cj DB and notice -wsk-

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Originally Posted by Anri

I was not aware utopia had so many lawyers.

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bear with me here, working from memory...

"actual notice exists if the claimant actually see, or otherwise knows, of the fact the other party is claiming."

"constructive notice is notice of a fact that a person is presumed to have, regardless of whether he or she actually does, since such knowledge is obtainable by the exercise of reasonable care." (i.e. if you could've obtained the information by exercising reasonable care, you'll be deemed to have notice of it--no blind eye exception)

"inquiry notice exists if the appearance of the fact the other party is claiming is such that the claimant should have asked more question about the fact." (i.e. if something appears one way, you have a duty to inquire)

"knowledge means the actual and conscious knowledge and the knowledge that said person would have reasonably obtained after making due and appropriate inquiry with respect to the particular matter in question." (meaning anything of which you are aware, regardless of how you became aware, and anything that you would have became aware if you exercised due care--there is no blind eye exception--then you will be deemed to have knowledge)

[QUOTE=Akkadian/Taylor;15344748]bear with me here, working from memory...

"actual notice exists if the claimant actually see, or otherwise knows, of the fact the other party is claiming."

ok mr Suit...so judgeing from this...its like you go to a guy...kick his teeth in and say "i told you i was gonna beat you, oh i forgot? oh my bad" here is the proof

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Originally Posted by portofelia

ok mr Suit...so judgeing from this...its like you go to a guy...kick his teeth in and say "i told you i was gonna beat you, oh i forgot? oh my bad" here is the proof

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Not following whatsoever here.

Found this in my outline, its worded better than above: When knowledge of the existence of a particular fact is an element of an offense, such knowledge is established if a person is aware of a high probability of its existence, unless he actually believes that it does not exist.

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ok mr Suit...so judgeing from this...its like you go to a guy...kick his teeth in and say "i told you i was gonna beat you, oh i forgot? oh my bad" here is the proof

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Ok took me about 20 times reading that, what I think you mean to say is person A goes to person B and kicks him in the teeth and says "I told you I was gonna beat you" Person B claims he had no knowledge but person A says "Oh YOU forgot? my bad"

Him telling a guy that he is going to hit doesn't really have any legal relevance to anything. I think what you're trying to get at in actual knowledge, but better example is the following:

A posts an ad to sell his car in the newspaper. The ad says "great car, but the radio is broken." B sees the ad and buys the car. B has actual knowledge of the broken radio.

Constructive notice: Person A sells Property to Person B. Person B records the requisite deed with the public recorders office. Person A then sells the property to Person C. Person C claims rights in the property and says he did not have knowledge that Person A already sold it to Person B. Person C will be deemed to have knowledge of the sale because Person B recorded the deed in the public recorders office.

Inquiry Notice: Person A goes to sell a house to Person B. Person A does not inspect the house for termites, but he saw termite dust in the house. During the sale he represents that he has never seen termites in the house. The house is actually infested with termites. Person A will be held liable and will be deemed to have knowledge of the termites.

I been watching all seasons and all episodes of Suits!
I am Mike Ross and Taylor is Harvey Spector...

http://www.30nema.in/wp-content/uplo...-1920-1080.jpg

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Originally Posted by Anri

I been watching all seasons and all episodes of Suits!
I am Mike Ross and Taylor is Harvey Spector...

http://www.30nema.in/wp-content/uplo...-1920-1080.jpg

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I can be your Rachel?

Anri and BoH <3

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Originally Posted by Akkadian/Taylor

Inquiry Notice: Person A goes to sell a house to Person B. Person A does not inspect the house for termites, but he saw termite dust in the house. During the sale he represents that he has never seen termites in the house. The house is actually infested with termites. Person A will be held liable and will be deemed to have knowledge of the termites.

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Cant prove he saw it. Your assuming he may have seen it, so it's actually not a fact.

Chrystal, from my knowledge, never acknowledged receiving a notice. He just discussed the notice and how he would be displeased over one. See, now that is my assumption.

If he never received a notice, you cannot prove what he saw or didnt see. Him hearing it from someone else outside of the KD serving notice does not make it a fact either. Thats like me telling you Unicorns exist. Just cause I said it, does not make it a fact if there is no proof.

WSK only has itself to blame for this mess. And if the mail was not important what was the need to send the mail afterwards saying Notice has been served from this date. And what is their proof that was the very moment they served notice?

Objection, your honor! That's hearsay! HEARSAY NOTICE I SAY!

I move that all scummy lawyers posts be stricken from the record immediately

Just have cp not retal, wait 2 waves, op them, and then cj gets a buffet, this seems simple to me.

Wsk cant one way hostile a kd half their size forever.

Ez acres.

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Alternatively, wsk is on the clock to start the hostile, cp doesnt have to lose much with button given into full fort and a well timed withdraw.

Same situation, wsk is now on notice only with cj, and gets massively farmed from the vulture.

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2.alternatively, my kd waves cp to hostile, now cp is hostile and wsk has nowhere to go!

From fwiw, i believe this is the first time someone is attempting to notice another kingdom without actually doing any of the following
- starting a dragon vs the opposing kingdom
- sending an in game mail to the opposing monarch/steward
- sending a message to the other party through irc/whatsapp?

Most utopians know the standard procedure listed above, and that just changing of kingdom name isn't enough.

In addition, wsk know it too. In our earlier war this age, you noticed me using both changing of kingdom name + sending an in game mail. You actually opened that mail in your SENT folder so I didn't see any 'green diamond' on my side.

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Originally Posted by cRs

We had one more war this age CJ, when we also noticed you the same way we noticed Crystal now... do u have a writen notice from back then? no... and yet it was valid :) so now that it doesnt suits u... changing the unwriten rulles so a deal break covers up.

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You forgot your own facts. You actually did send a mail the last time you noticed a kingdom.

Game Date January 4 of YR3
Real Date Mon, 1 Jun at 21:47 GMT+00:00
Sender The Wise Queen Baby of pretty (CRAZIES)
Recipient The Wise Lord Never say never of Arrive in Utopia Heaven (WSK)
Subject Re:Notice
who taught you that notice should only be sent to monarch, and no starting of drakes/msg to steward.

and more importantly.. opening up the sent message so that it doesnt appear as a green diamond??

> The Wise King Never say never of Arrive in Utopia Heaven (WSK) said: > > 48h as u expected

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You knew how important it was to personally inform a leader of the other kingdom.. That's why you sent a backdated mail 14hrs later

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Originally Posted by TheRealKremlin

Haha, So I just got an in-game notice. Let me share :)

Game Date January 13 of YR10
Real Date Tue, 21 Jul at 06:53 GMT+00:00
Sender The Wise King asf of When Utopia kingdoms (X:XX)
Recipient The Wise King Penguin Man of The Lost City of Penguins (X:X)
Subject 72h notice

72h notice from July 24 yr 9

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Also, you publicly acknowledge that wsk-cp/krelim...

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Originally Posted by cRs

we care even less about you man. We have no intention into farming u or whateva - thats not our style. You are used as a shell according to our deals, nothing more nothing less.

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Originally Posted by cRs

Chrystal we dont care about you and ur kd.. your just a pion that provide us a shield according to our deals. Nothing more nothing less, we have nothing with you. Simple as that...

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Well if crazies were to be crazily demanding of our eoacf terms like 25% acres, acres cap, no growth, no prov above xx size bla bla (mind you.. All these have been proposed/done in whoring tier before).. Sure. Go ahead and dodge.. I would dodge if I were you.

But when the previous offer was 11.5k acres (8%) of your land for eoacf.. And when Flogger (most crowns last 10-15 ages), zauper (leader of old cr+ed, leader of expendibles), Mr curious (ex leader of jerks during their whoring phrase), BoH (#1 forum troll) and others have expressed it was a very fair deal and wondered why you didn't take it....

I'm not a leader of expendibles, and I wouldn't really say I was an old leader of ED either. They've always been parth's kd. (or stylez / cave / etc /etc)

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Originally Posted by TheOne

From fwiw, i believe this is the first time someone is attempting to notice another kingdom without actually doing any of the following
- starting a dragon vs the opposing kingdom
- sending an in game mail to the opposing monarch/steward
- sending a message to the other party through irc/whatsapp?

Most utopians know the standard procedure listed above, and that just changing of kingdom name isn't enough.

In addition, wsk know it too. In our earlier war this age, you noticed me using both changing of kingdom name + sending an in game mail. You actually opened that mail in your SENT folder so I didn't see any 'green diamond' on my side.



You forgot your own facts. You actually did send a mail the last time you noticed a kingdom.

Game Date January 4 of YR3
Real Date Mon, 1 Jun at 21:47 GMT+00:00
Sender The Wise Queen Baby of pretty (CRAZIES)
Recipient The Wise Lord Never say never of Arrive in Utopia Heaven (WSK)
Subject Re:Notice
who taught you that notice should only be sent to monarch, and no starting of drakes/msg to steward.

and more importantly.. opening up the sent message so that it doesnt appear as a green diamond??

> The Wise King Never say never of Arrive in Utopia Heaven (WSK) said: > > 48h as u expected

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You knew how important it was to personally inform a leader of the other kingdom.. That's why you sent a backdated mail 14hrs later



Also, you publicly acknowledge that wsk-cp/krelim...





Well if crazies were to be crazily demanding of our eoacf terms like 25% acres, acres cap, no growth, no prov above xx size bla bla (mind you.. All these have been proposed/done in whoring tier before).. Sure. Go ahead and dodge.. I would dodge if I were you.

But when the previous offer was 11.5k acres (8%) of your land for eoacf.. And when Flogger (most crowns last 10-15 ages), zauper (leader of old cr+ed, leader of expendibles), Mr curious (ex leader of jerks during their whoring phrase), BoH (#1 forum troll) and others have expressed it was a very fair deal and wondered why you didn't take it....

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Says the #1 fsu/chartshaper of last age....
The man asking for charity from every ghetto on server.
The man that went neutral in awar out of the good of his heart so he can get a lead to vulture the rest.

Why would anyone listen to you?

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Originally Posted by Razer

Says the #1 fsu/chartshaper of last age....
The man asking for charity from every ghetto on server.
The man that went neutral in awar out of the good of his heart so he can get a lead to vulture the rest.

Why would anyone listen to you?

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Same reason they don't listen to you?

I think this is why cj reference all other players..
He needs others to make his case.
I am puzzled how the top allows cj up there this age at all.
After last age he should have 1-2 cool-down ages before even possible to get a position in the top. Whoring tiers hit an all time low this age. It is remarkable achievement, almost Mansoor like..

Dear razer/guilty conscious,

if you would like to discuss about the current on-going issues wsk-CP-Crazies, sure np. But if you would like to bring up the past issues between Pandas-Crazies.. I got nothing to say.

We had a yr 6+48 hrs notice. You decide to join the awar. And despite after the awar ending.. instead of giving a plain 48hours notice to Pandas.. crazies decided to give 6 days of prep time instead of the 2 days. this is on top of the extra 2 days towards the end of awar where you received 0 hits/ops.. and the previous few days prior to that where you were barely op/hit by 1 kingdom.

I dont understand why some of you feel you are justified to have XX amount of prep time after awar ended.

I spoke to Taylor after our war ended. And I believe I expressed my appreciation to him that Pandas actually decided to war cRAZiEs instead of finding ways to run away etc. It takes alot of courage for a kingdom to actually fight a war which they are underdogs. I definitely thanked Taylor for the war.

As I mentioned before.. we can agree to disagree on whats the right amount 'fair' time pandas should have for prep. We were only on 48hrs notice at that point in time

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Originally Posted by Razer

Says the #1 fsu/chartshaper of last age....
The man asking for charity from every ghetto on server.
The man that went neutral in awar out of the good of his heart so he can get a lead to vulture the rest.

Why would anyone listen to you?

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Actually I was the biggest chart shaper last age. Which is why I eoa cf everyone in the top or tried to. I don't believe cj handed emermoji the crown.

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Originally Posted by Guilty Conscience

I think this is why cj reference all other players..
He needs others to make his case.
I am puzzled how the top allows cj up there this age at all.
After last age he should have 1-2 cool-down ages before even possible to get a position in the top. Whoring tiers hit an all time low this age. It is remarkable achievement, almost Mansoor like..

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This is hilarious. Who's going to stop him? You?

You wouldn't be in the position you are in right now if flogger wasn't carrying u and ur kd around

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Originally Posted by TheOne

BoH (#1 forum troll) and others have expressed it was a very fair deal and wondered why you didn't take it....

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I also said you should be GB'd, but thank you for your nod as #1 forum troll <3

#GBcJ

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Originally Posted by Kandy

This is hilarious. Who's going to stop him? You?

You wouldn't be in the position you are in right now if flogger wasn't carrying u and ur kd around

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He is? How so? Please elaborate.

Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.

Why are pandas all up in my shiznit?

I don't doubt wsk gave me notice. I want to know when. When was notice given? When I noticed there kd name change? I mean our cf ended in yr 9. So can I assume notice was given to me at some point in our 9? Or does it go by when cj told me I was noticed? When does kd page update? Could their kd name been a notice for days? I am to take their word notice was given to me on such a date? I mean everyone in utopia is honest and not trying to one up someone.

This thread is not about wsk and Chrystal. It's about a deal break. How do we know cj db? When was my notice served? I ask you when!? The date cj told me I was noticed? The date I saw their kd page? The date they sent me an in game notice?

Here, i'll play palem for a moment since he only seems to moderate our threads.

"Get on Topic, cJ!"

You know very well why you gave 6 days prep time...there was quite the book in other threads detailing the reasons. Don't come in here posting as though you are humble and generous.

Getting back to the topic on hand, as many of you have mentioned, deals have gone back to the ABS days of having to detail everything and put everything into fine print. You all seem to be hung up on chrystal not receiving some sort of in game notice...well, where in his deal with wsk did he state that he must receive notice to a particular province or thru a particular method? I know that in the past, many deals were created in which giving notice had to be made by sending it to ALL 25 provinces, in game. Such deals were very specific. We are now also told that we must be specific to not have notices given into War or EOWCF if we want to prevent such things from occuring. Common sense isn't the law of the land here...if it's not clearly stated, then it is up for interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

if it's not clearly stated, then it is up for interpretation.

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And it wasn't, which is sorta the point. I think one pretty valid interpretation is that the notice wasn't delivered properly and so there is no issue with CJ's notice.

Probably the way you are going to come down on that is the way that suits your own personal needs / biases the best, which is fine :)

Ok Chuck 2 things for you my man. 1st are you a roro? 2nd you need to get laid. Because you got some built up frustration.

Now like I keep saying. This isn't about notice being valid. This is about proof of when notice was sent. Wsk can say "oh I noticed you on Jan 6 yr8." So you saying notice is how you interpret it. Somehow I don't think that's gonna fly. Also didn't your notice into eowcf not benefit you?

In any case when was notice sent? Is there a log somewhere I can see? Steffen said he sent notice. I'm still waiting to see the screen shot of time.

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Originally Posted by Chrystal Palace

Ok Chuck 2 things for you my man. 1st are you a roro? 2nd you need to get laid. Because you got some built up frustration.

Now like I keep saying. This isn't about notice being valid. This is about proof of when notice was sent. Wsk can say "oh I noticed you on Jan 6 yr8." So you saying notice is how you interpret it. Somehow I don't think that's gonna fly. Also didn't your notice into eowcf not benefit you?

In any case when was notice sent? Is there a log somewhere I can see? Steffen said he sent notice. I'm still waiting to see the screen shot of time.

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If we are accepting the fact that name change was enough then just go to umunk #Freemunk #Crown4Munkbot

According to umunk i see -wsk- July24th yr9 then 72h notice (cp kd) Jan 1 yr 10

Ok. So notice was on Jan 1st yr 10. Not July 24th yr9. ;)

Accepted.

Seems I keep running in circles.

I played in the top as a peon. I played in pew for 3 ages and got bent over and had to give up acres. I didn't like it. I played in CR for one age which was the most fun I had. That b2b2b wins that godking zauper gave us was the best thing to happen to me in utopia. Before all that I was in a kd that was running for warwin and honor crown. Alas BoB outgunned us and we were no match. Couldn't even take it tonwar. We ran from RK. Didn't know tadpole at that time. Never won a crown. Never won anything.

So the end of the age with CR they decided to not compete. I decided I was tired of bending over and not getting a reach around. So I started my own thing. First age we were together I learned the hard way about nw dropping and ended up allowing emeriti to become untouchable.

This age I promised it would be different. If I didn't come to you and ask for an eoa cf then I had someone else ask. Whether it was erv or Kremlin. We took the time out to ask for our cf. Even wsk. We didn't have to. Because first of all wsk is not emeriti by a long shot. We allowed you to get where you are right now without being molested by us. We respected you enough to come and offer a cf. It was given. Yr9 72 hour notice. So while we respected you enough to not steal your gc while you pump or hit you while you were hostile. Hell we didn't even hit into any wars. All of which we did last age. I know how to force a cf. My cf status last age consisted of a few people asking me to stop and asking for a cf.

Now with that said. I will recognize your notice even though the respect wasn't returned like it should have been. However you can bet your ass we will get even and your little Nancy alliance won't save you. Remember you raze me I respawn. I grow. Rinse and repeat. Respect us and we respect you.

Did the deal involve an ingame notice? If not then i guess starting a thread on forums and changing kd name counts as a notice

This isn't about a notice being served its about a db by cj. I agreed wsk served notice and notice was served in Jan 1 yr 10. That's when munk shows kd name change and that's when threads were started


Just one quick question. If you have a deal with another kd of no notice into notice wouldn't you want to send in game message notice for the time stamp? For proof that notice was indeed sent? So confuzzling

This thread is such a joke. The logical fallacies that are argued here are astounding. Please google logical fallacies bc Seriously Idk know if some of u have sociopathic tendencies or being semi good at utopia just makes you keyboard egomaniacs. Save your flawed reasoning for keeping your wives and kids in line!!! Stephan and crs spend more time on proper diplomacy than most of you who are hating work in a week, if theres any confusion its because your trying to make some. We've held up our end of the deal every step of the way, yet somehow we get shunned for what?? trying as hard as possible to give their kd mates a fair fight. x:x you have better options then this so don't hide behind the false logic Heres 1 solution... if u want to fight us you could use size and help force us into a actually fair war, then take on the winner....but o wait having to fight warseekers on level playing field isnt anything your actually interested in. You'd lose and you know it! Dont believe me help make it happen! You all wonder why utopia is dying, this thread gives a nice outline. win our lose I'd rather be a warseeker than part of a group that hides behind bs excuses like it's the only option or any of the haters trying dirty our name bc simply arent as talentedm How can anyone point fingers at us for what transpired and after the facts have been layed out. We all worked hard to be in the top 5 hell even top 10 so why does all integrity and respect go out the window towards the eoa. it'd be nice if the crown winner was truly the best and not just the best bully

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Originally Posted by Earth

QQ

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Um hello? Fair fight? You notice a kd how much smaller than you? You didn't have the respect to inform us of said notice but we had to find out from the guy your dodging.

And it's not hard to be in the top 10 my friend. It's not even hard to be in the top 5. Also you are there because you were allowed to be there. Every kd in the top 5 can beat you. You know this as does everyone else. So take your drivel elsewhere.

Also if you think about it I gave you a way out. You could have said "oh yeah maybe we didn't notice cp. <wink wink>" but you didn't. Now I have to save the 10k in my pool and use it to recover so I can continue kicking your asses. And I may sound like ibam talking out of my ass but as far as ghettoes go? CP > you

I also expect everyone I have eoa cf with honor them. Keep your noses out of my business.

You should have accepted the deal wsk, instead of changing your name.

Flipping guy. Talking about respect. Where was the respect that I deserved? You couldn't take a few minutes to let me know I was noticed? For the next few ages you will have to come to us with hat in hand as ask for permission to war in peace. I stated before we don't play by absaloms or anyone else's rules. We will hit when we want. We will steal when we want. We will get razed. We will die. We will respawn and we will do it again. How is that for respect?

Anyone else have a problem with how I play this out? Tough cookies. You all know how I play. I started a thread last age warning people what we will do. We wanted to be left alone. We wanted to meet our own goals. Our own challenges. This is exactly why I don't have a monarch. Because now I make the choices. So go pound sand wsk. You done pissed me off. Gonna come here and talk about respect.

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Originally Posted by Earth

This thread is such a joke. The logical fallacies that are argued here are astounding. Please google logical fallacies bc Seriously Idk know if some of u have sociopathic tendencies or being semi good at utopia just makes you keyboard egomaniacs. Save your flawed reasoning for keeping your wives and kids in line!!! Stephan and crs spend more time on proper diplomacy than most of you who are hating work in a week, if theres any confusion its because your trying to make some. We've held up our end of the deal every step of the way, yet somehow we get shunned for what?? trying as hard as possible to give their kd mates a fair fight. 7:16 you have better options then this so don't hide behind the false logic Heres 1 solution... if u want to fight us you could use size and help force us into a actually fair war, then take on the winner....but o wait having to fight warseekers on level playing field isnt anything your actually interested in. You'd lose and you know it! Dont believe me help make it happen! You all wonder why utopia is dying, this thread gives a nice outline. win our lose I'd rather be a warseeker than part of a group that hides behind bs excuses like it's the only option or any of the haters trying dirty our name bc simply arent as talentedm How can anyone point fingers at us for what transpired and after the facts have been layed out. We all worked hard to be in the top 5 hell even top 10 so why does all integrity and respect go out the window towards the eoa. it'd be nice if the crown winner was truly the best and not just the best bully

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correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Crazies already beat WSK in 'a actually fair war' at the beginning of the age?

I seem to remember crazies and wsk warring almost OOP, and after the war crazies had 1/1 WW and WSK had 0/1 WW. Maybe i'm wrong.

WSK is 2/3 WW right now... who did you lose that one war to?

From them of course :)

But when the previous offer was 11.5k acres (8%) of your land for eoacf.. And when Flogger (most crowns last 10-15 ages), zauper (leader of old cr+ed, leader of expendibles), Mr curious (ex leader of jerks during their whoring phrase), BoH (#1 forum troll) and others have expressed it was a very fair deal and wondered why you didn't take it....[/QUOTE]

2 things:

1) For the love of god man, looking past the incorrect use of english/grammar/spacingwhatever, my name is MrCurious ! :P :P

2) Being offered a EoA for 11.5k acres (7-8% acres) is a bargain. Its mind boggling why such a offer was refused, especially in the position wSk were in. Give the land, use pool on strategic provs and prepare to fight Fluffy instead. Now you are just moving into a weird position and i bet you it will end up being worse for you, then just taking the sweet deal in the first place.

EDIT: Yeah, i ****ed up the quoting... but you get my point :P

"Being offered a EoA..."

Trolling is a art ;-)

Don't have time to read 14 pages of drama but it looks to me from what Stefan posted originally, daddio never agreed to the deal with wsk, so unless there are more logs, cj doesn't even need to wait for notice to end to start hitting.

Stefan, I highly suggest you brush up on your diplo...

Ignore me if more was posted between pages 2-14 ;)

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Originally Posted by Leshrak

Don't have time to read 14 pages of drama but it looks to me from what Stefan posted originally, daddio never agreed to the deal with wsk, so unless there are more logs, cj doesn't even need to wait for notice to end to start hitting.

Stefan, I highly suggest you brush up on your diplo...

Ignore me if more was posted between pages 2-14 ;)

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I will wrap up the previous 14 pgs for you:
cRAZiEs offered CF extension
wsk declined, then noticed some random smaller KD out of range in anticipation of cRAZiEs notice
cRAZiEs noticed
wsk QQ claims dealbreak due to their fake notice/hostile needs to be respected
CJ tells wsk to pound sand!
Ghetto_King believes the entire top play is sh1t once again !

Only thing I got out of this thread is that I should make sure my Jew Advocate does his job properly and signs the notice correctly.

<Paul Heyman.Gif>

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Originally Posted by makeo

Only thing I got out of this thread is that I should make sure my Jew Advocate does his job properly and signs the notice correctly.

<Paul Heyman.Gif>

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I DONT SEE THE GIF! Does Brock Tag along? :D