Congratulations to the age 72 winners!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mongoose

Excalibus common sense never works in these arguments. Utopian lawyers are never wrong and it's always devs fault.

At least it sure seems that way in the few threads i seem to waste my time reading.

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yeah I know this :) common sense goes out the window when "you" are the one who was affected by the consequences of "your" actions it seems

(you and your not directed at you mongoose but in the ubiquitous sense)

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Originally Posted by Sweetiepie

a) An employee handbook doesn't say you can't **** on your desk, but it's not allowed anyway and you will get sacked if you do it

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I appreciate and respect your humanity. I appreciate this line even more.

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Originally Posted by Pillz

The game is about growing. You're supposed to grow. Why should the top handicap themselves to fight for kds that can't grow?

At least in the 30s there was an excuse to stay small, there were lots of kds of equal skill at those sizes. Some even could beat top kds and did. So top kds would take ages to war and honor crown.

Now there are no 'war' kds that can beat top kds (least not without funding) and there are all of like, 4 decent ones? Why would top kds slow down to, Essentially, pick at leftovers

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This game isn't about growing. This game isn't about warring either. They are objectives. They are how each one of us measures success and they differ greatly.

The game is how y'all maneuver around to get there. The game is why a thread like this exists.

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Originally Posted by JeffT

I'm not actually sure what you are taking issue with here -- Panthira's son playing? I don't see anything in the rules that someone under the age of... 13, presumably? That's the COPPA age at least.. must not play. If there were, the appropriate punishment would be to remove his province from the rankings (technically, it would be to delete his province and not allow him to return). Unfortunately, this reporting is happening off age -- the rankings have already been generated, which means no such punishment is possible.

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I'm glad to hear, the kid crowned this age and I'm extremely proud of him. He's worked very hard the last year and a half, and has become a very reliable core. From spending a week at 50a and under constant pk threat, to taking the undead crown.

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Originally Posted by stealth4785

This game isn't about growing. This game isn't about warring either. They are objectives. They are how each one of us measures success and they differ greatly.

The game is how y'all maneuver around to get there. The game is why a thread like this exists.

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So stop hatin' the playa?

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Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000

..... to taking the undead crown.

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Do we need to ask if Steel/Pillz thinks we should charge him with theft?

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Originally Posted by Sheister

Do we need to ask if Steel/Pillz thinks we should charge him with theft?

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I'm sure he'd say worse.

We.had top 3 ud, but it meant a lot to me for him to take it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sheister

So stop hatin' the playa?

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Has to go both ways.

This game is about teamwork. The truest test of the game would be an identical mirror match. Predetermined, identical set ups. Then you choose how you want to measure your success. Now its all about skill; on a micro level, who can manage a province better or on a macro level how a kingdom achieves that objective.

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Originally Posted by stealth4785

Has to go both ways.

This game is about teamwork. The truest test of the game would be an identical mirror match. Predetermined, identical set ups. Then you choose how you want to measure your success. Now its all about skill; on a micro level, who can manage a province better or on a macro level how a kingdom achieves that objective.

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So. To you it is all measured on single conflicts. But the game is majority played outside of conflicts. Thus, it is the kingdom and province management outside of conflict that is actually the most important part of the game. This is just as it is in all competitions. Basketball, soccer, football, etc. all of these games are more about what happens off the ball than on it.

I think you just need to open your eyes a bit.

Put it another way. You want to ignore over half the game to get to your true test.

We like to play the whole game.

Call us when you want to play utopia instead of checkers.

This game has turned to ****.

Letting a cheater take a race crown because the admins, aware of the cheating for ages, never took action because nobody brought it up until after EoA.

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Originally Posted by Pillz

This game has turned to ****.

Letting a cheater take a race crown because the admins, aware of the cheating for ages, never took action because nobody brought it up until after EoA.

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cheat·er
noun

1.a person who acts dishonestly in order to gain an advantage.

What advantage did he gain? Perhaps no wasting his time in drama and forums. His actions were never dishonest, Panthira approached Bishop to let him play, nothing about him was hidden or lied about.

Cheater? Not at all. The kingdom is proud of him, and as a monarch his accomplishment is also my own. Probably the one I am proudest of.

Edit. The game turned to ****? Your example of this is because an 11 year old "cheater" won? Perhaps the skill of people like you is just that low. Undead was very low in representation, our kd had 2 undead to start, we loved the ones we had and started more.

I am not personally affected by these decisions because I don't cheat. I have repeatedly turned down shady deals from several of these upstanding Utopians.

My sincere hope is that none of you ever find yourself in a situation where someone is biased against you.
Ignorance is bliss. carry on

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Originally Posted by Pillz

The rules don't give any room for parental consent. Her son isn't allowed to play whether she allows it or not, according to the rules. According to what was posted by Panthira, it is within the rights of websites to bar entry without leaving room for parental consent, as well, so the rules aren't in contradiction to the law discussed. Here is a link to the rules: http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...s#Terms_of_Use

EDIT: Forgot to finish my post!

So according to the rules, Panthira's son is in violation of the Terms of Use (which means he's cheating), and apparently Panthira received special permission for this (favoritism?), and as there has been no amendment since she got 'permission' for her son to play, and there are no forum posts or entries in the wiki about how to circumvent this clause in the Terms of Use, obviously the rules do apply to everybody but Panthira and her son. Which means they're not being applied equally to everybody.

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Those rules are set as a CYA, where no personal information or birthdays are remembered. Even if playing in a KD where someone's son/daughter was playing in, who, would remember that when dealing with a new entity. No birth dates are entered when creating a new account, which means the system is not even trying to dissuade someone under 13 from playing, let alone feed the information to the owners. It also says that for violating the rule you MAY have your account deleted not MUST be deleted.

The rules also say: Fair & Honorable Play
The operators of the game aim to maintain the highest standards of ethics within the game. Any instance of inappropriate language, manipulation of bugs, or acts of deception/fraud can result in immediate removal from the game. We rely on our users to help us enforce these rules and provide an enjoyable gaming environment for users of all ages and backgrounds.

Are you suggesting that any instance of inappropriate language must also result in immediate removal from the game and rankings? I'm sure the owners could run through the forums and remove half the game population.

Additionally, unless someone under the age of 13 was banned/deleted/removed from rankings there is no proof to state that the rule is not being applied equally to everyone.

Comparing the age rule, to a fake war rule is like comparing 2 different infractions and wanting the same punishment.

IE: littering $250 fine, vs murder jail/death penalty. Or should we imprison/kill off litter bugs

The alternative to what happened is Bart and the devs secretly agreed to this outcome.

What outcome?

The predictable. That the forum bark is louder than the bite. If players who thought Sparta shouldn't crown actually bounce waved Sparta then they wouldn't have been in the drivers seat very long.

But they didn't.

Because of this common frailty in resolve, the devs stepped in like a good ref to stop the fight. Sparta proved a disappointing fact: they gave the base every reason to try and stop them and none even tried.

It's not your fight. I know. It wasn't mine either. But if you were complaining and asking for a gb you have to throw the first punch. Otherwise your another sheep lamenting the loss. What they say about lions: they don't care about the opinions of sheep. - Well porcupines don't care about the opinion of lions. Yes, there's a third way.

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Originally Posted by StratOcastle

The alternative to what happened is Bart and the devs secretly agreed to this outcome.

What outcome?

The predictable. That the forum bark is louder than the bite. If players who thought Sparta shouldn't crown actually bounce waved Sparta then they wouldn't have been in the drivers seat very long.

But they didn't.

Because of this common frailty in resolve, the devs stepped in like a good ref to stop the fight. Sparta proved a disappointing fact: they gave the base every reason to try and stop them and none even tried.

It's not your fight. I know. It wasn't mine either. But if you were complaining and asking for a gb you have to throw the first punch. Otherwise your another sheep lamenting the loss. What they say about lions: they don't care about the opinions of sheep. - Well porcupines don't care about the opinion of lions. Yes, there's a third way.

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I think you.may be mechanically incorrect. The strength of the bordem Strat, 300 dpa and max hosps... The sheer quantity of kingdoms required to make a tiny dent. Without the support of div+BB, it'd be untenable. We're talking many kingdoms giving up their last week of play, leaving themselves vulnerable, giving up goals and.fun... for what Sparta would want anyways. They would disrupt the whole game through lies and foul play. Let's not forget Bart promised a dozen times over to raze off his acres, not that anyone with sense believed him. But by the time it was.made clear, there was no time to action him.

Some ages are the victim of mechanics. Dwarf Strat made untouchable eye gouging turtles a thing. A few ages ago unlimited wiz production and -66% loss humans made it impossible for anyone to fight.up NW.

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Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000

I think you.may be mechanically incorrect. The strength of the bordem Strat, 300 dpa and max hosps... The sheer quantity of kingdoms required to make a tiny dent. Without the support of div+BB, it'd be untenable. We're talking many kingdoms giving up their last week of play, leaving themselves vulnerable, giving up goals and.fun... for what Sparta would want anyways. They would disrupt the whole game through lies and foul play. Let's not forget Bart promised a dozen times over to raze off his acres, not that anyone with sense believed him. But by the time it was.made clear, there was no time to action him.

Some ages are the victim of mechanics. Dwarf Strat made untouchable eye gouging turtles a thing. A few ages ago unlimited wiz production and -66% loss humans made it impossible for anyone to fight.up NW.

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so ask yourself why Divinity and BB didn't support actioning, or better yet ask them. You would think that the second place kingdom would have the most to gain from a GB.
Also, this was brought up in a different thread already, Bart ,coss and divinity offered to raze off the acres gained from policing. The deal crumbled because Astron from BB refused to also raze their acres off. Correct me if I got this wrong please.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

so ask yourself why Divinity and BB didn't support actioning, or better yet ask them. You would think that the second place kingdom would have the most to gain from a GB.
Also, this was brought up in a different thread already, Bart ,coss and divinity offered to raze off the acres gained from policing. The deal crumbled because Astron from BB refused to also raze their acres off. Correct me if I got this wrong please.

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I wasn't involved. But without those two making a deal, there was no chance of anything getting off the ground. They seemed intent to ignore Bart and do their thing, so it didn't matter.

It's interesting that Bart accused me of cheating out of nowhere on IRC last night, and today Mirana and Steel are all over it. Backroom Bart dealings...? I think so.

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Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000

I wasn't involved. But without those two making a deal, there was no chance of anything getting off the ground. They seemed intent to ignore Bart and do their thing, so it didn't matter.

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kind of strange though, right? I mean, here they have half the server up in arms ready to back them in a policing GB on the first place kingdom which would legitimately make them first place and they aren't interested. Even after Divinity clearly stated they wouldn't war BB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

kind of strange though, right? I mean, here they have half the server up in arms ready to back them in a policing GB on the first place kingdom which would legitimately make them first place and they aren't interested. Even after Divinity clearly stated they wouldn't war BB.

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But not half.the server. While I hate Bart and Matija, while Panthira does, while we are co-monarchy... The kingdom wasn't interested, our council was not willing. Many have grudges, but convincing 25 to go along? Or to jeopardize your comrades on personal vendetta?

The server is small, many are one spout of bs away from quitting, now's not the time for grand acts.

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Originally Posted by Panthira

It's interesting that Bart accused me of cheating out of nowhere on IRC last night, and today Mirana and Steel are all over it. Backroom Bart dealings...? I think so.

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lol you are funny. remember who warned you about dealing with Bart when you were so in love with everything he was doing? And me collaborating with steel? If I didn't value my integrity so much I'd be tempted to disagree with everything both of them say or do. But unlike others I don't do that regardless of if I like or dislike a person.

Maybe it has something to do with David posting the update of the ToS yesterday and you crying about your 11 year old being frustrated by being hit(trust me I get the frustration but I would rather bite my tongue off than to use my child for sympathy).
And one of the very first lines in the ToS was the one about the age restrictions. The one that was changed again after I brought it up. Let's assume because it needed updating and not that it was done to cater to your situation.

So as banana states you couldn't convince your own kingdom to unite against Spartans?..oh wait you said Bart, cause you and banana hate Bart and Matija. Not that that is important in any way.

Kid was excited to see his ranking, Smiles. It's no surprise tho since he learned UD play from Shai. :)
<3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panthira

It's interesting that Bart accused me of cheating out of nowhere on IRC last night, and today Mirana and Steel are all over it. Backroom Bart dealings...? I think so.

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The entirety of my interactions with Bart can be seen on these forums and in #tactics logs, since I stopped diploing with him for RoO in age 69.

I also make it a point to try to not even read Mirana's posts because they are usually so devoid of thought, but in this case the thread was too pertinent to my interests, since I disagree with the actions taken by the administrators as well as the manner in which they undertook them.

I dislike Bart and Spartans, but I'm not going to bandwagon just because he got ****ed out of a crown. In fact I don't care that it is Bart, or rather I wish it hadn't been, but that's how the cookie crumbled.

Now how the ToS happened to be updated... that could be an interesting story.

Goodwitch, I don't understand your anger here, your spite, your attempts to hurt or embarrass my Queen. Most people.would bite their tongue before time after time bringing up someone else's kid. You are out of line, stfu. Your advice is not worth taking, your arguments not worth following, and your words not worth reading.

He's a good example to use to compare to an uninvolved uto player. Someone who doesn't have knowledge of the politics and meta. When explaining the effects of how this game tends to be played makes little sense or is unappealing to a kid, it makes little sense and it.is unappealing to new players.

Ps, it's true, we take a lot of inspiration for our cores from Shai, undead especially.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000

Goodwitch, I don't understand your anger here, your spite, your attempts to hurt or embarrass my Queen. Most people.would bite their tongue before time after time bringing up someone else's kid. You are out of line, stfu. Your advice is not worth taking, your arguments not worth following, and your words not worth reading.

He's a good example to use to compare to an uninvolved uto player. Someone who doesn't have knowledge of the politics and meta. When explaining the effects of how this game tends to be played makes little sense or is unappealing to a kid, it makes little sense and it.is unappealing to new players.

Ps, it's true, we take a lot of inspiration for our cores from Shai, undead especially.

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Then why are you replying to her?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korp

Then why are you replying to her?

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It's an addiction, I'm a liar to myself really. Can I trust you.to handle her? When you two talk I can ignore.you both.

On topic, congrats BB :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000

Goodwitch, I don't understand your anger here, your spite, your attempts to hurt or embarrass my Queen. Most people.would bite their tongue before time after time bringing up someone else's kid. You are out of line, stfu. Your advice is not worth taking, your arguments not worth following, and your words not worth reading.

He's a good example to use to compare to an uninvolved uto player. Someone who doesn't have knowledge of the politics and meta. When explaining the effects of how this game tends to be played makes little sense or is unappealing to a kid, it makes little sense and it.is unappealing to new players.

Ps, it's true, we take a lot of inspiration for our cores from Shai, undead especially.

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check my posts. Not once did I accuse the kid of any wrong doings or cheating. Panthira is his mother and as such responsible.
I moved on to a different subject and your queen came rolling in here accusing me of collaborating with bart and steel lol
The only two constantly talking about the kid are you and pan.

I'll be more than happy exploring the reason why BB wasn't interested in at least attempting to take the crown. After also being the one to refuse to raze their acres gained from a policing action. Which if I remember correctly had a prior agreement attached to raze gained acres. And after getting war ready for the divinity war which divinity declined.

Though I find someone thats so keen and interested in following the rules as Goodwitch is is constantly breaking the forum rules. :))

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

. The deal crumbled because Astron from BB refused to also raze their acres off. Correct me if I got this wrong please.

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Astron did not play in BB last age.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sheister

So. To you it is all measured on single conflicts. But the game is majority played outside of conflicts. Thus, it is the kingdom and province management outside of conflict that is actually the most important part of the game. This is just as it is in all competitions. Basketball, soccer, football, etc. all of these games are more about what happens off the ball than on it.

I think you just need to open your eyes a bit.

Put it another way. You want to ignore over half the game to get to your true test.

We like to play the whole game.

Call us when you want to play utopia instead of checkers.

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Actually, I don't think you get what I was trying to say. The true measure of success here is putting two or more kingdoms on equal footing, setting a goal and trying to achieve that goal - whatever that goal may be.

Removing every or almost every variable allows for a true test of skill, either on a province level or a kingdom level.

Note, I never specifically said one versus one conflict is the only measure of success in my example; in fact I left it pretty open ended - I believe I even said whether its warring or an age of growth.

For example, let's take Sparta and BB and give them each the same twenty-five race and personality combinations and agree that land charts is how you want to measure success. Now its how well Sparta's twenty five plays against BBs twenty five over the course of the age. Toss in another stipulation - no CFs and you'll get a measure of skill and talent.

Utopia is about province management and teamwork. The game is how you get there - the reason why threads like these exist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sheister

Astron did not play in BB last age.

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I thought he spoke for the whole kd. Damn that's quite a trick to speak for the kd and not play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stealth4785

Actually, I don't think you get what I was trying to say. The true measure of success here is putting two or more kingdoms on equal footing, setting a goal and trying to achieve that goal - whatever that goal may be.

Removing every or almost every variable allows for a true test of skill, either on a province level or a kingdom level.

Note, I never specifically said one versus one conflict is the only measure of success in my example; in fact I left it pretty open ended - I believe I even said whether its warring or an age of growth.

For example, let's take Sparta and BB and give them each the same twenty-five race and personality combinations and agree that land charts is how you want to measure success. Now its how well Sparta's twenty five plays against BBs twenty five over the course of the age. Toss in another stipulation - no CFs and you'll get a measure of skill and talent.

Utopia is about province management and teamwork. The game is how you get there - the reason why threads like these exist.

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No. You don't understand the game. Everyone is on equal footing. Then freeze time ends and people start to compete. Some kingdoms suck at prep and making hits and fall behind. That is why you make no sense. You ignore most of the game to have a fantasy in which you have a chance to compete because you can't accept that you can't hang.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sheister

Astron did not play in BB last age.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

[12:49 PM, 8/2/2017]*U Coss:*Astron
[12:49 PM, 8/2/2017]*U Coss:*Just droo the land with div
[12:49 PM, 8/2/2017]*U Coss:*And then we all raze bart.s share
[12:50 PM, 8/2/2017]*U Coss:*What.s with all the talking and excuses
[12:50 PM, 8/2/2017]*U Coss:*U don.t want to drop? Fine
[12:50 PM, 8/2/2017]*U Coss:*But don.t ask others to fo it
[12:50 PM, 8/2/2017]*Han:*i aint dropping the acres now and i aint asking for anything
[12:51 PM, 8/2/2017]*Han:*why are we even invited to this grp chat for
[12:51 PM, 8/2/2017]*Han:*to piss each other off ?[/I]

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panthira

2017-07-26, 3:35 AM - ‪Mod‬: my council went inactive long ago in this age ��. nesta is pro for razing off and stop bothering with this age. is there any talk at all going on with CR?
2017-07-26, 3:36 AM - Bart: not really
2017-07-26, 3:36 AM - Bart: but u don't need a council to make decisions?
2017-07-26, 3:36 AM - Bart: simply remove those that are inactive until you have only active conucil members
2017-07-26, 3:36 AM - Bart: :D
2017-07-26, 3:36 AM - ‪Mod‬: we germans dont do dictatorship anymore since we got policed for it in the 1940ies
2017-07-26, 3:36 AM - Bart: :P
2017-07-26, 3:36 AM - Bart: I know at least 1 of ur council members is active enough
2017-07-26, 3:36 AM - Bart: to make these decisions
2017-07-26, 3:36 AM - Bart: even if Nesta isn't
2017-07-26, 3:36 AM - ‪Mod‬: astron?
2017-07-26, 3:37 AM - Bart: possibly!
2017-07-26, 3:37 AM - ‪Mod‬: ya my hope as well :P

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He may have not played in BB but apparently he was in the council and was carrying some weight.

If your best counter to the things I questioned is that astron wasn't playing in BB this age then that speaks volumes.

Volumes of what? You mean because people talk that therefore they are associated?

OK, so Binar played in BB too.

And Bart played in BB.

And so did half of active utopia....

Shai apparently advised an 11 year old kid in panthira's KD. Does shai now have responsibility for all strategies in panthira's KD?

In short, quite while you are behind as I said earlier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sheister

No. You don't understand the game. Everyone is on equal footing. Then freeze time ends and people start to compete. Some kingdoms suck at prep and making hits and fall behind. That is why you make no sense. You ignore most of the game to have a fantasy in which you have a chance to compete because you can't accept that you can't hang.

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I never stated I cared to compete or wish to compete. I said that the greatest achievement would be a level playing field, identical set ups, identical relations, then competing for a specific goal. I'm sorry you either don't or choose not to understand what I'm trying to explain.

Edit: Same start time, same freeze time, does not constitute equal footing. If two people run a race, one is a professional athlete, one is a child, just because they start at the same time does not mean they are on equal footing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stealth4785

I never stated I cared to compete or wish to compete. I said that the greatest achievement would be a level playing field, identical set ups, identical relations, then competing for a specific goal. I'm sorry you either don't or choose not to understand what I'm trying to explain.

Edit: Same start time, same freeze time, does not constitute equal footing. If two people run a race, one is a professional athlete, one is a child, just because they start at the same time does not mean they are on equal footing.

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You are whining that people can't compete on an equal footing, but they are at the start. Then they separate according to their skill.

You want the game to force mechanics so that more skilled people are held back.

Go read Harrison Bergeron

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sheister

You are whining that people can't compete on an equal footing, but they are at the start. Then they separate according to their skill.

You want the game to force mechanics so that more skilled people are held back.

Go read Harrison Bergeron

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

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Maybe we should have 2 land crown rankings; one where jefft can give the crown to his selected winner/friend, and then a real ranking in which the kingdom with the most land at the end of the age wins.

So BB wins the first crown and Spartans wins the second.

This seems fair. Everyone happy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sheister

You are whining that people can't compete on an equal footing, but they are at the start. Then they separate according to their skill.

You want the game to force mechanics so that more skilled people are held back.

Go read Harrison Bergeron

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

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If they are different skills they arent really on equal footing are they? .. Its absurd to believe just cause everyone starts at 400 acres they are all on equal footing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Korp

If they are different skills they arent really on equal footing are they? .. Its absurd to believe just cause everyone starts at 400 acres they are all on equal footing.

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No, in a competition all start at the same point and are separated by skill. Stop falling prey to the same mistakes of that other guy.... whatever his nick is.

Would you agree that in a race against Bolt, everyone starts at the starting line? Or should everyone else start 50 meters ahead of him in a 100 meter race? Or should Mr. Bolt have to run the race carrying a 100lb weight?