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Hi everyone, this is the first time I play for this job. May I know what is the best strategy after out of protection period ?
Another question is currently I have 2-3TPA, roughly about 750 land,but how come I still fail when I performed stealing action?
Best strategy is a debatable thing. Are you going for thief/mage?
There are several reasons for failure. The province may have clear sight spell on, may have watch towers, or you may be over sending on thieves. Then there is the issue of whats your tpa versus your target.
Hi Dolgil. Yes, Im going for thief/mage. Could you give me some suggestion on it ?
I try to steal some of the human race, and their land and net worth is more or less the same with me. The difference between me and the target is around 10-50 land. At the moment I got 2tpa and I did cast invisibility when I performed the action. I have send 1/3rd of my total thief to steal the target. Could you tell me anyway to improve the success rate or anything that I did wrongly here?
2 tpa is ur issue, get ~5 raw 20% td's and good sci. Even higher raw tpa if you aiming for t/m.
May I know what is 5 raw ?
Get about 3000-3500 thieves as a minimum (4-5 times the number of your acres).
Read the guide (especially the thievery formulas).
Good luck!
(you need about 3-4 times more thieves than your target to have a good success rate. try to target people that have about the same networth as you do)
To steal gold: first, you do a syp on thrones. Then you take a look at the gold of your target. Seend about 1/1000 as many thieves as the target has gold (if he has 1 million, send 1 thousand)
If I get 3-5 times thief, then I might facing less pleasant, thus I would have a lot of job left. How can I overcome this problem?
Spy on throne? I have to perform spy on throne on enemy first? How many thief should I send ?
I should concern on target net worth or their land? Some have same land but different net worth compare to me, some have same net worth but different land as well.
*how many thief should send for spy on throne?
Sorry for my bad English.
Thanks a lot..really appreciate every comment.
Having full employment is not a big issue. You can get some BE and Pop science to offset the increased draft rate and lower peasant count, but having 100% BE giving you a (just pulling numbers out of the air here) 30% mod on 2 raw TPA is not as good as having 80% BE giving you a 24% mod on 5 raw TPA. 2.6 TPA vs 6.2 TPA
For a Spy on Throne (commonly abbreviated SoT) you can get maximum accuracy if you send 20% of your thieves. I.e. if you have 100 send 20, 1000 send 200, etc. For anyone who did not take the Tactician personality the maximum accuracy you can get is +/-3% (all numbers range between 97% and 103% of the actual values, and not all numbers are off by the same % or in the same direction. I.e. target has 1000 soldiers and 1,000,000 gc. SoT can say 1030 soldiers and 970,000 gc)
30% mod on 2 raw TPA is not as good as having 80% BE giving you a 24% mod on 5 raw TPA. 2.6 TPA vs 6.2 TPA
May I know what is 30 % MOD, 80% BE?
He's talking about the effectiveness of your thieves' dens. We did not mention, but you supposed to have about 20% (15% if rogue).
Don't worry about Building effectiveness. Most players have it around 70-85% the whole age. As they are training more military, so should you (it's an arms' race).
Spy on throne helps you determine whether your target has any resources to steal. It also helps you learn by practive (what kind of people have best resources, what defense/offense people have). As you're obviously quite new to the game, I suggest that you do a lot of Spy on Thrones. If you send 20% thieves, you get best accuracy, but also you lose more if you fail. When attacking someone, accurate information is very important. If you're just trying to figure out what your target has, you can send low amount of thieves too (it doesn't really matter if target has 900k or 1 mill gold).
When you think someone has a lot of resources, try to steal it.
Most thievery operation has an optimum amount of thieves to send, you can learn it by practice, or you can read the guide.
It's a precise explanation. Thank you everyone. Your help is greatly appreciated.
uTools (firefox/chrome) addon has this feature that auto-fills how many thieves you should normally send for each ops. Was pretty useful for me as a new player last age, it might help you also. You might want to look at previous threads about how many thieves to send for various ops. Here's one post about SoM + SoT for attacking: http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...1#post15178683
Also, download Angel and get used to it, as it has this "Thievery Calculator" that is quite useful. You can set Angel to pop up the Thievery Calc when you ctrl-A copy an enemy's SoT. It then tells you how many thieves to send to steal various resources (gcs, runes, food).
Just make sure you don't use angel for anything else, it's unhealthy.
Do you still have that excel formatter? Uploading it to googledocs should work, I think....
I have some up on googledocs, link is in some other topic.
Can show me the link ? I did download the utopia, but I still dont understand how's the thief calculator works.
Can anyone tell me how to increase the honor ? As well as when I steal the target, should I concern the land or should I concern the net worth ? Which should I compare when I perform stealing ?
my excel isnt about thief calculation, its sot+som
its in the CB thread
Ok get it.
Can anyone tell me how to increase the honor ? As well as when I steal the target, should I concern the land or should I concern the net worth ? Which should I compare when I perform stealing.
Forget honor. Work together with your kindom (other T/M's + attackers) and follow your plan. Any plan is good at first. Later on, after a few wars, you guys will realize what are the best ways to use mana and stealth.
Again, the key is to work together.
Incidentally, that's one of the best ways to gain and keep honor too (your honor lasts as long as your attackers fare well and you're winning wars.
op and TM targets closer to your networth. So if there are two chain targets, hit the one closer in networth.
Success with harder ops gives more honor than lesser ops. For example, MS blanket would give more than storms blanket, so if your mages are good, you should do MS first.
Above all, work with your kingdom. If you go for pure honor and ignore orders, you are going to miss out on honor by losing the war.
Network... gain per theft op is directly correlated with relative nw.
Relative Size = MIN ( Target Networth / Self Networth , Self Networth / Target Networth) + War Bonus
Let's say you send 1k thieves to "rob the vault", you would expect 1k * 40 gcs * 0.9 (resource loss) = 36k gc per op, given that target has a lot of gcs and has the same nw as you (relative size=1). If the target has 70% of your nw (your 100k nw vs 70k nw, or 100k nw vs 143k nw), then you'd get 70% of 36k gc per ops. Straight forward with thievery.
http://speedcap.net/img/02ca12b74b0c...c/4a4a8869.png
http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...hieves_to_Send
Here's my spreadsheet version of Angel's Thievery calc. Enjoy ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 7moonstar
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...RLWp1bXc#gid=1
Formulas from the wiki link above, might be (probably is) outdated for this Age. Change the values for pink cells, leave the rest alone.
Thank you csarmi, tamle, lastunicorn and others that given me so many advice. Greatly appreciated.
Yesterday I try to steal on human race, I found that some of the human has watchtower, thief den and some of them are knight, so it become a difficulties for me to get large amount of money. May I know other than this race, what is the best race to steal to get huge return ?
At the moment I got 820 land and 105k net worth..What type of race and what range of net worth/ land I should steal ?
7moonstar: The best targets to steal from are those with low watchtowers, low tpa and lots of resources. Actually, people who haven't been active for a while because players tend to use up their resources. keep doing spy on thrones' and you'll get a feel for it.
2/3 - 3/2 your size
it's a matter of player style whether they have watchtowers or high tpa
watch the personality it gives a good ide on what they're up to
you can figure out their tpa by doing an 'infiltrate' but that costs 3% stealth (ask an attacker in KD to do it for you)
Faeries: almost always T/M's. Sometimes (very rarely) you can find a pure mage with lots of resources. In that case, he's still likely to have a decebnt thievery defense. Very low chance to pay off, but if you have a KD mate to infiltrate, worth 2-3 infiltrate tries.
Elves: they are often mages (+attacker), sometimes T/M's, sometimes just pure attackers. Better chances than the last case because much fewer are the T/M's. Often good for stealing runes.
Halflings: most of them are thieves. Some (sages, warriors and such) are not even thieves and they rely on their race to scare you off (who would try to rob a halfer). You can hit the jackpot if you find such a player (my biggest steals were usually with halfers who had tons of gold and **** tpa). These are rare, however, but if you hit one, good gain.
Humans: they have a thievery bonus. Rogues and Sages are often thieves.
Avians: the same as humans
Orcs, Undeads, Dwarves: often good targets. watch out for dwarf mages and any rogues. Dwarves have Clear Sight spell too (25% autofail for you = BAD)
Another precise explanation. Thank you so much.
Oh yea, may I know how to remove the ''active'' fortified stance ?
Some people taught me that Spy on military just need 7 thief...Is it truth ? And if I perform survey, how many thieves I should send? 20%+1 or just 7 or 100 thieves ?
If I'm remembering correctly then Survey is pretty much accurate no matter how many you send.
Also, on the Spy on Military, the only thing that is accurate no matter how many you send is the away armies. Defense at home still needs 20%+1 for full +/-3% accuracy (unless you're tactician in war)
your monarch changes stances. It can only be done every 24 hours.
Ok, I get it. Thanks everyone.