Pew Pew vs Debauchery aka Strippers aka Mystical Maybe

"deal broke"
Show me the logs where Debauchery said "Yes we will definitely war at x-time" (btw this doesn't include talks about "wanting to war" I want concrete logs for you to accuse Debauch of dealbreaking).
While you're there, show me the logs where I told you BB and AMA would GB you at my request. Thanks for starting rumours that never happened. Logged onto #tactics only to have Prot freaked out that apparently I asked them to GB you and that is supposedly happening. I have the logs of our conversation with you where I tried to be reasonable and offer you other solutions and you basically told me where to stick it each time. Terrible terrible diplomacy, even worse justification of your actions.

Silva stated after me telling that if you don't give SWEA Button pewpew will not see it as hostile and will wave. Only way to dodge pewpew. Then I offered CF and he said No, we WILL war you! I said ok, but if you don't give me button and pew wave you and you decide to war them and wasted my time i will wave you in war. he said relax we will war you. End of discussion.

As me and Cody said last night in pm where I was trying to find a way to not raze war 4:15 that we won't think about the situation the same way. So instead of going round and round I will just try to enjoy Rhamadan and pray for World peace!

By the way, most of this was whatsapp, so silva can show you whatsapp logs i am sure. I for one am not sending my whatsapp log where we decided our master plans for future...guess they are scrapped now =p

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Originally Posted by Mansoor

Silva stated after me telling that if you don't give SWEA Button pewpew will not see it as hostile and will wave. Only way to dodge pewpew. Then I offered CF and he said No, we WILL war you! I said ok, but if you don't give me button and pew wave you and you decide to war them and wasted my time i will wave you in war. he said relax we will war you. End of discussion.

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All i read here is excuses, you doubled strippers and took away acres that pewpew could have possibly taken. You have ****played friends. No excuses.

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Originally Posted by Spice

All i read here is excuses, you doubled strippers and took away acres that pewpew could have possibly taken. You have ****played friends. No excuses.

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Its all on Debauchery, if they didnt want a conflict with SWEA they were free to CF SWEA and the issue wouldnt be a issue anymore. Apparently they decided against it under the pretense that Debauchery was going to war SWEA.

But lets all remember who is the most foul kd here which is Debauchery, they dealbreak which is apparent from this age with the Rage, they cheat to get warwins which we could see last age how that ended.

Doesnt take away the fact that SWEA did t have the balls to wave into fortified. Pewpew did, they got their war and then SWEA sees easy acres and hits into war, SWEA basically took 10-15k acres and a fair 1v1 war from pewpew. SWEA has sunk low in my opinion. Strippers was allready "punished" by abs for breaking a deal. No need to hold grudges.

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Originally Posted by Spice

Doesnt take away the fact that SWEA did t have the balls to wave into fortified. Pewpew did, they got their war and then SWEA sees easy acres and hits into war, SWEA basically took 10-15k acres and a fair 1v1 war from pewpew. SWEA has sunk low in my opinion. Strippers was allready "punished" by abs for breaking a deal. No need to hold grudges.

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What I see here is that Debauchery didnt have the balls to commit to their promises and instead of doing as they promised they ran away to war with Pewpew instead. So they got what they deserved, but I guess since you are cheering for Debauchery you dont care if people dealbreak, cheat or otherwise play dirty.

Good to see low-life kingdoms getting what they deserve. Debauchery doesn't respect anyone for anything, why should a single kingdom ever respect them? I don't consider any questionable actions under regular circumstances to be shady at all when done to Debauchery. They've proved they are willing to ignore ehtics and do what they want, so they've earned the same treatment. As far as I'm concerned, Debauchery is fair game under any and all circumstances. The only people with a grievance here is Pew Pew for the loss of acres.

Strippers had the INTENTION to war SWEA, not promised a war. All logs give proof of this. SWEA pulled a low move on pewpew and strippers, it sounds simple anf it is simple as it is.

Ride bene chi ride l'ultimo

Raze =/= TM

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Originally Posted by Palem

I believe havoc deserves to get hits through their next war because of what happened with AMA last age.

Anyone seeing the problem yet?

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No, i agree with this post. Besides not winning the crown last age they weren't really punished for the double last age

Didn't read all but could this be summarised as:

- Strippers want to war Rage after they could 48h notice them, assumed they'd get war.
- Rage say "we might be in war which we can't stop".
- Strippers dealbreak and hit Rage.
- Time passes.
- SWEA wants war with Strippers, tell them if they waste their time pumping they'll hit regardless.
- Strippers refuse SWEA CF.
- Strippers war Pew Pew.
- SWEA does exactly what they said they would for time wasting.
- Pew Pew get dicked over for no reason.
- Strippers have some veiled whines.

Exactely as you state silverfox, SWEA dicked over pew

Good summary silverfox.

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Originally Posted by DHaran

The only people with a grievance here is Pew Pew for the loss of acres.

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Not sure i agree here, pewpew got warned so its not like it was a surprise. By waring now and having strippers be "angry" at swea, pewpew ensures they wont have to deal with strippers dealbreaking them later in the age as a swea/strippers fight will knock strippers out of the top. In addition pewpew got basically a free war win, acres on their banks, science, credits, and ww bonus acres. Every attacker under 3k acres can easily get back up so you end up at 110+6k acres+pool growth. Puts them #2. Its a nice little jump and they have no target they need to fight so they get to sit and pump science for a week+. Seems like win all around.

All that is true, I just simply meant I can understand PewPew being annoyed that a friendly kingdom stepped into the war uninvited.

sneaky silswedes ruining my warar :/

Grats on the win, Binar & co!

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Originally Posted by Persain

Not sure i agree here, pewpew got warned so its not like it was a surprise. By waring now and having strippers be "angry" at swea, pewpew ensures they wont have to deal with strippers dealbreaking them later in the age as a swea/strippers fight will knock strippers out of the top. In addition pewpew got basically a free war win, acres on their banks, science, credits, and ww bonus acres. Every attacker under 3k acres can easily get back up so you end up at 110+6k acres+pool growth. Puts them #2. Its a nice little jump and they have no target they need to fight so they get to sit and pump science for a week+. Seems like win all around.

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Nobody is "ensured" that Debauchery won't dealbreak them.

Suggestion: since raze attacks from outside ignore war protection, then why don't the devs just up the hitting into war penalty to like 95% or something?

Then this sort of active/constant hitting into wars would be impractical and a waste of time, but people would still be able to raze into war to hand out community punishment if it was deserved?

So if we look at two examples from this age:
1) SWEA's gains would be so bad that TMing into Pew's war would be more trouble than it was worth
2) People could still effectively raze Debauchery for dealbreaking if they felt it was deserved

Just spitballing here. What are the problems with this idea?

Moving on,

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Originally Posted by Farore

I kind of love you now, tetley, for making a logical, well-defended case without insults. + 1 for you ^.^

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<3
To respond to the rest of your post... if people think what SWEA did was messed up, then they will act. But I think it would be because they messed up Pew, not cause they hurt Debauch - because the bar is lowered on how Debauch deserves to be treated imo.

In regards to something Palem said: yeah I think there is some point after which people can no longer be punished for a past event... EoA seems appropriate. If people were hitting into Debauchery's wars NEXT age because they dealbroke this age, well that would probably be problematic, but until then... what goes around comes around.

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Originally Posted by tetley

but until then... what goes around comes around.

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Very true.

Also just to clear some thing up, there was no dealbreak with SWEA. Yes, we expressed our interest in warring SWEA. Told both SWEA and Pew about our preference (if there are logs of Silva or myself "promising" a war to SWEA, I'd like to see them now). But all three kds also knew that the first kd to wave us would be the one who gets to war us. We expected it to be SWEA, being much bigger and us already sharing some hostile words. Turns out Pew wakes up just a little bit earlier in the morning than SWEA, and they got to us first. Whether SWEA had 'dibs' or not is irrelevant, Pew started a hostile with us first.

Despite this we still offered SWEA the chance to give us button and we would promptly declare (SWEA 18.5m, us 15.5m). 4 hours passed between when Pew waved and when it was time to declare. SWEA was told we would war whoever had given button (only Pew at this point in time). So we did just that. SWEA was smart to wave us when they did, knowing full well that we wouldnt have any support from the community. I am not seeking sympathy from anyone because we were wronged - rather I feel like nobody should allow SWEA to profit off any kingdom in such a way. But there's still a lot of age left, and I'm sure things will get shaken up once again.

And I'm hearing word that some other kds are going to be paying us a visit soon. Always looking forward to a challenge :)

Here are some war formats including the hostile+war

** The kingdom of Mystical **
Total land exchanged: -16,890 (245/314)

** The kingdom of Pew **
Total land exchanged: +2,041 (239/245)

** The kingdom of SWEA **
Total land exchanged: +14,849 (75/0)

Swea stealing pewpew's acres. Pewpew had to hit down instead of same size. Gg swea for hurting friends

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Originally Posted by tetley

In regards to something Palem said: yeah I think there is some point after which people can no longer be punished for a past event... EoA seems appropriate. If people were hitting into Debauchery's wars NEXT age because they dealbroke this age, well that would probably be problematic, but until then... what goes around comes around.

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Typically, it's one full cycle. A kingdom does wrong, a kingdom gets wronged. The problem here is that debauchery has done wrong after wrong. They are not grasping the concept of punishment likely because punishment has not been harsh enough. So until they stop acting a fool or enough wrong has been done back to them, people will continue to look the other way. Debauchery has not met their full cycle yet. Their history has only just begun.

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Originally Posted by SillyRabbit

Very true.

Also just to clear some thing up, there was no dealbreak with SWEA. Yes, we expressed our interest in warring SWEA. Told both SWEA and Pew about our preference (if there are logs of Silva or myself "promising" a war to SWEA, I'd like to see them now). But all three kds also knew that the first kd to wave us would be the one who gets to war us. We expected it to be SWEA, being much bigger and us already sharing some hostile words. Turns out Pew wakes up just a little bit earlier in the morning than SWEA, and they got to us first. Whether SWEA had 'dibs' or not is irrelevant, Pew started a hostile with us first.

Despite this we still offered SWEA the chance to give us button and we would promptly declare (SWEA 18.5m, us 15.5m). 4 hours passed between when Pew waved and when it was time to declare. SWEA was told we would war whoever had given button (only Pew at this point in time). So we did just that. SWEA was smart to wave us when they did, knowing full well that we wouldnt have any support from the community. I am not seeking sympathy from anyone because we were wronged - rather I feel like nobody should allow SWEA to profit off any kingdom in such a way. But there's still a lot of age left, and I'm sure things will get shaken up once again.

And I'm hearing word that some other kds are going to be paying us a visit soon. Always looking forward to a challenge :)

Here are some war formats including the hostile+war

** The kingdom of Mystical **
Total land exchanged: -16,890 (245/314)

** The kingdom of Pew **
Total land exchanged: +2,041 (239/245)

** The kingdom of SWEA **
Total land exchanged: +14,849 (75/0)

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While the hypocrisy might be the matched, I am sorry to say that all I see here is a poor version of Proteus; remind me again, aren't you the KD that recently broke a CF with rage because Drixx said he might get waved by another kingdom? Maybe you need to revisit that thread.

That said, you know full well what ultimately caused us to take this line of action - and no, while helpful and/or contributing factors, it wasn't your actions versus Rage, not even the fact that you went back on your (read: Silva's) word to war us, that you forced us to pump, or that you refused our attempts at negotiating a CF. If you truly do not know, I suggest you read my earlier post. If that doesn't do it, I am sure Silva can explain it to you. Based on your posts, however, I guess you two don't really talk. Maybe something to work on for next age?


Respectfully,

Justin Sane
SWEA.

If you were razing it would be one thing. Instead you are TM'ing. The only point of TM is to gain land, in this case land generated first from a dealbreak and then softened up by your ally in war.

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Originally Posted by JustinSane

not even the fact that you went back on your (read: Silva's) word to war us, that you forced us to pump, or that you refused our attempts at negotiating a CF.

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Like I said in my post just before this one, I urge you to present any evidence of Silva giving you his word (read: a 'promise', or a 'deal') that we will war you. As I said earlier, we expressed our intentions to war. This is not a deal, and we shouldn't be arguing this point.

Mansoor offered us an extended CF to YR8 during day 1 of our EoWcf with HoH. When we were 76k acres (before HoH) you guys acted all tough demanding acres from us. When we were 96k acres after HoH war, your monarch asked us for a longer CF. Why would we care to agree to a CF with a kd who tries to act tough when they are 38% larger, but gets scared when they are only 10% larger. At this point, it was our intention to war you. But I will repeat, we never promised/agreed to war you. This is not like the CF deal in place with Rage, where we gave the CF initially under the pretenses of war (although Im not looking to start this debate again).

On OOW hour when Pew had waved, we approached SWEA for a cf. It was denied, so don't go claiming that we refused any attempts at negotiating a cf. Utopia is a dynamic game, and though we had wanted to war you guys, Pew hostiled us first. So THINGS CHANGE! Multiple kingdoms' plans can change due to the actions of another kd! The 3 of our kds knew the score - the first kd to start relations will war us. Why your kd was too scared (at 18.5m while we 15.7m) to actually land a few hits is beyond anyone! If you actually "wasted" 2 weeks to pump and prepare to war us, then why so hesitant to wave us? You held many advantages over us at that point, and many players have agreed that you should have waved us. At the very least, you should have pulled out of fortified stance. You name one kingdom here that would wave the #1 kd, 20% larger, in forty stance and I'll shake your hand. We were 65k acres before rage, 75k before HoH, and 96k after HoH. Do you really think we had the sciences/wizards/resources to compare?

Just because you said "if you war Pew and not us, we will wave into your war" before we actually declared on Pew, does not justify the actions. You had a chance to war us but were too inadequate. Instead you ****played us and probably gained more acres out of it this way. For this, I tip my hat to you sir.

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Originally Posted by JustinSane

While I understand that there will necessarily be bad blood, I am therefore announcing publicly that I am willing to resign my position in SWEA and abandon my province should that help you ever becoming friends again once this is over and done with - whenever that may be.

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It took me a while to get through that block of text you posted a few pages back. After reading it, I was so bored I decided not to bother quoting and responding to the mistruths, plus it would just be childish to continue with this he said-she said nonsense. But you made a pretty bold statement there, I'd be interested to hear how far you would go just to mend a relationship between two virtual groups, and I'd also like to know why?

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Originally Posted by UnknownGhost

Nobody is "ensured" that Debauchery won't dealbreak them.

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you're telling me that no other current kingdom has ever dealbroke?

if not, then no deal is ever "ensured" for those kingdoms too.

I dealbroke once, got waved into war - hawnt dealbroken since.

All I take out of this is SWEA doubled a kingdom in an active hostile and took a supposed allies acres from them.

SWEA - Nuff said

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Originally Posted by SillyRabbit

Like I said in my post just before this one, I urge you to present any evidence of Silva giving you his word (read: a 'promise', or a 'deal') that we will war you. As I said earlier, we expressed our intentions to war. This is not a deal, and we shouldn't be arguing this point.

Mansoor offered us an extended CF to YR8 during day 1 of our EoWcf with HoH. When we were 76k acres (before HoH) you guys acted all tough demanding acres from us. When we were 96k acres after HoH war, your monarch asked us for a longer CF. Why would we care to agree to a CF with a kd who tries to act tough when they are 38% larger, but gets scared when they are only 10% larger. At this point, it was our intention to war you. But I will repeat, we never promised/agreed to war you. This is not like the CF deal in place with Rage, where we gave the CF initially under the pretenses of war (although Im not looking to start this debate again).

On OOW hour when Pew had waved, we approached SWEA for a cf. It was denied, so don't go claiming that we refused any attempts at negotiating a cf. Utopia is a dynamic game, and though we had wanted to war you guys, Pew hostiled us first. So THINGS CHANGE! Multiple kingdoms' plans can change due to the actions of another kd! The 3 of our kds knew the score - the first kd to start relations will war us. Why your kd was too scared (at 18.5m while we 15.7m) to actually land a few hits is beyond anyone! If you actually "wasted" 2 weeks to pump and prepare to war us, then why so hesitant to wave us? You held many advantages over us at that point, and many players have agreed that you should have waved us. At the very least, you should have pulled out of fortified stance. You name one kingdom here that would wave the #1 kd, 20% larger, in forty stance and I'll shake your hand. We were 65k acres before rage, 75k before HoH, and 96k after HoH. Do you really think we had the sciences/wizards/resources to compare?

Just because you said "if you war Pew and not us, we will wave into your war" before we actually declared on Pew, does not justify the actions. You had a chance to war us but were too inadequate. Instead you ****played us and probably gained more acres out of it this way. For this, I tip my hat to you sir.

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I think you need to re-read my post. Apparently, you didn't get the message. Re-read both, by the way, since most of your misunderstandings have already been addressed. I'll leave you with a question to ponder: If we were scared of your size, why did we tell you what consequences your (non)actions would have days in advance? Sadly, the second I saw you in fortified, I predicted this would happen. As did you, I assume, especially since we already told you. You can try and spin it all you want, it changes nothing. But since you insist on bringing up fairness, I will close this comment by again tell you what your good Silva told me.

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silva: wolf does not care about the opinion of the sheep. you ****played us, now you expected to be treated fairly in return. HAHAHHAAHAHHA.

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In the end, you proved to us that you would screw us over at your first opportunity, no matter how foul your actions would be: you were going to double hostile us because we accepted a few free hits from HoH. In so doing - and through your continued refusal to accept a CF on the basis that you would war us - you essentially brought this sad outcome on yourself; as earlier stated, this is anything but how we wished for things to end.

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...But you made a pretty bold statement there, I'd be interested to hear how far you would go just to mend a relationship between two virtual groups, and I'd also like to know why?

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Are you sure you read even the quoted text? The answer is there in plain writing:

How far would I go? "I am willing to resign my position in SWEA and abandon my province".
Why would I do this? "should that help you ever becoming friends again".


Respectfully,

Justin Sane
SWEA.

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Originally Posted by SillyRabbit

. This is not a deal, and we shouldn't be arguing this point.

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It might not be an official we're gonna war you but it certainly gives SWEA justification for what they did to you. Not sure how anyone can call it poor form on SWEAs part. They made it real clear if you force us to pump to war you we will either war or wave you in your war. You said okay and yet imply they did something bad.

Well Jsane,

Obviously I'm not here trying to convince you why you were wrong. Neither am I here to convince anyone of why I am right. Instead I am laying all the facts on the table, the size difference of our kds, the background on the 3 back-to-back wars, the situation with SWEA, Pew and Us on who gets to wave first gets war, the fact that Pew hostiled us first, the fact that you were told with a 4 hour window that unless we had the button from you we would war Pew, the fact that you were 20% larger with months to pump over us, and the fact that your kd has no class to wave into our war.

(Isn't it common practice to notice multple kds anyway? And simply because you are given notice does not entitle you to anything. If you want acres, you can wave for them. Not letting you have NW/acre/science/wizzie/resource AND button advantage on us).

We showed you a handful of candy and took it away. Tears started flowing and baby bit back. Whether you believe you were justified hitting into the war or not because we made you pump is neither here nor there. If we get ostracized by the community for robbing into EoA cfs (even tho we could also argue that some of those kds deserved it), then you certainly shouldn't think you are walking away from this encounter with a clean slate.

Your last post added nothing new to this discussion. What does Silvas comment about the wolf not caring about the opinion of the sheep matter? You actually regard us as the wolf and yourself as the sheep, even comparing 18.5m NW to 15.7m? Heh, that's sad confidence you have in your kds abilities. What is this about a double hostile? You know that we were the ones who approached Kygal asking her to accept a CF so you guys wouldn't have a double hostile with a kd 5 times smaller than you as an excuse to avoid us, right?

I just would like to say...afdter reading all this garbage...You top nubs are idiots. Carrying on over all this and especially the rage/swea nimrods...ffs...they are spewing lies and whining tryna get anyone they can to believe their horse ****.

Props to cody and silva for keepin it real and bonkin some heads.

Btw...to the rest of the community...you dont matter. You're just here to whore off of.

I don't understand how this game still even exists anymore its just a giant time sink

I can confirm what Cody said is definitely true and accurate. For starters, Jsane is a terrible negotiator and diplomat, so he fails to understand any situation with any degree clarity. Although MANSOOR and myself had a NON-BINDING agreement in principle to war each other, and we both tried to get Pewpew off our backs, the terms were never agreed upon and we all know nothing is set in stone until it's all in black and white - the failure to agree on how we should get into war like I told Mansoor meant that our agreement in principle failed to materialise into anything more, unfortunately.

It's as simple as that. I even have the logs:

15:34 Silva pewpew will keep waving us
15:34 Silva we are stuck here.
15:34 Silva if we give u hostile, pewpew contineus waving us, this will become a farce.
15:35 Silva if u can get petrified to stop, we can consider.
15:44 Mansoor he isn't answering
15:44 Mansoor i gotta go
15:44 Mansoor talk to jsane on absnet
15:55 Mansoor 16:50 Petrified they should enter war with you if they want to escape us
15:56 Silva so what's the grand plan now.
15:56 Mansoor you give us button we declare you withing 24-36 hours
16:00 Silva so you are saying: give us button, pew will continue with 2 waves into u, then we will declare.
16:00 Silva i think we have failed to come to terms despite our agreement in principle to war.
16:01 Silva what u are asking is way beyond unreasonable.
16:01 Silva u want to war, u give us button or declare immediately, or there is no war, it's your call.

They failed to provide either option which we presented to them to war us (incl giving them button and them declaring immediately), end of story. So saying we reneged on our agreement to war when we gave you 2 ways to war us...give me a break lol.

I deny everything that has been said in this thread, except binars post.

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Originally Posted by Silvapwns

I can confirm what Cody said is definitely true and accurate. For starters, Jsane is a terrible negotiator and diplomat, so he fails to understand any situation with any degree clarity. Although MANSOOR and myself had a NON-BINDING agreement in principle to war each other, and we both tried to get Pewpew off our backs, the terms were never agreed upon and we all know nothing is set in stone until it's all in black and white - the failure to agree on how we should get into war like I told Mansoor meant that our agreement in principle failed to materialise into anything more, unfortunately.

It's as simple as that. I even have the logs:

15:34 Silva pewpew will keep waving us
15:34 Silva we are stuck here.
15:34 Silva if we give u hostile, pewpew contineus waving us, this will become a farce.
15:35 Silva if u can get petrified to stop, we can consider.
15:44 Mansoor he isn't answering
15:44 Mansoor i gotta go
15:44 Mansoor talk to jsane on absnet
15:55 Mansoor 16:50 Petrified they should enter war with you if they want to escape us
15:56 Silva so what's the grand plan now.
15:56 Mansoor you give us button we declare you withing 24-36 hours
16:00 Silva so you are saying: give us button, pew will continue with 2 waves into u, then we will declare.
16:00 Silva i think we have failed to come to terms despite our agreement in principle to war.
16:01 Silva what u are asking is way beyond unreasonable.
16:01 Silva u want to war, u give us button or declare immediately, or there is no war, it's your call.

They failed to provide either option which we presented to them to war us (incl giving them button and them declaring immediately), end of story. So saying we reneged on our agreement to war when we gave you 2 ways to war us...give me a break lol.

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Yes, insulting me will surely make your point; riddle me this, if I am so terrible, how come I resolved the Kygal situation in the matter of minutes after you tried to make a farce out of our negotiations?

That said, I still find it fairly amusing that you of all people (Debauchery, not you personally), rev up the spin machine with regards to whether we had an agreement to war or not; again, where was the binding agreement with Rage that motivated you to deal break? Anyway, you can pull up all these last minute logs all you want. In the end, everyone involved knows that the situation was clear days in advance - including what would happen if PewPew waved you first. I do not blame you from trying to use it to your advantage, whether dictating terms to your advantage then or improving the image of your kingdom now, but don't be sad or mad at us because it did not work: you made the bed, we made sure you got to sleep in it. We simple stuck to our word; a foreign concept, I know.

Looking back, there is nothing about your course of action that suggests you tried for any other outcome than the one you got: if you truly wanted to avoid this outcome, it would have been extremely easy for you to approach us before the end of your war to come up with an agreement on how to start the war and how to best avoid pew - including, for example, us hitting into your EOW, or you coming out early. Quite simply, I think you considered your options and decided - in retrospect, incorrectly - that letting PewPew wave you into fortified was the best choice: had it panned out, you would've been able to deal away PewPew at the cost of trimming excess fat while significantly improving your odds at dealing with us by using their 'interference' as leverage to try and dictate the terms to your favor. Very clever, but you were surely aware of the inherent risk: you just underestimated it.

And so here we are, both losers of the incorrect bets we made.


Cordially,

Justin Sane.
SWEA.


P.S. You and Cody really need to talk more with each other. In our talk, I made it clear to Cody that we would make sure Petrified/Pew stayed out of the conflict if you gave us the button: a promise that explicitly included pushing the button should the need arise.

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Originally Posted by JustinSane

Yes, insulting me will surely make your point; riddle me this, if I am so terrible, how come I resolved the Kygal situation in the matter of minutes after you tried to make a farce out of our negotiations?

That said, I still find it fairly amusing that you of all people (Debauchery, not you personally), rev up the spin machine with regards to whether we had an agreement to war or not; again, where was the binding agreement with Rage that motivated you to deal break? Anyway, you can pull up all these last minute logs all you want. In the end, everyone involved knows that the situation was clear days in advance - including what would happen if PewPew waved you first. I do not blame you from trying to use it to your advantage, whether dictating terms to your advantage then or improving the image of your kingdom now, but don't be sad or mad at us because it did not work: you made the bed, we made sure you got to sleep in it. We simple stuck to our word; a foreign concept, I know.

Looking back, there is nothing about your course of action that suggests you tried for any other outcome than the one you got: if you truly wanted to avoid this outcome, it would have been extremely easy for you to approach us before the end of your war to come up with an agreement on how to start the war and how to best avoid pew - including, for example, us hitting into your EOW, or you coming out early. Quite simply, I think you considered your options and decided - in retrospect, incorrectly - that letting PewPew wave you into fortified was the best choice: had it panned out, you would've been able to deal away PewPew at the cost of trimming excess fat while significantly improving your odds at dealing with us by using their 'interference' as leverage to try and dictate the terms to your favor. Very clever, but you were surely aware of the inherent risk: you just underestimated it.

And so here we are, both losers of the incorrect bets we made.


Cordially,

Justin Sane.
SWEA.


P.S. You and Cody really need to talk more with each other. In our talk, I made it clear to Cody that we would make sure Petrified/Pew stayed out of the conflict if you gave us the button: a promise that explicitly included pushing the button should the need arise.

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You resolved the situation because Kygal wanted to do me a favour period. Re the P.S., certainly easy to say stuff like that on hindsight after you hit into our war and gained a good chunk of acres from it without retaliation. Not the impression I got from Mansoor though so you definitely need to talk to your boss a lot more.