CR vs AMA

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Originally Posted by Anri

We will never know if CR had done it or not. If they had, chances had been very high it had backfired and they would have been on the receiving end of a GB. My point is that only AMA and maybe someone else justified that kind of behaviour before, while most think its wrong to play that way. No matter what i think about AMA i had temporary stod by thier side against CR if that had happend. A threat is nothing but a threat, a bluff is nothing but a bluff. Its up to the KD to call the bluff or negotiate out of it. AMA made this mess and they choose to dealbreak, nothing that happend before this can make up for it.

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Exactly you are talking about risks, chances and probabilities. AMA choices, to me at least, were:

1) Wave CR early and take the chance that the rest of the T10 wouldn?t action them. And argue that they shouldn?t be auctioned because CRs indication that they would hit them on that date irrespective of anything else was in fact a dealbreak and left them with no choice.

2) Arrange early war with Pyro so as to be in a situation where CR could not notice them as per their terms. This involves taking the chance that CR will indeed not follow through on their claim to wave them no matter what. And further to that if CR do wave them take the chance that the rest of the server will action against a pumped CR that neither AMA or Pyro, who will have both been weakened by hostile and start of war, will be able to contribute as significantly to.

Given those choices I?d pick option 1 every time; particularly given the rather patchy history all of you guys have in terms of ****playing each other and enforcing stuff to best suit your own ends (as some of you, actually much to your credit, have admitted in this thread).

By the way this is not to suggest I?m pro-AMA, I generally think all of those in leadership roles of the T10 are a bunch of narcisstic hypocrites and equally deserving of reaping what they sow. It could have been any of you in this situation, AMA are just unlucky it is them (something the rest of you might bear in mind slightly more).

Resultantly I find much of ?moral grandstanding? that seems to run throughout thread, justifying one thing or another (and this GB particularly), rather perverse.

I do at least applaud the effort to build something better for the future; I just fear you have run out of faith within the community already. Therefore I don?t think they?ll bear with you whilst you?re attempting it. You?ll either get fed-up of trying to do it without appreciation or one of you will fall short of the standards and you?ll all be right back to square one.

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Originally Posted by ZodZilla

Anri you do realize you've dealbroken AMA twice right? Hard to say there is no excuse for a dealbreak, then turn around and do the same thing to 'police' it. They may have dealbroken (someone who wasn't you), but dealbreaking them still makes you a dealbreaker. Doubletime.

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You need to stop smoking whatever you are smoking.
The rules goes out of the window as soon as AMA ****plays us and others.
They ****ted on us and others and gets GB. When they play legit and stop ****playing they will be treated with the same kind of respect as everyone else. If they had not dealbroken CR we would not have GBed them. Dealbreaking a dealbreaking KD is more then a legit action.

AMA and fans is really starting to hit a new all-time low

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Originally Posted by Anri

You need to stop smoking whatever you are smoking.
The rules goes out of the window as soon as AMA ****plays us and others.
They ****ted on us and others and gets GB. When they play legit and stop ****playing they will be treated with the same kind of respect as everyone else. If they had not dealbroken CR we would not have GBed them. Dealbreaking a dealbreaking KD is more then a legit action.

AMA and fans is really starting to hit a new all-time low

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I would agree that dealbreaking a KD that dealbroke you or an ally might be legit, but that's about it.
You are saying ****play allows for dealbreak and GB, unless it's AMA that is getting ****played?

Instead of crying for 'fair play' why don't you guys just come right out and ask AMA to use kid gloves when you play.

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Originally Posted by Tapout

Exactly you are talking about risks, chances and probabilities. AMA choices, to me at least, were:

1) Wave CR early and take the chance that the rest of the T10 wouldn?t action them. And argue that they shouldn?t be auctioned because CRs indication that they would hit them on that date irrespective of anything else was in fact a dealbreak and left them with no choice.

2) Arrange early war with Pyro so as to be in a situation where CR could not notice them as per their terms. This involves taking the chance that CR will indeed not follow through on their claim to wave them no matter what. And further to that if CR do wave them take the chance that the rest of the server will action against a pumped CR that neither AMA or Pyro, who will have both been weakened by hostile and start of war, will be able to contribute as significantly to.

Given those choices I?d pick option 1 every time; particularly given the rather patchy history all of you guys have in terms of ****playing each other and enforcing stuff to best suit your own ends (as some of you, actually much to your credit, have admitted in this thread).

By the way this is not to suggest I?m pro-AMA, I generally think all of those in leadership roles of the T10 are a bunch of narcisstic hypocrites and equally deserving of reaping what they sow. It could have been any of you in this situation, AMA are just unlucky it is them (something the rest of you might bear in mind slightly more).

Resultantly I find much of ?moral grandstanding? that seems to run throughout thread, justifying one thing or another (and this GB particularly), rather perverse.

I do at least applaud the effort to build something better for the future; I just fear you have run out of faith within the community already. Therefore I don?t think they?ll bear with you whilst you?re attempting it. You?ll either get fed-up of trying to do it without appreciation or one of you will fall short of the standards and you?ll all be right back to square one.

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Well, i dont think we have ran out of faith at all. Most is banned from speaking in these forums and many others dont care.
Its a fact that every KD in t10 thinks this is fair and want to at least try and make the game better. It is only AMA that does not want this, still up to this moment.

And needless to say, AMA had a BUNCH of alternatives and they picked the very worst alternative they could in hopes they would crown out of it. **** happens, but they did.

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Originally Posted by Chuck

Which one is it crazy Pete. .. You deserve to be GBed or not? You guys can't make up your mind as to whether or not you can accept that what you did was wrong. Don't expect any sort of cf from simians in ages to come.

Proteus, I used to respect you. All that is now out the window. You seem to think that you have some sort of legitimate argument and that we actually have to justify our actions to you guys. The fact of the matter is that the only ppl that needed to be convinced are already in agreement with us. There is nothing for you to gain with your long winded posts. Give it up already. Surely you must have better things to do with your time. .

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You are misunderstanding my points, I'm not trying to stop a gb nor did i think there wouldn't be one, for years it was my job to anticipate what other kds would do and outplay them and I was pretty darn good at it.

The problem here is you are selectively actioning this payback to havoc under veil of fair play. To me as a leader with lots of experience in the top playing and leading in various alliances, this is an act of hypocrisy. If you want to play fair then you need to action all things that are unfair. Community thinks 2v1, interference with eowcf, dibs, cf break, friendly farmouts are unfair. Yet all of this stuff happened without being actioned. A lot of this stuff happened this age without being actioned.

I keep on bringing up pew because they are dirtiest kd in top in recent ages, they farmed a crown to SWEA intentionally and hit outside of war entire time in most blatant abuse of mechanics and deals known to the game, who here actioned them? No body. This age no body actioned pewpew when they robbed ama into eow cf and "hostiled" them by starting a thread here in forums and dragon project. Fighting who you want to fight when you arnt hostile is also fair play. Why did pews own allies fail to police them? Drixx even bragged that he will police own allies but just made excuses for this, what a n00b hypocrite.

Why was havoc allowed to back ama into a corner and say if you fight anyone but us y9 we will 2v1 you. We had a cf deal and are entitled to fight whoever we want other than havoc and 2v1 threats and dealbreak with early notice will not change that.

I believe dealbreaking is wrong but at times it is justifiable if the person you are dealbreaking has ****played you.

If you guys want to play fair enforce everything or nothing. Otherwise this is another grab for crown by kds not good enough to win it.

Its funny that rbl claims to stand for fair play but last age they competed for nw crown using farmed acres, how is that fair for anyone in the game?

Also last interesting point if there are about 5-6 kds competing for land and playing in range in the game how fair is it when 3 of those kds ally up and the 4th cfs them until year 10. This means that its 4vs2 and 2 kds will be put through the ringer giving the limited number of targets and wont get a chance to pump or explore as cfs will be controlled while the other 4 can do what they want. Are you guys that damn bad and unsure of yourselves that you need to nap 67% the competition for 10+ weeks to feel you have an ok chance to win?

I dont really understand this fairplay stuff. We cant remember this in future ages and cant hold grudges? Why cant we? We had grudges before and allways dealt with them 1v1, and there is no reason why we wouldnt deal with them 1v1 in the future.

Or do you mean that we cant war or fight anyone in this gb in the coming 10 ages? That seems fairplay.

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Originally Posted by guard14n

To Havoc - Godly, munk and the rest of u - it doesnt matter how much u think this is fair - u bullied, u threatened and u tried to dictate how others play. Now u wont get crown so our job is done.

To Rage - Drixx u failed to beat us with the biggest atvantage possible and now this? 2nd GB in 4 ages from u mate? And u try to be the player that goes for reviving the game, for fair play and so on and so on. Jeez the hypocracy here is unimaginable. Point is u got outplayed and this is how u do your payback for losing a war vs us when u were sooo much bigger of course hiding behind the fair play logo.

To Pyro - cJ, Nesta - U guys are the worst from all. U were all acting soo good so friendly and so noble but in the end u are worse than them all. U had no problems with us dealbreaking Havoc when u though ur crown was assured. U had no issues with Havoc 2v1 us cuz this helped u. But when us revenging havoc came in ur way for a crown u just lost ur mind. We offered u a deal to raze land to ur size and be 5% smaller when u wanna war us thus deciding the age like men - that gave u clean shot in crowning, fair play and all u ever preached for but no u said NO cuz u dont want to be fair u just want it to be easy. U are the ones that started the GB via quotting cJ " <cJ> i think havoc only needed pyro though. i mean if pyro didnt join in, the others wont tbh". U are worse than Havoc - at least they openly stated that they wanna 2v1 us to win - u just hide behind pretty words and manipulative diplomacy. U wont get the crown i can assure u that - not this age not the next!

Simians - U have Anri. Nuff said

All the rest ghettoo x kdmates of the upper kds - when hyenas are in good numbers they can even take a lion down.

Last but not least - this does not end with this age - congrats u just created a new pew pew but with more skills. HF and let the ultimate war begin!

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So you are saying that both CR and Pyro won't crown this age. Who do you think is going to crown? #Crowns4BinBin

I guess Chuck your confused by I agree with the GB, and I agree that our actions were justified given the circumstances, obviously could have been handled better on both sides not just our own. Does this GB change my views that there is a lack of consistency with who the community targets, No. Do I hope in the future there is one standard for all to follow, obviously yes.

Just because I voted in favour of the deal break doesn't mean I think it was fair play lol. You can spin it how you like, this guy said that blah blah blah. These are my own words and I stand by them. ANy further argumenst by you and Anri just show how biased you are and not in favour of fair play, but in favour of a lynch mob. Please keep sharing your biased views so I can laugh more

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Originally Posted by Proteus

You are misunderstanding my points, I'm not trying to stop a gb nor did i think there wouldn't be one, for years it was my job to anticipate what other kds would do and outplay them and I was pretty darn good at it.

The problem here is you are selectively actioning this payback to havoc under veil of fair play. To me as a leader with lots of experience in the top playing and leading in various alliances, this is an act of hypocrisy. If you want to play fair then you need to action all things that are unfair. Community thinks 2v1, interference with eowcf, dibs, cf break, friendly farmouts are unfair. Yet all of this stuff happened without being actioned. A lot of this stuff happened this age without being actioned.

I keep on bringing up pew because they are dirtiest kd in top in recent ages, they farmed a crown to SWEA intentionally and hit outside of war entire time in most blatant abuse of mechanics and deals known to the game, who here actioned them? No body. This age no body actioned pewpew when they robbed ama into eow cf and "hostiled" them by starting a thread here in forums and dragon project. Fighting who you want to fight when you arnt hostile is also fair play. Why did pews own allies fail to police them? Drixx even bragged that he will police own allies but just made excuses for this, what a n00b hypocrite.

Why was havoc allowed to back ama into a corner and say if you fight anyone but us y9 we will 2v1 you. We had a cf deal and are entitled to fight whoever we want other than havoc and 2v1 threats and dealbreak with early notice will not change that.

I believe dealbreaking is wrong but at times it is justifiable if the person you are dealbreaking has ****played you.

If you guys want to play fair enforce everything or nothing. Otherwise this is another grab for crown by kds not good enough to win it.

Its funny that rbl claims to stand for fair play but last age they competed for nw crown using farmed acres, how is that fair for anyone in the game?

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Exactly, this is why we have to come to terms regarding fair play that goes for all of us and if anyone steps out of line they should get GBed and actioned. It happend to start with AMA. I wish that pewpew had been actioned many ages ago just like Simians was when we stepped out of line etc. I agree with this. But at some point we have to action someone and draw the line, it ends here kind of thing. AMA had little to no problem to handle pewpew this age and could hold its own, pewpew was struggling with inactivity and huge leadership issues. There was not a need to make anything bigger then it was. AMA made the first real ****ty dealbreak that really made a huge impact on the crown race and like i said it has to start somewhere. We all must agree that ****playing is not fun and takes us nowhere. This includes pewpew and other KDs.

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Originally Posted by Anri

Well, i dont think we have ran out of faith at all. Most is banned from speaking in these forums and many others dont care.
Its a fact that every KD in t10 thinks this is fair and want to at least try and make the game better. It is only AMA that does not want this, still up to this moment.

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So all in the T10 think it's fair for AMA to be GB'd except AMA... Hardly a revelation. And even then ProPro himself doesn't seem to have an issue with the GB, he even seems to admit it would be warrented so long as everything was actioned equally. And that is where my issue lays because it seems to me like this is a random time to start and you've got to admit that a bunch of KDs that have not actioned a host of crap in recent ages hardly carry much moral weight.

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Originally Posted by Proteus

...If you guys want to play fair enforce everything or nothing. Otherwise this is another grab for crown by kds not good enough to win it...

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That is pretty much exactly how I feel about the current situation, and what's worse is that means I agree with ProPro about something... I knew there was a reason I avoided these type of things.

why is this not as good time as ever to start something new?

Because AMA was the one ****playing the hardest and it was not pewpew that was sanctioned?

If it helps, i wish pewpew would been sanctioned many times over for thier BS, instead Rage and Pyromaniacs tries a different approuch to teach them ethics and fair play, together i think all kds can make a change for the better.

But its mostly up to everyone to learn and forgive/forget about the past.

And i still hope whoever fights for the crown later this age will do it with style and tagg fair play etc if they win

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Originally Posted by Anri

Exactly, this is why we have to come to terms regarding fair play that goes for all of us and if anyone steps out of line they should get GBed and actioned. It happend to start with AMA. I wish that pewpew had been actioned many ages ago just like Simians was when we stepped out of line etc. I agree with this. But at some point we have to action someone and draw the line, it ends here kind of thing. AMA had little to no problem to handle pewpew this age and could hold its own, pewpew was struggling with inactivity and huge leadership issues. There was not a need to make anything bigger then it was. AMA made the first real ****ty dealbreak that really made a huge impact on the crown race and like i said it has to start somewhere. We all must agree that ****playing is not fun and takes us nowhere. This includes pewpew and other KDs.

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And to give Anri his dues, that is a very fair point as well. Which now means I kind of agree with Anri and ProPro, a doubly horrid evening.

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Originally Posted by Anri

why is this not as good time as ever to start something new?

Because AMA was the one ****playing the hardest and it was not pewpew that was sanctioned?

If it helps, i wish pewpew would been sanctioned many times over for thier BS, instead Rage and Pyromaniacs tries a different approuch to teach them ethics and fair play, together i think all kds can make a change for the better.

But its mostly up to everyone to learn and forgive/forget about the past.

And i still hope whoever fights for the crown later this age will do it with style and tagg fair play etc if they win

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Teach them fair play? Just this age they ****played ama as I described above, how does that allying someone and making excuses for everything they do considered teaching fair play. I talked to a guy in RBL who pretty much said pew was sent to take us (ama) out by vulture this age and after they failed, their ally RBL stepped in (also failed). Anri do you even believe your own propaganda? Now you are making excuses about pewpew losing the war. They lost because they aren't as good as ama, simply put. You know how former athletes are sports commentators/critics, well I put myself in that position having experienced all sided leading/playing and sorry but pewpew is neither good nor honorable.

Also id appreciate if you stop calling RBL Rage...Rage was ASF's kd who then transitioned it over to me when I became monarch and during all of these times the kd was always a top crown contender and one of best warring/whoring kds on server. RBL is not a crown contender nor a warring kd and trying to call them rage is just an insult.

A question to Anri. How many times did AMA dealbreak Simians? By that I mean break a cf, hit before notice etc. Because so far you have db us twice :). That's like 2 CF broken, 2 times hitting in war and 2 GBs. Fairly more than the amount of ****play you have accused AMA of.

Also the claim that Pyro does tms so they can match CR oow? WTF? Last time I saw Pyro were 23k acres bigger than CR. Not to mention AB's bs about CR going to raze themselves. And that having in mind that CR is in a long conflict with us. Is there really someone that believes that they have any chance winning against Pyro w/o an agreed farmout?

Also I still wait for answer of the question when does GB end? AMA already lost the gained acres + 3 provinces. On the other hand the joke that is AB is threatening with GB from oop next age? Will the Justice League confirm? Is that the final decision of the divine party that stands behind the mighty fist of justice? :)

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Originally Posted by Tapout

And to give Anri his dues, that is a very fair point as well. Which now means I kind of agree with Anri and ProPro, a doubly horrid evening.

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I think diplo just pinged on the radar. I definitely heard something ;-)