Please use this thread to comment on the potential changes, which you can see here. As always, please be polite and constructive to each other.
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Please use this thread to comment on the potential changes, which you can see here. As always, please be polite and constructive to each other.
Here's my question: What is blizzard? Is it kinda like Fog?
Fun changes last age. Why nerf everything now?
Avian Tactician looks like it could be bloody deadly... to its players....
A-A, not falling for that trap again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon
Will post more later...but first thoughts are
Drop orc elites to 11 and undead to 10
Otherwise it will be a repeat of this age where und/orc are the only real viable attacking races for warring kds. Especially considering faery def nerf to 8
Edit: also... Are scientists now a part of overall population? Am I missing the specifics somewhere?
I would go further and take it down to 10 and 9 tbh, a shave to offense wouldn't be such a bad thing all things considered.
I don't understand why nerfing every possible t/m race. Elves lost -def losses, faeries lost 1 def on the elite but heavy attacking races got buffed(the warrior +1 gen)?! smercjd suggestion is fine. It's time to lower -75 losses on und to -50%.
Also why the rogue lost TDs bonus? Better nerf it don't completely remove it from the perso.
My guesses:
New type of attack: Abduct (replaces learn)
Science will be earned by scientist who will live in buildings of specific types [Maybe libraries]
Abduct will capture scientists
Scientists will be same like wizards [libraries <=> guilds and SPA <=> WPA]
Scientists will(maybe... this is a wild guess) have multipliers for various type of effects based on SPA.
Offense was a little on the high side this age. Honestly you may be right on 10/9...Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon
A lot depends on this new science. Are they a part of population now? If so halfling may have a worse science nerf than orc...
Not a bad guess! I was guessing something along those linesQuote:
Originally Posted by TreasonGuy
Boring as hell so far. If that's actually a -10% pop on halfling they are donezo
Avian losing +1 general is bad, losing more of the already lacking offense is a bigger problem than the ability to send 5 armies, it was already the only attacker who couldn't reach mid->late game T/Ms without running suicidal drafts/builds.
I could probably go with that change if Undeads and Orcs lost 1 off each on their elites, or buff Avian up to 10.
Well Halfling sucks now, that's for sure... no way they can be competitive with -10% pop and one of the weakest elites. Get rid of the population penalty and they're okay, not even great.
Orc and Undead offenses need be to dropped by 1pt each. They're currently way too strong.
Avian pretty meh. Would be better if they gain 1pt offense on their elites and +2pt ospec but lose access to warhorses, that way they're close to their current offense levels but don't need ponies to get there and all that implies.
Dwarf and Human remain non-viable for most kingdoms, and will remain so as long as orc and undead offenses are so overpowering.
Changes are very unbalanced and make very few combinations actually fun.
Races:
Avian - Faster but the loss of a general makes them actually weaker than last age. Only viable pers on avian will be Warrior (as it was this age).
Dwarf - Insignificant buff for specs. Still super weak.
Elf - Removal of its defensive losses removes it as a viable bank/hybrid (with tact). Slight buff to wpa but that's kinda meh. Will now be as squishy as halfers and fae and nothing to make up for it really.
Fae - Already struggled vs heavy attackers and was unplayable in most of the warring tier due to expensive elites - Now even worse with a 11% reduction to their off.
Halfling - Worst race with these changes. -10% population with crappy military. Can't be run as a hybrid nor TM due to low pop and bad defense. Bad attacker too.
Human - Nice buff, makes em very capable banks and turtle attackers. Would be very strong if run as a tact turtle-attacker. Other personalities aren't as viable though.
Orc - As strong as this age, by far best pick for attacker.
Undead - As strong as this age, strong pick for attacker.
Personalities:
Cleric - Kinda meh like this age (but that is personal preference)
Heretic - Very strong personality now especially since Rogue got a huge nerf.
Mystic - Solid
Rogue - Strong, but probably wouldn't run it due to removal of + TDs. Makes AW/Prop too costly to pay off in the long run.
Sage - Dunno what scientists are, so no comment.
Tact/Warrior - Still good
War Hero - Decent if run well.
My suggested changes to these changes:
Races
Avian:
-30% Attack travel time
+75% Birth rates
+1 general
Elite: 10/3, 675gc, 8.75 NW
Spellbook: Clear Sight, Invisibility
Dwarf:
Free Building Construction
Can Use Credits To Raze Buildings
-50% Building Construction Time
-50% food consumption
+2 offensive specialist strength
Can’t use Accelerated Construction
Spellbook: Mystic Aura, Mages Fury, Greater Protection
Elite: 6/8, 700gc, 10NW
Elf
+2 defensive specialist strength
+40% Spell Success
+50% Hospital coverage
Spellbook: Pitfalls, Fools Gold, Fanaticism
Elite: 8/6, 750gc, 8.5NW
Faery
+ 20% Combat Instant Spell Damage
+ 20% Sabotage Operation Damage
+1 mana per tick in war
+1 stealth per tick
Spellbook: All racial spells and Tree of Gold
Elite: 3/9, 900gc, 10NW
Halfling
+50% Thievery Operation Success (TPA)
-50% thief cost
Access to Greater Arson
+10% population
Spellbook: Aggression, Gluttony
Elite: 6/8, 700gc, 7.5NW
Human
+20% income
+10% OME in war
-30% defensive losses
-20% Spell Success
Spellbook: Fountain of Knowledge, Quick Feet
Elite: 9/5, 750gc, 9.5NW
Orc
+20% Battle Gains
Free draft
+25% Enemy casualties when attacking
-10% science effectiveness
Spellbook: Reflect Magic
Elite: 12/2, 750gc, 10.5NW
Undead
-75% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Spreads and is Immune to The Plague
Converts off specs into elites on successful traditional march attacks (20% max per hit)
+3 off spec strength
No Food Required
Basic Thievery (Intel operations only)
Spellbook: Town Watch, Animate Dead
Elite: 12/4, N/A, 11NW
Personality
The Cleric
-40% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
Immune to The Plague
Access to Pitfalls
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The Heretic
Wizards do not die on failed spells
-75% thief losses
+25% Spell Success
+30% Magic and Thievery Science Effectiveness.
Access to Nightmares and Blizzard
Starts with +100 Wizards and +200 thieves
The Mystic
+1 mana in war
All Guilds are twice as effective
+50% Magic Science Effectiveness
Access to Meteor Showers, Chastity
Starts with +200 Wizards
The Rogue
+1 Stealth recovery per tick
+100% TD coverage
Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
+75% Thievery Science Effectiveness
Starts with +400 thieves
The Sage
Protect 50% of scientists on abduct attack
Scientists are 30% more effective
Access to Amnesia
Starts with 10% extra scientists
The Tactician
-15% Attack Time
Accurate Espionage
Access to Clear Sight
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The Warrior
+15% Offensive Military Efficiency
Enhanced Conquest range
Access to Bloodlust
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits
The War Hero
+100% Honor Effects
-50% training time
Immune to Dragon and Income penalty effects
Access to War Spoils
Starts with 400 elites
Dwarf still sucks. Needs its BE bonuses back.
Yea -10% pop basically mean -10% rtpa, rwpa, income, military and even possibly scientist...rip halflings
I actually like the new Avian, more of the stuff I'm looking for and combination with warrior seams good.
There is a lot of things yet explained I feel, but in general I like the game moving towards a more specialiced roles.
Elf and Faery Heretic seams a bit overpowered for my taste, and I don't really like the idea of introducing something called scientists, if I'm gooing with scientists thieves and wizards how many peasants will I have room for at 70-75% draft.
I like your changes Bart but WH elites conversion is a nice and an interesting mechanic imo.
I'd probably put it back on Undead again then. Lemme change UD a bit!Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija
Nah I just like WH the way it is... going back to messing with UD, icky...
WTF is blizzard??
Maybe the combined effect of storm and Drought???
(losing pez and no food growth)
Halfer was very viable attackign race if you know to play it. Now it's destroyed. Halfer probabbly was 2nd best attacker after UD.
Only... Orc was by far the best attacker :PQuote:
Originally Posted by nameisis
Love the changes keep up the good work bishop. Only thing I agree needs to be changed is to reduce orc 1 or 2 points offense wise.
Ork too easy to take down. Halfer with good pop sci can reach almsot ork off level. UD is top offense by farQuote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
Already had this argument in the top orc is the best and in the warring tier down undead is the best. So both of you are right lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by nameisis
You guy could at least have waiting until i had them all posted. All updated now.
Remember, be constructive if you want your feedback to be heard.
Can you provide more info about the levels of the Scientists and their effect?
I was much more cautious around avians than any other attacker type. Avian is supposed to be an attacker killer and it remains very capable here. Plus, it was an op sink which was widely ignored as an impressive feature. It gets better at what it does best.
The halfer changes I'll wait for. I'm not convinced the negative 10 will stick, but humans had it before and it functioned admirably.
I think humans are looking decent with the changes. I like these turtleable types and could make a good living at cleric. We had a human sage in kingdom and he did great.
Elf durability loss might seem tough but I think they're a great attacker support build as heretic and the best out the gate. Faery would surpass but they need to be protected to have time to get those numbers.
I'm a firm believer in blending the said personalities and races so choosing lopsided kingdom strats never enters my mind unless it's a single race kingdom. You can't moan about top kingdom bottom feeders if you don't build in the known deterrence. Now's your chance.
Is Fountain of Knowledge being removed / changed? with the removal of books i dont get it :/
Question to Bishop:
1. How many scientists levels are there.
2. How much more potent do they become while rising.
3. How much would you need to cap effects.
4. What % of scientists does abduct capture?
5. How are TMs going to maintain any form of science this age?
Dwarf was fine, I just ran it within my limited parameters. You could go nuts with build switches in war. Its particular strengths would shine in more organized nw aware environments. The spell compliment is formidable and I managed to block a load of ops. Its strength is in the sustainability with an understanding of camping tactics. I still think dwarf is the most efficient WH build.
still need 96 hour eowcf back and a longer cool down between forts. 24 hours between fort cycles is just ridiculously short, kds are still forted up all freaking age.
Maybe Normal and Aggressive have 48 hr minimums
Now that the science/mechanics changes are out...
Without numbers it's difficult to know what effect this will have. Do the scientists count against your population, or what exactly? How do they compare to books? I'm going to guess that the effects will be cautious, in which case Orc's science penalty will mean less.
Warrior's extra gen imo puts them over the top in usefulness. It should probably be something like +10 OME and +1 gen but lots of people will find that limiting. Cleric still sucks, Tactician is still fairly useful. Heretic's zero thief loss is still cheesy as hell - should be changed to -50 or -75% loss to be less asinine (and return rune refund to 50%).
Yay for faster war attack times.
I am surprised we didn't see an increase in the number of stewards, that would really help for Kingdom Management.
+1. Please.... I mean that is probably just changing one digit somewhere from 1 to 2/3... o.OQuote:
Originally Posted by Avalon
I don't like the Science change at all. There's always a point you can rely on that makes a game what it is. For me, changing the Science is destroying something that worked very well for such a long time that it feels like it's been there forever. I always thought it's "never change a running system/winning team" ?!?
Those changes of the races are so minimal, you can't even call them changes.
Bring back Gnomes or Dark Elves
Retire the Undead again
Play around with the personalities again
ALL THINGS I WOULD SIGN
But leave the science that works AS IT IS.
That's a game-stopper for me.
Elf Heretic way OP. +75% wpa with NM?