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Just had a discussion bout this idea...
if Obama loses it is sure that there will be much civil unrest - just like when his cousin lost in Africa...
If Obama wins - I expect to see the country in the midst of a class war of some sort - I know I am not looking forward to the changes he brings...
What happens when he tries to repeal the term limitations ?
our country is split in half already - how much will it take before all hell breaks loose and its another civil war?
I don't think it will be that bad.
I doubt it would happen in all seriousness.
Unless republicans and democrats have seperate, secret armies? Cant see the US Armed Forces turning against eachother over political values on economic reform, taxes, etc.
The mobility of the people is much better now than the 1860s.
People who really cannot stand the policies will just leave the country.
The worst case scenario I could foresee concerning the US elections is this:
Obama gets elected and then, some Neo nazi or KKK affiliated moron shoots him dead (or blows up his car or whatever).
Could widen the racial rift in the US quite a bit and cause lots of riots and unrest and the scary part is that it would take only one moron with a good opportunity to do it.
i really hope this is a big joke.
>i really hope this is a big joke.<
If you're talking about the possibility of Obama getting elected and then assassinated, its not a joke to me.
Given that he's in the lead, the possibility of him getting elected is pretty real and given the lingering racism in the US, their lax gun policies and their track record, the possibility of Obama getting shot if he's elected is very real also.
Sometimes, I worry about it and hope that he doesn't get too trusting and lax on the security if he's elected.
Despite all the thrash pro McCains throw at him, he seems like a nice guy and I really hate it when bad things happen to good people.
was talking about the thread. presidents being assassinated is hardly impossible. But i dont think itll lead to any revolts.
and yeah, he does seem like a nice guy.
are you kidding about no revolts??????????????
there will be serious problems no matter who is elected -
look at what happened in Africa when Obama's cousin did not get elected - Obama supported and encouraged his cousin in this revolt - thats a fact
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=77508
if obama loses there will be very similar riots/revolts - the likes of which will make the LA Riots look peaceful. I am positive that many people will rebel for a variety of reasons. Some over racism, some over fear of the "war mongers" some cuz they see everyone else doing it, etc. Let's face it obama fans have been brainwashed into thinking he is a god of some sort that will magically make everything better.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...out_obama.html
if obama wins - the true racists will come forth and protest - those of us who are afraid of obama will sit back at first and wait for whatever disasters he brings - but it wont be long til we cant take it anymore and some will become very vocal and angry - especially if he continues to call us names like bitter and selfish = obama is dividing the country not uniting us - if he wins he will cause a bigger rift between classes - what happens when he tries to institute some of his stupid plans like mandatory preschool for 2 year olds? how many parents will be in trouble with the law for not sending their child to school? how long will Americans tolerate asinine ideas like that before they revolt?
What happens when all the corruption in the voting unravels? what happens if it turns out that Obama really was born in Kenya? what happens if he pulls out of Iraq in January and we get invaded in February?
Trust me America will never be the same after this - this truly is the election of our life time - we will see what we have left when the dust settles!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxJ7t...eature=related
if that isnt scary what is?
Bluefaerydust
OMG LOOK WHAT HAPPENED IN AFRICA
that youre even retarded enough to compare the stability of america and africa scares me.
secondly, and i know this is gonna sound racist but it really isnt, "everyone" are "cousins" in africa.. the distance doesnt really matter youre still cousins.. in the same sense Bush and Queen Elizabeth (and all monarchs in europe) are cousins..
thirdly, according to your own country Odinga was the legitimate winner of the election. And vote manipulation in africa is unfortunately quite frequent so its hardly improbable that it took place in Kenya as well.
suppose Obama slipps up and says something incredibly stupid, which will make him lose the election (highly unlikely considering the election is only 2 days away (and has already started for some)) and this happens like on the day of the election, so that not everyone is not fully aware what has happened, then yeah civil unrest can happen.
people are stupid in times of crisis and the economy is a powerful point however one's perception is.
The race riots in places like Detroit during WW2 are an example of that. So yeah it could happen. McCain will then be the only person who can do something about it. He will need to take a very passive stance and wait for Obama to screw up.
the problem with this strategy is that it also has one huge defecit, namely that it will cause resentment under a large part of the population and later cause mistrust (something you really don't need as whatever person becomes president, he will have hard work cut out for him).
This problem stems from the fact that the U.S. voting system is so incredibly bad.
I am of course talking about the riots under Roosevelt, for those wondering
but massive riots is the worst thing that can happen. Civil war on the hand is not going to happen. For one thing the U.S. isn't a tribal society like Kenya.
That doesn't mean though that either of it is any good, on the contrary.
i hope you are right - but i think you are wrong -
i think that bad things are ahead for usa - no matter who wins - but i best hope lies in keeping obama out of the white house
then again neither was the U.S. a tribal society during the civil war as there were economic interests there that were the main cause, namely slavery.
thing is though that the difference was largely geographical located as most of the slaves were in the south.
today U.S. economy (and its economic interests) is much more diffuse than that, so that would be the final reason why riots are likely, but civil war is out of the question.
I completely agree with you there, but civil war is the one thing I don't see happening. The factors necessary for civil war to start just aren't present today.Quote:
i think that bad things are ahead for usa - no matter who wins
if you are thinking state against state like the last one - you are right
but have you considered just plain anarchy? left vs right?
very hateful and cruel things are being said and done this election - unlike any other in recent history!
Who is being hateful and cruel?
the general population for one - my cousin called me upset yesterday because a friend of hers for over 10 years has suddenly started bashing her and calling her names because she is not supporting obama
not to mention the signs that are posted all over the place bashing not only the candidates but the people who support them - or wont support them
and then you have the stuff like the guys in california hanging an effigy of palin on a noose...
Ah, so it's the pro-Obama crowd who's being hateful and cruel?
...and the guys in Kentucky hanging an effigy of Obama.
Sure there could be some local violence or something, but there won't be a civil war of any kind, that just doesn't happen in countries that are as stabilized as the US.
yeah the hatred is a two way street -
i hope you are right kain - but i do think it will get really ugly when the election is over - no matter who wins - and i wont be at all surprised if things escalate out of control
So because people will be violent, we shouldn't elect the black guy. Got it.
Nothing will happen.. people are to lazy to revolt. If they werent they wouldve revolted long time ago.
The more extreme parts of the political spectrum in the US are very hateful and cruel to each other. The politics of scandal and destruction in Washington is an example of this. But, I feel that I can speak for most US citizens in that we just tune those people out. We want government to solve our problems that we can not solve ourselves either individually or through other organizations. This means working together. Those that can not do that are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Maybe it's because they're already revolting.
and it is not just the U.S. that is going to suffer and see bad things happening
If this crisis doesn't get solved soon, it will get worse for sure. Most economists already predict a recession anyway. I think it may get worse than that.
The last time when i was in the U.S. (which was in summer 2002), we were driving through chicago(land). I saw a massive housing boom there. Huge houses and in massive amounts. I knew then that a crisis was coming for the U.S., i just couldn't predict when the bubble would burst. You might wonder how can you tell? Well the knowledge i have of the U.S. demographics and immigration policy tells me that the housing boom then, isn't normal. The divorce rate isn't that high and the population growth (from both immigration and births) also isn't high enough to attribute such a housing boom. So I knew things were wrong, but the only thing you can't tell is the time aspect. Well the bubble burst this year.
to solve it you need to do a couple of things.
First restore stability, that means government should intervene and take over the banks that are too big to let them fail.
Second restore trust, that means real transparancy, show the raw figures, not just the aggregated values. Also impose selective regulation to deal with the stupid and overtly risky greed.
Third lower taxes so that investment can recommence as that is the ultimate way to restore trust.
Trouble is that neither side is exactly giving the U.S. what it needs, McCain doesn't regulate enough. Obama regulates too much and raises taxes.
In the worst case it will mean that stagflation will increase (which i think is likely to happen, because the price of oil will get high again next summer and because of the high taxes Obama tends to impose and since it is likely Obama wins the election you can bet that will happen too). When that happens you will slump from a recession into a depression, because you can't restore trust properly. That will mean massive lay-offs and a worsening of the U.S. economy. That in turns means that Europe and Asia will also do bad. Europe because it can't invest into the U.S. no more and Asia because it can no longer sell the goods it wants to sell.
If the economic triade does bad, then so will the rest of the world. When that happens you can expect demagogues to appear in countries that aren't democratic, or which are young or fragile democracies.
The cards for that are already in place. Ahmejinedad although not in power today, can get it back. He has the connections with the Sharia police and the military intelligence that the clerics do not have. How do you know, well look at the bombs going off in Iraq in 2006, lots of the stuff was provided by Iran. Since he lives in the poorer streches of the city, he does well with the city poor. The man is manipulative and unscrupulous enough to get what he wants, which is one thing: power! Syria has no incentive to work with the U.S. and Europe so any negotations there are bound to fail, in fact they stand only to benefit from working with Iran rather than the west. The Sudanese government is practicing genocide on its own people. Libya nowadays isn't working against Europe, but Khaddafi is an opportunist. That means that only country standing in the way is Egypt. However Egypt already suffers from the high food prices and riots have already occured in the past, plus the islamist extremists there are politically strong and get increasing support. Pakistan has strife between a moderate and democratic powerbloc versus a rightwing military elite versus islamists extremists. Take away the middle bloc like has happened and you get two groups that will eventually fight eachother for power, one of which (the moderate one) is in a politically weak position, because of U.S. interference (which will only increase with Obama in office) and the trouble it has with India over Kashmir. Pull out of Iraq too early and the fragile stability there will also cease to be. Plus the south will get under the influence of Iran, which is even worse. The Kurds don't like Turkey, which just happens to be the only NATO ally in the region. OK then you might say then you shouldn't done the war in Iraq. Ok lets suppose you did that. Then Iraq would still be under Saddam, since he has no WMD (he already used them and has no more), then he'll have no hope of fighting countries like Iran and those two did war in the past. Also you can't resuplly Saddam like has happened with the last war between the two countries, because that would be political suicide, as remember he already invaded Kuwait. Lose the buffer that is Iraq in the region and Saudi Arabia will border not just one, but two evil regimes. Suppose one of the demagogues wants to war, which you can virtually count on, think of how you are going fight there in the first place. You have no ally in the region who wants to fight with you, nor do you have the resources necessary to do it with. That can only amount to one thing: trench warfare and that's the last thing you want. OK then you might wonder, why do anything at all? Not doing nything will mean those demagogues will not get opposed, that means they will stop at nothing. That means they will hurt Europe and eventually also the U.S. Sudan is getting aid from China so that means they are going to play a waiting game like the Soviet Union did in WW2. Combine that with the fact that Putin in doing what he is doing only acts to his self-interest and thus jams anything you want to do to improve the situation and you know you'll be in a very weak strategic position.
Its like what Pershing said at the end of WW1, why fight again.
So what can you do about it?
Well very little. However the best way to do anything is to take the approach Roosevelt took.
step 1 make public works to restore trust and confidence (not ideal in a recession considering the demographics, but in a depression it is a whole different matter)
(Obama wants health care, but think about it who are the prime takers of healthcare, they are elderly people) McCain wants to cut spending. That's not ideal either, but remember Roosevelts inauguration and compare it to what McCain said in the debate with Obama, there is pretty good similarity).
step 2 prepare an arsenal for the inevitable (don't do it too early, because then you end up as Italy, don't do it too late, because then you end up as England, do it the right time, like Germany)
step 3 take diplomatic action
Obama wants to talk without preconditions regardless of where they stand
McCain doesn't want to do what Obama is doing.
What you should do of course is talk to the neutral countries, if you can get them so far as to not aid the bad guys then you will have gained ground. You should also talk with your friends and allies, at least there you will gain support. However to talk with your enemies has no benefit at all, it is not going to convince them to quit anyway as they have nothing to gain from quitting and everything to gain from war. Now granted Obama is more charismatic, but his weakness is he is talking to the wrong people at the wrong time. He thinks he can solve it like he did in Chicago, but the world isn't Chicago.
Does that stop the inevitable? No, but McCain can at least controll the damage, Obama on the other hand can only maker it worse.
and that is ultimately because of 2 very important reasons. 1 he raises taxes and 2 he is isolationist
so war I see happening, but not civil war
history is a like a pokergame
same deck of cards just dealth differently
9/11 is your Frans Ferdinand
Iraq and Afghanistan is your WW1
the credit crisis is your 1929 crisis
odds say you are going to get the WW2 card too
that means you're going to end up as Britain after WW2, namely
broke and no longer the dominant power in the world
so who is going to be the next dominant power
I really hope it isn't going to be China
McCain is a better dealer than Obama in that respect
but one thing I don't see happening is civil war, that would be a card left to whoever is going to be the next Spain
freemehul
talking with your enemies have done plenty good, at least compared to not talking to them.
How fortunate for leaders, that the masses do not think." - Hitler
Come on if you think they are any different Obama and Mccain
you need to Get Real.
duopolies goverments are designed so the Ultra rich oligarthy has less to do in controlling both parties.
Your gettin same spagetti different label
They both smell the same, they both look the same, they both feel the same and its what my dog leaves out on your front lawn
Two things diebold cs&s run the eltronic voting machines thats rigged for starters.
Under the patriot Act (yuk) if their is civil disturbance or unrest Bush can take Executive powers and run the country just as Hitler did.
why look to people to fix the problem they deliberately created.
USA needs another Franklin D Rosevelt
Someone who is a real Patriot
lol
This thread is silly.
America reacting like a third-world nation? Hardly. Will a few nuts run around in the streets? Of course. Hell, I ran around in the streets the last three nights in a row, and that was just for candy.
But rebellion? Election day *is* rebellion. As Lincoln said, bullets can't outweigh ballots. We are in open political rebellion, and one party will win the war. Then we get to do it all over again if 4 year. :) Yay America!
As for assassination, all we can ever do is hope. But if the Secret Service can protect Bush from the Mohamed-muk-allah-lalla-la-bombalots I think they can handle billy-bob.
I feel (as many others do in the US) that if elected Obama will make history twice, first as the first Black to be elected President, and second as the first Black President to be assassinated.
Don't underestimate how angry many Americans are in general right now, between the war, gas prices, cost of living in general, the Wall Street Bailout, higher and higher taxes, etc and so forth. It wouldn't take much for rioting to start, possibly organized revolt even. I am glad I don't live in a major city, the trouble will likely start there first. Us folks out in the boonies are mostly well armed and able to hunt for food if worse comes to worse. I have a stream a few hundred yards from my home so water isn't a big problem, and I can hunt for food, so I'm not real worried. People in big cities are the ones who will be in hard times if rioting starts.
I really hope I am wrong but it doesn't look good no matter who wins the election. And with electronic voting machines which aren't secure and have no paper trail to double check the results who's to say that the elections are even honest anymore? Congress had hearing on the election security and found out that the electronic voting COULD be hacked and manipulated, fairly easily too. Doesn't that just make you feel good?
No one will even be sure the guy who get's elected is the guy that should have won. Great, and on top of that Obama may not even be valid candidate?
There was a suit filed in Federal Court questioning Obama's ability to run for president, it was thrown out on, of all things, that the attorney who brought the suit wasn't personally affected by the matter at hand! No ruling on the validity of the arguments just that it didn't personally affect the person who filed the suit, is that nuts or what?
If someone who cannot legally run for President gets elected doesn't that personally affect every American? An un-Constitutional President being in Office would affect every Man, Woman, and Child in this country I would think!
God Help Us, I see bad things coming no matter who wins. To fellow Americans, stock up on canned goods, butane lighters and ammo, you may need them all in the coming days.
(Butane lighters are for starting fires to cook your food on BTW, as electric service may be interrupted if rioting does break out)
Dont be daft, FairyDust.
LOL!
See? There's Billy-Bob now! Elect one of them-there colored folks and we'll all be back a hundred years of progress. Hunting our daily meat and having to watch Fox News on a small tv. We'll all be so scared, we'll have to pull the sheets up and over our heads just to think rationally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCvRfTngW5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSHsM9OzHGE
tell me that there wont be serious problems when this election is over....
there wont be serious problems when this election is over
it doesnt matter who the next president is
in all reality and full analyzation of the u.s. government, neither of these two men will be able to assume the power and ability to disrupt and change that bush had. unless there is another terrorist attack, that is.
if there is..., then you can bet that this country will explode with civil unrest, and the resulting collapse of government and economy that will follow, due to the fact that neither of the two men will have any idea what to do. probably because there is nothing that they can do.
democracy is a beautiful thing, but like all systems, it is doomed to failure, however efficient at slowing the progress that failure that it seems to be.
don't worry, there is nothing that you can do
LOL
I love this place. and I love that democracy and free speech are given to everyone, I don't know what I'd do without all the nutjobs running around. The happiness I get out of laughing at you is just priceless.
Being prepared for any eventuality is never crazy.
Sticking your head in the sand and hoping all will be rosey is crazy.
I hope for the best but try to prepare for the worst, it can never hurt having extra supplies on hand, and the means to defend oneself and family in any type of emergency whether natural or man made.
So if that makes me a nutjob so be it, at least my family and I will be the surviving nutjobs, what will you be if the $hit hits the fan???
See?
I realize it's immature, but I'd like to point out that I was right and you were an idiot. America break down because we elected a black guy? It was and remains insulting. We are better than that. We proved it.
obama won.. where is this civil war youre talking about..