Unlock ops for retal purposes

Currently TMs are just food for these orcs. If the dev's want to have any balance in this, I would recommend determining some method of unlocking ops only against provinces that have hit a TM. There is no reason a mage hit for 300 acres should not have an opportunity to LL those acres back simply because the total KD relations have not elevated enough. That does not mean the mage should be able to blanket ops on the other KD and honor whore, but rather should have a slightly elevated difficulty retaliatory op.

**edit** No I was not recently hit, lol. But as I watch my own KD farm out all these faes the thought occurred to me.

Wait for them to hit a few times more and you'll be able to do ops on them. I'm playing Orc this age so I'll be kind and share some insights about why I hit Faeries

1. Too often Faeries outgrow their kingdom which means there are no attackers in my range to threaten me
2. Too often they have horrible activity and build up way too much cash
3. Too often their defense just sucks. I've seen quite a few Faeries with 60 DPA or less when they should have had double that
4. I personally don't random for acres but if I did I'd be hitting people who won't hit back. Getting retalled doesn't really help you grow after all.

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Originally Posted by Landro

Wait for them to hit a few times more and you'll be able to do ops on them.

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Unless you're playing bad kids, that doesn't happen.

Damn landro u so genius

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Originally Posted by Sheister

Currently TMs are just food for these orcs. If the dev's want to have any balance in this, I would recommend determining some method of unlocking ops only against provinces that have hit a TM. There is no reason a mage hit for 300 acres should not have an opportunity to LL those acres back simply because the total KD relations have not elevated enough. That does not mean the mage should be able to blanket ops on the other KD and honor whore, but rather should have a slightly elevated difficulty retaliatory op.

**edit** No I was not recently hit, lol. But as I watch my own KD farm out all these faes the thought occurred to me.

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I agree, this needs to happen.

Disagree

So you could burn all manna and stealth on somebody? How is that balanced? It's not...

So listen to landro if you get hitt as a feary allot of times it is 95% your own fault.

It's their fault that the game gave faery no reasonable means of retaliation?

1 point on meter causes unfriendly.
Retaliatory "black ops" (ops requiring unfriendly relations) also have a fixed effect on relations.
Hostile meter does not reduce to zero on daily meter reduction unless there has been no hostile hits/ops for a few hours before the change of month.
Make hostile meter visible to all players, at all times, to avoid any confusion of whether a hit or op will move meter. Maybe even include a warning box on the sorcery/thievery/warroom pages stating "if we use an op now, the hostile meter will move x points"
Problem solved.

If someone attacks a kingdom, then they should deal with retaliatory ops immediately. There's no reason to allow people to make 3 free landgrabs before ops can retaliate.

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Originally Posted by Palem

It's their fault that the game gave faery no reasonable means of retaliation?

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Having some attackers in your kingdom to watch your back is a perfect means of discouraging hits.

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Originally Posted by Landro

Having some attackers in your kingdom to watch your back is a perfect means of discouraging hits.

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last i checked having to run the same strat in every kingdom because its the only way to be effective is not really a strat so much as a necessity and that makes the game boring.

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Originally Posted by Sheister

Currently TMs are just food for these orcs. If the dev's want to have any balance in this, I would recommend determining some method of unlocking ops only against provinces that have hit a TM. There is no reason a mage hit for 300 acres should not have an opportunity to LL those acres back simply because the total KD relations have not elevated enough. That does not mean the mage should be able to blanket ops on the other KD and honor whore, but rather should have a slightly elevated difficulty retaliatory op.

**edit** No I was not recently hit, lol. But as I watch my own KD farm out all these faes the thought occurred to me.

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Shouldn't your KD mates retaliate for you? Then if they retaliate your KD mates Voila Ops!

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Originally Posted by E_Boko

last i checked having to run the same strat in every kingdom because its the only way to be effective is not really a strat so much as a necessity and that makes the game boring.

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Should we make it so an all explorer strat works too in which provinces run 0tpa/0opa/0wpa but they have a means of defending themselves using defense? This is sillyness In war you need some kind of offense, it is a war game. (despite all the peace at the top) Next thread I see that makes me think of Faery circles all faery KD i am taking some acres from them! This is a threat!

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Originally Posted by E_Boko

last i checked having to run the same strat in every kingdom because its the only way to be effective is not really a strat so much as a necessity and that makes the game boring.

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Requiring attackers in each kd to defend t/m should be perfectly acceptable so long as hits are required to start war. As soon as t/m ops move the meter i'll agree that requiring attackers is a bad concept.

goodz, in an ideal world it would work that way. Again, this is not happening to me. But I am watching all the faery players in ghettos getting fed on and its really sad. I think they need to be able to do something so that a new player choosing faery does not get frustrated out of the game. Land lust, fireball and amnesia (not the rest perhaps) should be available as retal ops. Landlust retals for TM/conquest/raze, fireball retal for massacre, amnesia retal for learns. No MS, no chastity, no lightning strike, fools gold, etc. Three spells available for retal. You can even limit their duration of availability, when hit with a TM/CQ/Raze, province gains 12 hrs of access to the appropriate counter spell, and ONLY the appropriate counter spell, and ONLY against the kingdom from which it received the attack.

You want hostility spells open after 1 hit? Not goign to happen folks.

Why make it more complicated than it needs to be? Just give unfriendly for one hit, problem solved.

I don't know why attackers feel like they deserve to get free hits without fear of t/m retaliation. Implementing this could reduce the amount of vulturing on small kingdoms in the game, while keeping things the way they are doesn't add anything important.

well that is a decent point nooblet.

I disagree with this suggestion. The problem here isn't with ops or hits, it is a problem with faery as a race. It's overpowered for t/m and worthless for everything else.

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Originally Posted by Sheister

goodz, in an ideal world it would work that way. Again, this is not happening to me. But I am watching all the faery players in ghettos getting fed on and its really sad. I think they need to be able to do something so that a new player choosing faery does not get frustrated out of the game. Land lust, fireball and amnesia (not the rest perhaps) should be available as retal ops. Landlust retals for TM/conquest/raze, fireball retal for massacre, amnesia retal for learns. No MS, no chastity, no lightning strike, fools gold, etc. Three spells available for retal. You can even limit their duration of availability, when hit with a TM/CQ/Raze, province gains 12 hrs of access to the appropriate counter spell, and ONLY the appropriate counter spell, and ONLY against the kingdom from which it received the attack.

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1. You have no idea how devastating it is to be on the receiving end of 20x Amnesia.
2. Faerie isn't a good choice for beginning players but high def elites and ToG draw those new players towards Faerie anyway.

The problem is Amnesia having way too devastating an effect in the long term.

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Originally Posted by jdorje

I disagree with this suggestion. The problem here isn't with ops or hits, it is a problem with faery as a race. It's overpowered for t/m and worthless for everything else.

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^^this

Faeries should not get ops after one hit. Maybe look at next age introducing

"-X% loss of acres from Traditional March in normal relations

Making patches doesn't acknowledge why faeries have problems... no military means of retaliation by themselves. Which is probably how it should be, since this is a team game, and you pay for the best defense and t/m abilities by having no offense to speak of.

The only reasonable means of retaliation for a faery is to be able to landlust back, but if a faery could LL without relations it leads to Bad Things. As to the retal value of using purely destructive ops, it's really a matter of how willing a faery is to blow their mana on something like meteors and amnesia at no profit to themselves. Probably a graduated scale to open up particular ops is in order, with the less destructive operations (Vortex, LL, FG, LS) available with only one hit, and pure destructive operations only available after more hits.

This would also apply to any faery, whether or not they're hit directly, and any other province with t/m potential. I hate the idea of giving one race a blatant patch because of complaints. In pricinple, though, if someone wants to make a hit, they shouldn't get essentially free hits with no retaliation. There is no need to make an obtuse rule that only an attacked faery gets retal ops.

I posted a suggestion to Give T/Ms some way to retal trads.
http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...2482-T-M-Retal


Oh and Sheister, Dropping an Amnesia wave on somebody for 1 trad is suicide. 10x Amnesia would leave your target with about 19.7% of his sci. 28.1% of his sci would be permanently destroyed and the remaining 52.2% would slowly return. I can assure you that if somebody pulled that on me or one of my buddies for a single hit, I'd rally my kingdom and raze kill the fool.

sure, but then there are relations at least!
:D

You guys are missing the entire point, and this suggestion is terrible.

A faery does not need a means to retal anything, his teammates do that for him.

Dont have any attackers in range to hit back for your oversized faery? Your fault.
picked a setup of 25 faeries and have no attackers at all in range of anyone in the other kd? Your fault.

Stop making suggestions to boost faery, its been overpowered as fcuk in warring kds for 3 ages now and still is. Needs a nerf badly.

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Originally Posted by nooblet

Why make it more complicated than it needs to be? Just give unfriendly for one hit, problem solved.

I don't know why attackers feel like they deserve to get free hits without fear of t/m retaliation. Implementing this could reduce the amount of vulturing on small kingdoms in the game, while keeping things the way they are doesn't add anything important.

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It would stagnate the crap out of the game. I wouldn't even hit unless waving a kd for hostile. EVER. If it meant the other KD instantly got ops. God it would be terrible. I almost think 7 points makes more sense then 5 because the number of random targets around is less. But 1 Point would be terrible. Just terrible.

To balance it being 1 poitn you could do this:
All ops currently limited to unfriendly are now limited to hostile :P