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Why are dark elves doing really well? While I wouldn't expect them to be a bad race, they don't have anything going on. All they have is the free spell casting, which saves ~5% of land not used for towers. The sabotage bonus is really minor too. And their elites are 6 offense instead of the 7 or 8 offense of other races. So what makes them so great anyway?
Free casting. I'd love to be able to run an A/M with free casting. I'm running 15% towers w/ +60% channeling science and I still run out quickly. Elf has extra mana, but they can't use it if they don't have runes.
You're overlooking the significance of free casting. Free casting means they can create land and money instantly, for nothing.
When evaluating the strength of a race, you need to account for their economy as that's the backbone of any races military. DE has a very strong economy and because of that they aren't a race to just be overlooked.
They're doing well? What does that mean exactly? You can't be referring to the charts, as there aren't a lot of DEs there. I doubt the successful warring kd's have any significant amounts of DEs either.
They are popular because people think having the word "Dark" in the race name is badass. Thats about it imo.
They also have the best overall spellbook and are a big part of the reason magic is a viable venue of attack.
1) They have access to NM which gives a direct venue to weaken a province through WPA during chains (so if someone has a crazy TPA, no problem, you can still NM him like mad and chain him)
2) They have access to ToG which makes them an economy powerhouse when they need to be (and oow, their pumping potential is insane)
3) FG is ok, its like icing on the cake (it is to to "Rob the Vault" what NM is to NS, another angle of attack that people need to defend against so if people send all their spare cash to that halfling rogue... well, tough luck)
And finally, the fact that they use no runes makes them idea for casting the rune-expensive high tier spells.
Overall, they make a solid addition to any warring KD.
For explorers, I would theorize that a "no rune" paradising trip would be very attractive as well.
and anyone with decent tpa can keep DEs without mana by using sabotage wizards. if the DEs are forced to keep high tpa they really have **** for armyQuote:
Originally Posted by Magn
Sure, but their issue is that they've got the worst army in the game (imo), so pumping really doesn't help much. They're pretty awesome learn targets tho, so i'm glad they existQuote:
2) They have access to ToG which makes them an economy powerhouse when they need to be (and oow, their pumping potential is insane)
FG was moved to unfriendly and above this age, wasn't it? That's a major nerf imo, as kd's can now simply spend or protect their money before they go to unfriendlyQuote:
3) FG is ok, its like icing on the cake (it is to to "Rob the Vault" what NM is to NS, another angle of attack that people need to defend against so if people send all their spare cash to that halfling rogue... well, tough luck)
They're popular because they're easy to play, not because they're especially good. It's been like that since they were introducedQuote:
And finally, the fact that they use no runes makes them idea for casting the rune-expensive high tier spells.
Overall, they make a solid addition to any warring KD.
For explorers, I would theorize that a "no rune" paradising trip would be very attractive as well.
DE is a well-balanced race imo. The only down side is the loss of + 30% of spell potency to Mystic pers. I will use DE Mystic for my example.
TOG is a huge bonus that puts them on par with Human Merchants.This is where Elves losses out to DE big time ^^
+15% Sabotage is overlooked. DE has invisibility spell which gives additional of +10%. Coupled with some science (+30% at least?), a 2 TPA DE province can dish out some decent damage to provinces such as Orcs and Elves. This is also something Elves lose out to DE
+30% Spell potency with science (+30% at least to be on par with elves?), a 4WPA DE can do some wicked spells damages of Nightmare, Fireball, MS, etc. My current role in my kd is to cast MV and drought to offset certain spells off my kdmates. Elf Mystic/ Sage may beat DE on this one slightly, with all the goodies spell buffs and FOK. Humans on the other hand, is weak against DE.
Focus on Home and BE science, along with 20% homes, keeping BE high, you should be able to hit a 60 mod OPA and 50 mod DPA at least without trouble. With the above setup, I find myself doing quite decent against many Orcs and elfs of my networth range.
Lastly, I find DE the mystic version of Gnome (+15% to spell effectiveness, cheap thieves, specs and leets) and Gnome the thievery version of DE where both these 2 races are like twins.
There's nothing exceptional about Dark Elf.
DE is one of the few races (other than Gnomes and Halfings) to not have any weakness.
All races have weaknesses relative to others.
If you check wiki, DE doesn't have those special weakness like humans, elves or dwarves. In that sense, DE doesn't have weaknesses. But if you argued that DE's military is going to be weaker than Human or Orc as a weakness then I would agree with you to some extend. So give concrete stuffs. Having just one-liner is not gonna help much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheric
Unfortunately, the game is not so simple for us to merely consider inherent characteristics of a racial selection. Weakness is measured in terms of relativity between other alternative options. DE has a horrendously weak military, a merely average ability to dice and its usage only brings the utility of four spells to the table. One spell which is a one-trick pony, another which is relations dependant, a third which has too low-yield benefit, and a fourth which is pretty awesome sauce but some would rather cast something else in its place under certain conditions.
Your one-liner suggesting that this race does not have any weaknesses is not gonna help much.
Mystic has always been a popular personality - even when it sucked. Dark elf has always been popular also, even when other races are better suited to pretty much all its roles .
SW is not a great op.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc
1) I did an experiment with some mates and determined that if the DE keeps his mana under 50%, the op is lossy (meaning you spend more steath SW than you make him lose mana)
2) Add to that the fact that you have no mana gauge or the ability to tell how much damage you are doing and the loss just keeps piling on
3) If the target has WTs, an increased % of your ops will also fail making it even more lossy
So, the question becomes: Are you willing to sacrifice the opping ability of, say, 2 halflings to cripple to casting ability of 1 DE?
I already asked for SW to be tweaked so that its less useless (at least give the amount of mana you reduced the target by). It fell on deaf ears.
Their armies are on par with hafling and arguably better than gnome. They are also not that far off behind elf/avian/dwarf that good science won't compensate for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc
If you think pumping doesn't help much, then I'll tell you that imho, you are blissfully ignorant of the current realities of the game as the people pushing for nerfing the sage next age will tell you.
For learning, its mostly useful when rapping less able KDs oow and there are 2 obstacles to it:
1) The tactic is contingent on the KD being less able
2) You need to be able to break the DE with elites home.
Yeah, well, good for you if you can get everyone on board quickly to finance the dragon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc
In my experience, there is always at least an handful of players who are sleeping and can't fund the dragon right away and even after funding the first dragon and waiting for war, some people still have some money left piled up at home.
They are popular because they make a good addition to the team if you know how to play them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luc