Mage Next Age

My goal for next age is to be a mage. However, I have never played this role before, so I would like some advice.

What's better for being an unbreakable mage? Faery or Elf? Additionally, if I'm interested in getting some decent thievery work in and resisting ops like AW, what's my best option?

I'm kind of torn between Elf Mystic or Faery Rogue. I like the Elf for the 30% wpa and the 5 defense spec unit. But I like the Faery for the access to all ratial spells plus inherent extra mana per tick. Combined with rogue that has all thievery ops and extra stealth per tick.

I don't plan to do a lot of attacking like I did when I played Halfling Rogue, but I want something that will have the most defense to prevent attacks. I'm planning on running on the higher end of my kingdom, if I'm not the largest province.

Suggestions of Race/Personality and strat to go with it?

Will you use rogue ops if you pick fae/rogue?

Is it required that you be able to cast MS? Im guessing not from your post.

If no to both i would likely go with faery/sage. Elf merchant is significantly stronger than an elf could manage this age however. Would still tip my hat towards faery as you do not need to sacrifice a personality for ToG that provides no other benefits if not attacking

Rogue is only good if you are willing to use a substantial number of them, your goal is strictly war wins, and you have enough of an ability to survive the rough early war where Rogue is at a substantial disadvantage. Faery is a better superthief than Halfer, at least at the outset of war.

The best defenders will probably be Fae/Sage, Fae/WH, Elf/WH, Elf/Mystic, Elf/Merchant, in that rough order. Bump up Elf/Merchant a place if the kingdom lacks many races that can ToG. Elf/Mystic imo is the most effective pick if you are only using 3-5 t/m type provinces... even if you appear to have too many MSers, it is helpful to have backups in case one Mystic gets trashed, and the extra mana is good for ops besides MS. It might not be the best on paper, but it is the easiest to operate and still effective enough. I wouldn't want so few t/ms in a warring kingdom but ymmv.

I feel like this question can go in here too... I'm considering elf mystic as an A/M. I am very active, and my goal is to keep up pitfalls and chastity on key targets, then help out with MS and FB and whatever else. I would also consider war hero or merchant, but I'm worried about not having the extra mana per tick. Can anyone please provide some advice on this matter? I'm also kinda considering Elf/Tactician as an a/m, so that I can keep CS up to protect myself from pesky thieves.

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Originally Posted by Elanesse

What's better for being an unbreakable mage? Faery or Elf? Additionally, if I'm interested in getting some decent thievery work in and resisting ops like AW, what's my best option?

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You wont be UB so concentrate about being useful mage. Myst work good for elf/FA.

Feary would be the pick i think. It offers more allround capabilities as a t/m and higher damage output then elf. Due to the access to all racial spells feary should have slightly better defence than elf. If you don't need to cast meteor showers there isnt much reason to pick mystic. Rogue ops are very circumstancial, if your kingdom does not use them much there is not much reason to pick rogue. If you dont need mystic and rogue, sage or warhero are the options that are left. Sage is proberbly the best. Also Feary can support the kd econ better then elf due to ToG.


As far as AW goes, watchtowers are a necesity if the enemy runs rogues :)

Elf/Tactician blows. CS is not worth losing that much economy and damage output (reduced attack time is basically worthless since other tacticians will still beat your armies home).

The extra mana for Mystic is quite useful. Bear in mind that just because you're a mage doesn't mean you have to or should cast nothing but offensive magic, as a defensive province would at the least want to have IA, FL, NB, LP, Patriotism, and Magic Shield active at pretty much all times once they start growing, and probably wants MP and Fury. The full set of defensive spells cuts deeply into the mana available for casting, but does not take up a lot of runes. If your kingdom is good then rune supply issues can be resolved anyway, but sometimes there will be shortages.

Elf tactician IS a good pick, but since you are on here asking about it you lack the knowhow(and likely the activity) to use it properly in war. Mystic will offer you greater landsaving effect and war hero/sage/merchant are easier to run.

Me? I said in the post that I'm very active (online basically every minute i'm awake haha, work an office job so I just leave this open in the background =P). I just played the age as avian, and I tried to get minimum 3 attacks per day (I always led the war summary in uniques). I was just looking for advice. I've just never played an a/m yet. I've only been full attacker and a/t so far in my short utopia career.

Also, I became king of my kingdom 1.5 ages into starting to play this game again (although I quit playing in about 2007). That makes me the best player ever right? Haha.

For those of you that don't have much of a sense of humor, I'm just kidding. I know I'm far from the best, that's why I'm asking for advice.

short answer;

if playing in small kingdom and have few spaces for a mage, elf/mystic is the easiest, with faery/mystic being okay.

if you have space for a lot of elf and faery provinces, then some of those elf/faery can pick war hero.

if you can spare 6 faeries and still have enough mystics to keep up MS, Faery/Rogue is pretty nice, but fa/rogue is way more of a thief than a mage.

Probably go Elf Mystic. Talking with my KD mates, we already have two running Faery Rogue next age. We need to MS people.

Anyone have a good build strat for this?

I have heard some folks say to run 20% guilds, is that too much for a Mystic? Do I only need 10% for max effectiveness?

Both elf/my and faery/ro are nice choices. People run lots of guilds to get wpa up fast. You could run 50%-60% after the end of your first war for example (in the 4 days of eowcf) to pump wpa fast.
Now at the start of the age depending on your kd's growth plan you could run 20%-30% for an early boost. The problem though in first war is rune production. You can either overbuild towers to support your spells or do an early investment on magic sci. Pick what to do with your kd mates and all plan together.
Now the usual guilds for mystic in wars is from 12%-15%. You get max durations on spells and compensate for lower than 100% building effectiveness.

Also dont use one build, adjust your build depending on who you go to war. If there are many rogues for example go for higher wts otherwise you could use some other buildings and do attacks as hybrid. Elf elites are nice for that now.

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Originally Posted by Elanesse

Probably go Elf Mystic. Talking with my KD mates, we already have two running Faery Rogue next age. We need to MS people.

Anyone have a good build strat for this?

I have heard some folks say to run 20% guilds, is that too much for a Mystic? Do I only need 10% for max effectiveness?

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In war build you will want 13% guilds if playing TM 15-16% if attacking. Outside of war you can be running anywhere up to 70% depending on how badly you were hit in war and how long until the next.

No build strat can be offered without knowing whether you will attack or not

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Originally Posted by crease

In war build you will want 13% guilds if playing TM 15-16% if attacking. Outside of war you can be running anywhere up to 70% depending on how badly you were hit in war and how long until the next.

No build strat can be offered without knowing whether you will attack or not

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Good point, thank you. I do NOT plan on attacking unless it is to mop up a chain target. So I will train some elites, but mostly, I'll be running d-specs. Besides the obvious need for MS and mage damage, my main goal is going to be to carry enough thief power to steal effectively and run some NS. So I was thinking 15% TDs and 5.5 raw tpa or so.

For others who have mentioned it, I do know what I need to do for recovery in EOWCF, I probably should have clarified I need a decent war strat. I'm sure I'll figure it out through experimentation, but any tips you have would be great.

Thank you!

Looking at something along the lines of:

10 homes
8 farms
15 forts
13 guilds
18 towers
20 TD's

This leaves 16% for WT/gs. WT usually the normal option, but if you are against a heavy attacker kd with no rogues then gs may be beneficial. Again if you believe you wont be chained and there are no rogues, then by all means throw in a few more homes and some banks.

Edit if up against more than 4 rogues, then consider dropping forts/TDs to 10 and 15 respectively and getting 26% WT

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Originally Posted by Elanesse

Good point, thank you. I do NOT plan on attacking unless it is to mop up a chain target. So I will train some elites, but mostly, I'll be running d-specs. Besides the obvious need for MS and mage damage, my main goal is going to be to carry enough thief power to steal effectively and run some NS. So I was thinking 15% TDs and 5.5 raw tpa or so.

For others who have mentioned it, I do know what I need to do for recovery in EOWCF, I probably should have clarified I need a decent war strat. I'm sure I'll figure it out through experimentation, but any tips you have would be great.

Thank you!

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If you go rogue, you should be ready to use it- that means props and AW. NS is completely possible as Faery/mystic, if that's more the type of thief ops you're looking to do. As far as being UB, faery/mystic with good TPA comes close, although no prov is ever truly "UB".

Elf/mystic works better as an a/M with strong mage ability, faery/mystic works better as t/M.

By the sounds of it, I would suggest faery/mystic. Faery/sage IMO simply isn't worth it as you miss out on the +1 mana per tick in war, MS, and double guild effectiveness (all three are HUGE for a t/M) in exchange for some relatively modest sci improvements. If you're going to be in a consistently warring kingdom, you probably won't have much time to pump science, anyway.

A hint- in war, it's most effective if you consistently stay below 60% mana, as that reduces spell mana costs. As faery/mystic with (incredible) 5 mana/tick, to start with you'll probably need to run 35+% towers to pull this off and use all your mana effectively. As you get channeling science you can reduce this, but trust me, you will need far more towers to start off with than you realize.

There's another aspect about elf/my vs fae/my - elves, from my understanding, are harder to chain effectively due to -50% defensive losses. I'm certainly aware that both fae and elf should switch to attacking when/if they do get chained to a low enough acreage, and that this task will be easier for fae due to 4/5 elites. But it should be harder to get an elf to that acreage to begin with, as they don't "drop into range" of people down the chain as easily.

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A hint- in war, it's most effective if you consistently stay below 60% mana, as that reduces spell mana costs.

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Never heard of it.

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Originally Posted by Andurilas

Never heard of it.

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It's true, though. Observe spell costs when you're in 80-100% and 30-50% mana ranges.

Keep in mind he just means Mana costs (NOT rune costs). Staying below 60% mana still doesn't mean much, since you will still only have 60% mana to play with, as opposed to 80-100% mana (even though the costs are higher). Of course, I play in ghetto land where people don't sabotage wizards (I don't know if any kingdom does, actually).

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Originally Posted by Anatak1989

Keep in mind he just means Mana costs (NOT rune costs). Staying below 60% mana still doesn't mean much, since you will still only have 60% mana to play with, as opposed to 80-100% mana (even though the costs are higher). Of course, I play in ghetto land where people don't sabotage wizards (I don't know if any kingdom does, actually).

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Its very frequently used in competitive warring kds. Using SW/BT neeutralises a TM advantage a prov has, and is 1000% more useful if done on a prov that nm chains or once you figure out enemy sleep schedule, just before they wake up.

Just from experience, do you think a faery can consistently keep MS on attackers? This age as Elf/Mystic even with 110% sci and 5 raw wpa I failed half or more of my MS attempts in my last war. Faeries would have to sacrifice 1.5 pop to even equal that. The higher you go the more faery has to sacrifice to compete with elves wpa-wise.

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Originally Posted by Bukharistan

Just from experience, do you think a faery can consistently keep MS on attackers? This age as Elf/Mystic even with 110% sci and 5 raw wpa I failed half or more of my MS attempts in my last war. Faeries would have to sacrifice 1.5 pop to even equal that. The higher you go the more faery has to sacrifice to compete with elves wpa-wise.

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I'd also be very interested in the details, could someone who's actually played a fae/my give a breakdown of their success rates? Thanks in advance :)

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Originally Posted by Exxo

I'd also be very interested in the details, could someone who's actually played a fae/my give a breakdown of their success rates? Thanks in advance :)

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A competent faery should be able to negate the magic bonus from elf fairly easily through science. ToG allows you to stock a good chunk of gold to blow on high science once oow. It allows a little more space for wizards(from pop/income/thief science) and better channelling science (saving on towers)

It does also have access to Mages fury.

If your primary concern is MS than Elf for sure.
Science and libraries are really essential for a mage to be effective by mid-age, regardless of approach. 110% sci is not particularly strong by late age... attackers that stay around 2k acres all age can have something close to that, maybe better.

Also by mid-age, Faery can outpace Elf's science investment, which closes the gap between Faery and Elf wpas, at least until the point where Learn attacks become extremely profitable. That extra science also enables more population and so forth, so the Faery winds up being a lot more versatile and making more money.

Elves also have Mages Fury so that evens out. I agree that pumping with faeries might be easier, but then again faeries pay more than double for training their military so that might even out a bit.

About sci, if you're not in a top-KD it's very hard to hold onto it (precisely because the aforementioned top-KDs feed on you). Our strat nowadays is to not spend books while OOW, just pile them up and put em into sci once war starts.

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Originally Posted by Exxo

It's true, though. Observe spell costs when you're in 80-100% and 30-50% mana ranges.

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But in war it's 2% per spell regardless, right?

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Originally Posted by Andurilas

But in war it's 2% per spell regardless, right?

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Not that I've noticed.

It seems to deduct about 5% per op when you're at 100%. Then it lowers down to about 2% when you are under a certain percentage like they've said. So logistically speaking:

If you have 100% it will looks something like this, 100, 95, 90, 86, 82, 78, 74, 71, 68, 65, 62, 59, 57, 55, 53. Those aren't exact numbers, but just assume my random numbers are exactly right, you get about 20 ops below 50% and about 15 above it for a total of 35 ops if you have full mana or stealth (considering it's the same stuff for thieves). If you get 4 mana a tick, then after 10 ticks you have 50% again. Better use your 20 ops here, and wait 10 more ticks and get another 20, 40 total ops, then to wait a full 20 ticks and only get 35 ops.

mana costs are 2/3 the normal cost in war.

the mana cost varies, with more difficult spells taking more mana and fails taking 50% (?) more. at around 40% mana, even fails of the most difficult spells should only cost 2%.

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Originally Posted by Bukharistan

Just from experience, do you think a faery can consistently keep MS on attackers? This age as Elf/Mystic even with 110% sci and 5 raw wpa I failed half or more of my MS attempts in my last war. Faeries would have to sacrifice 1.5 pop to even equal that. The higher you go the more faery has to sacrifice to compete with elves wpa-wise.

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I had good success with 7-7.5 raw wpa and about the same 110% science. EAsy enough to fit in as a feary once you get a little honor. it was even enough to meteor weaker fearies and FB elves.

It's 5%/op for self spells... And 2%/op for offensive spells..... You must be casting your defensive spells first.... Also if you fail a cast it costs an additional point of mana....

Just to dumb it down for you... If your playing pure mage go elf/mystic.... If your playing t/m go Faery mystic.....

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Originally Posted by Blindman

I had good success with 7-7.5 raw wpa and about the same 110% science. EAsy enough to fit in as a feary once you get a little honor. it was even enough to meteor weaker fearies and FB elves.

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This is when you know youve overdone it on the wpa.

at some point it's better to just accept that some ms will fail -_-