you have to the game. I've always said that I am a 'casual' player. So while charting in the top 30 kingdoms might be an achievement to me or you, to a top 10 kingdom it is not.

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Originally Posted by Korp

Talking about simpletons, you been yelling "cheater cheater cheater" but whenever someone asked you to provide some proof you have failed to deliver any kind of proof.

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Yet when I am asked to name kingdoms and the 1st one I list is Brute Force and ask if I should continue I am responded to with silence. lol.

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Originally Posted by Korp

So do you, he never claimed you said that either.

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No I don't. And yes he did.

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Originally Posted by Korp

You are truly retarded or you cant read, cause nobody in here has ever denied that they were cheating. They question your ability to judge them cause you have no proof, you just assume cause they were in top they must cheat cause that how it must be!!

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So just because you don't anything about me you attack my postings and try to drag me through the mud even when what I am posting is correct. Nice. And how many people have you attacked in this thread about their assumptions about me with no proof? Answer=0

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Originally Posted by Luc

Point out what truth? All you've done is spew out your tunnel vision garbage about how the great kd's were only great because they cheated. It's quite obvious that few other people agree with you, because they know that the kind of cheating (trading) that these kd's were actually doing wasn't what made them great. They were great because of their skill and dedication. Trading was merely a way of speeding up the process of getting the right players into the kd, something that would've been possible to do without cheating at all, although it would've taken more time. Cheating is not what made them great, and you've failed utterly at showing anything resembling the opposite. People who keep reiterating the same crap without having anything to add to the discussion are the real simpletons (read: you). You're talking about stuff you have no clue about.

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Disagree totally. They illegally traded in the skill and dedicated players. And back before OMAC took over there is no way on this gods green earth that they EVER all would have randomed into the same kingdom. And I do know what I am talking about. Your just assuming since you don't know me that I don't. Get over it.

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Originally Posted by Luc

There has been a culture of cheating acceptance in the way that trading used to be socially acceptable.

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Thank you. And now you can STFU with the attacks on me for saying exactly that. Damn.

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Originally Posted by Luc

It has been legal for ages now, and most of your posts are from after the trading system was introduced. Basically you're whining about cheating because you're compensating for your own lack of success. You desperately want someone or something else to blame, because you can't accept that the problem is you. There is no reason at all for you to not be in a top kd today if you're so good. No one has to cheat to win with the current rules. You don't have to trade illegally, you don't have to use resource or intel farms, you don't have to xlog. You don't even need to fake war if you don't want to. I know this for a fact, because I've actually been up there on the charts without breaking a single rule.

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Actually you are wrong again. I simply post exactly what you posted in the last quote you made before this one and then I spend 100 postings defending myself from personal attacks for posting what you yourself just posted. lol

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Originally Posted by Luc

I.e. you can't blame cheating for your lack of success, but you still are. That makes you pathetic, and that's what's sad in this thread. Sure, there are still cheaters in the game, I'm not denying that. The point is that they're not better than anyone else. Cheating is a not a requirement, and is actually a lot more risky today than it ever was in the past.

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Once again I have never blamed 'my lack of success' on cheating. As a matter of fact the only people who are using the words 'lack of success' are you and the others that are trying to attack my statements. And I agree with the rest of that quote in the present tense.

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Originally Posted by Luc

Oh, and btw, I've never been banned, ever. Never got deleted a single time in over 10 years of playing.

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And again that question was not directed towards you. It was directed @ Morbid Angel and his post about me and getting banned. Why do you feel you need to answer a question directed at him?

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Just Hearsay and gossip? LMFAO... Yea, 12 years of playing and all I have is hearsay and gossip. Try again guy. Your failing miserably in trying to attack me. If you did not know that stuff was going on in the top then you have no credibility to even post here on this subject.

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Just cause you played a game long dont mean you know what goes on.. He has probably more credibility in here than you will ever get.

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Okay... my point is proven. You can't find anything to point to on 'why I suck' other than I have never posted any achievement worth mentioning.

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You have none to post, thats why just admit it that you are a crappy player.

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What is considered an achievement depends on the level of dedication you have to the game. I've always said that I am a 'casual' player. So while charting in the top 30 kingdoms might be an achievement to me or you, to a top 10 kingdom it is not.

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Anything worth mentioning is something that the is considered good is decided by the charts. Its not a individual thing its quite clear on whats good and whats not.

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Yet when I am asked to name kingdoms and the 1st one I list is Brute Force and ask if I should continue I am responded to with silence. lol.

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No i responded, I said any tool can name a kd but that isnt proof, you do know what proof is? Let me tell you, it doesnt just involve in naming a kd out of the blue it consist of much more than that.

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So just because you don't anything about me you attack my postings and try to drag me through the mud even when what I am posting is correct. Nice. And how many people have you attacked in this thread about their assumptions about me with no proof? Answer=0

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Its fairly obvious that you dont know how to read by now since it took me to sit down and explain to you how it is even if its out there in plain text. This whole discussion was about people having/not having proof about people cheating, yet you dont have provided anything that can be considered as proof to which kds cheated and which didnt. The only thing (and now I have to repeat myself) you've done is saying cause they are in the top. Well, that you're a crappy player is no assumption, since if you werent you would be able to provide something did prove that you werent for one thing. That the kd you played in cheated you already admitted yourself while denying it at the same time ofc.

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And I do know what I am talking about. Your just assuming since you don't know me that I don't. Get over it.

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No you dont know, all you done is running around screaming cheater yet havent dived into any deeper discussion about it all. You're like a pesant that was told witches exist, then there is that weird old lady that lives down by the road instead of thinking about it you grab your pitchfork and go around yelling witch witch etc.

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I spend 100 postings defending myself from personal attacks for posting what you yourself just posted.

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Criticising your skils in the game isnt personal attacks otherwise the moderators would have already intervened in here. Or you could have reported us then we would get banned! .. Which you havent and you know its pointless.

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Once again I have never blamed 'my lack of success' on cheating.

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Ofc you have, they cheated, unfair advantage, us honest players dont have a chance bla bla bla.

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Originally Posted by Fates Warning

Disagree totally. They illegally traded in the skill and dedicated players. And back before OMAC took over there is no way on this gods green earth that they EVER all would have randomed into the same kingdom. And I do know what I am talking about. Your just assuming since you don't know me that I don't. Get over it.

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1. It's not about having those exact players. It never was. A majority in every kd are replacable. You only need a few players to random in together, and that's far from impossible, especially if they keep trying. Good players gravitate toward good kd's even without trading. The poor players are quickly killed, and the others are motivated by the good leadership to stay. Being able to motivate players is the single most important thing, and one of the main reasons behind the success of any kd. Some of the great kd's have taken players that weren't planning on being more than casual players, and made them dedicated. That's a skill 99.5% of the kd's in the game do not possess.
2. No, I don't believe you know what you're talking about. Everything you've said in this forum points toward that you've never actually experienced any of what you're talking about first hand.

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Thank you. And now you can STFU with the attacks on me for saying exactly that. Damn.

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Nice job at taking that out of context. In no way did I support anything you've said. Trading was the only socially acceptable type of cheating, and your trading-is-the-reason-they-were-good argument is what everyone's questioning. It's also old news, because trading has been legal for quite a while now. It was a silly rule from the get go, which is why people never felt bad breaking it.

We're attacking you for 2 reasons:
1. We don't agree that trading is the means to all ends. We believe kd's were great not because of trading, but because of superior skill.
2. We don't think you know what you're talking about, because it seems rather clear that you're relying on second hand information. You can't prove that any single kd actually did cheat, so you have to rely on sweeping generalizations, which are not valid arguments.

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Actually you are wrong again. I simply post exactly what you posted in the last quote you made before this one and then I spend 100 postings defending myself from personal attacks for posting what you yourself just posted. lol

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See above. You're not being attacked because you said trading was socially acceptable like I did.

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Once again I have never blamed 'my lack of success' on cheating. As a matter of fact the only people who are using the words 'lack of success' are you and the others that are trying to attack my statements. And I agree with the rest of that quote in the present tense.

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When someone lacking first hand experience comes and attacks with such bitterness as you do, it's a fair assumption that such a person is driven by jealousy. I've seen no reason to reconsider, in your case.

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And again that question was not directed towards you. It was directed @ Morbid Angel and his post about me and getting banned. Why do you feel you need to answer a question directed at him?

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Simply a precaution, since you seem to enjoy logical fallacies.


Also, in an earlier post you showed more of your ignorance. Did you really think all successful kd's have players from only a single timezone? Then you need to think again, because that's ridiculous. Also, there are lots of players in this game who are capable of logging in at the drop of a hat. They just need to be motivated to. With great leadership and time spent on building a kd, you would be able to compete without trading. Most people would never spend that kinda time though, because the anti-trading rules were stupid.

As far as the top kd's in the game today, none of them deserve being called great. There is not a single great kd left in the game today. The ones up at the top do not have the same players they used to have, and their leaders aren't nearly as dedicated as they used to be.

This whole "success is subjective" bull**** is just that: bull****. We're talking about the greatest kd's ever, which means we have to at least try to be objective and find something measurable to judge kd's by. That you like playing in your kd has nothing to do with success. There's simply no way for you to show that other people aren't have even more fun than you are. The only thing we can do is consider chart placements, and speculate about warring capabilities. Subjective success means nothing to anyone but yourself, and has no place in this thread.

An interesting thought: if trading had been legal from the start, what would Fair Warning be screaming about in the forum today?

Stop lying.
Without the systematic, almost industrialized trading, the 'top' would never have managed to remain the top.

And your proof for that statment is?

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Without the systematic, almost industrialized trading, the 'top' would never have managed to remain the top.

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Stop lying, the dedicated and skilled players would still be on top, which is what the top was. No bloody ghetto would suddenly end on top cause of that.

Absalom.
Always on top, unless they decide someone else can be.

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Absalom. Always on top, unless they decide someone else can be.

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Lies, next try?

sooo did we findout which kingdom was the best or do we need more mud slinging?

we still haven't clarified under what circumstances are we allowed to suggest a kingdom. So far it seems any top charting kingdom is invalid.

I nominate whatever ghetto Fates Warning played in! They never cheated, always played by the rules! They never ranked high in the charts but the morale intergrity is admirable!!

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Originally Posted by Korp

I nominate whatever ghetto Fates Warning played in! They never cheated, always played by the rules! They never ranked high in the charts but the morale intergrity is admirable!!

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Morale integrity exlcudes envy, malevolent manipulation and lies, so after Fates' actions here, they can't qualify on "morale integrity" basis.

...so can my kd be the best ever?

ZZ is the best kd ever. noobs

Copycats.
Only someone lacking morals completely could successfully become buddies with the corrupt moderation and developers, pushing them into positions where they make cheating fully legal.

That, or the viahul's fail roro party. You know, 11 people playing 25, and it being 'legal,' because they threw all their money at OMAC.

I burned someone so hard, it smells like crispy, torched roro cat in here.

Nice job taking unprovoked swings at people VT2. Showing some class there.

I'm awesome.
I know.

It seems I forgot to mention you really have to be the king of the world to silently disappear back into the shadows once it becomes obvious to everybody that you were one of the biggest cheaters ever, and that what you pushed for pretty much destroyed the game.
Isn't it nice how zero of the people who crusaded for this are now around?

Man, someone give me a medal for remembering all the bad stuff you people do.

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Originally Posted by VT2

It seems I forgot to mention you really have to be the king of the world to silently disappear back into the shadows once it becomes obvious to everybody that you were one of the biggest cheaters ever, and that what you pushed for pretty much destroyed the game.
Isn't it nice how zero of the people who crusaded for this are now around?

Man, someone give me a medal for remembering all the bad stuff you people do.

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You didn't changed. Still liar, still manipulator, still populistic provocator, still an idiot.

Yo ZZ. I'm really happy for you. I'mma let you finish but Porn Jedi's was the best kingdom of all time (noone beats a 7/7 war record)

Wolf is just jealous, because I won the thread with one post.

Its pretty lame trying to declare yourself a winner. Bit of too much ego there.

You mean I'm doing the exact same thing I've been doing since the game was made!?
My god! That's totally out of the ordinary.

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Originally Posted by 0beron

Yo ZZ. I'm really happy for you. I'mma let you finish but Porn Jedi's was the best kingdom of all time (noone beats a 7/7 war record)

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ZZ was mentioned?

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Originally Posted by VT2

My god! That's totally out of the ordinary.

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Right into bore-dinary.

/me yawns at VTnub's newest attempts...

i saw VT2 for president!

Is this still going on? I thought we all agreed that my kd(s) were the best to have ever graced Utopia.

No, you asked Palem and nobody responded to your question so Fates Warning's kd is still the best!

Sadface

imo sleepy is the best kd :) btw i see what u sayin bishop u can't prove ****, really every kd who is good gets accused of cheating, everytime a kd will rape another the rapist gets accused of x-logging or w.e lol and nobody even sometimes the players in that kingdom know if they are cheating or to what extent lol It is possible Palem that u have played in a cheating kd, that half ur players were multis, u dont know that for sure lol. So i guess unless ppl have solid proof that a kd is cheating or that their kd is so saintly than they should stfu :) ppl love to ***** in jolt, its jokes. E-penis competition ftfw !

p.s mine is bigger than yours. *puts on her hard hat and hides behind her shield*

roros cant be good at anything so that excludes Sleepy! ..

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Originally Posted by moya

It is possible Palem that u have played in a cheating kd, that half ur players were multis, u dont know that for sure lol.

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I never denied that it's possible my kd was cheating. I'm the reasonable one. You're thinking of Fates.

p.s. Let's be friends =]

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Originally Posted by VT2

I'm awesome.
I know.

It seems I forgot to mention you really have to be the king of the world to silently disappear back into the shadows once it becomes obvious to everybody that you were one of the biggest cheaters ever, and that what you pushed for pretty much destroyed the game.
Isn't it nice how zero of the people who crusaded for this are now around?

Man, someone give me a medal for remembering all the bad stuff you people do.

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Eh. I rationalize you're trolling, which is whatever. That's your business to do, if it makes you happy -- then all the power to you. But my issue is an unprovoked swing at him when there was no mention or indication of him, and given his absence I see it as a personal strike against him rather than a common troll attempt. Which I will say is pretty low on your part.

Secondly, anyone that knows me knows full and well I may be nice but I'm blunt as ****, and I've called out Hans on a number of things. But one thing he is not is a cheater to the extent you said. He traded illegally, just like a large portion of the population. In addition if I remember right they had a munk account prior to my entry, but it was for managerial purposes and nothing ill in aiding to things like cross logging.

There were members in the past and right up until the end, including me, who had the programmatic knowledge to develop or manage something -- but that knowledge wasn't used.

And should I be wrong in some form, I can sincerely tell you that the last ages of Copy Cats was entirely cheat free. I spoke up even if people tried to glorify it remotely, in addition to when trades were tight the suggestion to illegally trade here and there -- you can damn well take my word for it I spoke up even to the mention. I had to make a sacrifice at some point, once -- but that wasn't even in regards to Copy Cats -- and it's part of the reason I quit this game considering how saddened I was at the positions people are forced into just to compete -- especially given the discussions of going significantly further with it, outside of me needing to place my focus elsewhere.

So I'd appreciate if you quit badmouthing Catwalk, because regardless of your personal opinion of him and while I concur that the entire trading system was a ****ty idea to begin with and I will concur from a personal perspective it is part of what destroyed the game (And it's only an opinion) -- he's put in and done more for the game and the people in the game than you can even contemplate and no one can try and take that position away from him.

Regardless of people's opinions of you, I do like you VT2 -- but at the same time, some of troll attempts are seriously uncalled for given their blatant ignorance and personality. Had Catwalk been around still and you guys were still fencing back and forth, then it is what it is -- but the attack was unprovoked and uncalled for. Sucker punches are for the weak.

Furthermore, the single greatest deterioration to the game has nothing to do with the pushes to legalize trading. It's the general elitism that the game follows at this present point, there is little to no community to fall into without having to search. Before, you could jump right into things, now you can't because if you're not following the herd -- you're just killed off.

It's both the community and the functionality/management of the game that is hurting, not one or the other. So don't sit there and be the pot calling the kettle black. I nor anyone should be stressed out by a game, not so much in the fact of getting up in the middle of the night to make a hit -- I actually enjoy that to an extent, or even getting up every hour on the hour to manage a war and make sure everyone is keeping pace (or NW whoring). What I have a problem with is the social aspect at this point. No one can talk without being flamed really, and that's sad. It's why the majority of the community is on IRC now, closed off from everything else. Furthermore, pretty much everyone is pressured into that type of dedication of the game. This game should NOT be a second job.

Who wants to bother here when all they get is ****? It seems to be getting better now than it was before, but I still see it. And the fact that it's quantifiable a much larger proportion of posts compared to the past in regards to the population sizes, it's worse to see it now. Back then, even if it happened the same amount or even more -- you could get over it because there were hundreds of posts that were rational in that same time frame to make you forget about that 1 asshat.

Furthermore, from what I've read -- the functionality is getting pretty stable and they are making some attempts to continue forward movement of the game, even if the resources are presently light.

I don't check in much though, but that's what I've gathered in the time I've checked in to see how everyone is.

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but at the same time, some of troll attempts are seriously uncalled for given their blatant ignorance and personality.

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All troll attempts are uncalled for, you just getting played so freaking hard atm. The wisest course of action here would be ignoring him. Instead you go feeding and not just a bit, a ****load of text so he can laugh at you.