The uses of Homes . . .

[vines]

Well to tell you the truth I've been in a few top kingdoms just by freak happenstance. I was in this one really old school kingdom one called equilibrium. In equilibrium I larned how to grow super fast. Now I can grow faster than any other person in the game because of things I learned in that kingdom. Saddly no random kingdom would like it very much if I just out grew everyone in the game and it wouldn’t be good for the kingdom. Another old school top kingdom I was in was call war-heros or war gods, I’m not really sure on the name but I remember it started with the word “war”. In that kingdom I learned my tips and tricks about gnome(halfling). I was in another kingdom called Play-bunnies or play-boys, or something like that. But in that kingdom I learned how to be a strong attacker. I was in a few other kingdoms that were in the top 50. In those days I was still learning and devolving my own style. Now I’m a master of the game. My skills are honed and I have devolved a new style of play.


When I first introduced my play style to the utopia community I did it so without the use of sciences. The reason was to show a province running smoothly without the need for science. Sciences should only be ment as buffs for a province, not a necessitie. If newbi can not run his or her province smoothly without science than he or she has some problems.


I did well with the province Red Mist. I gained around 4k acres all in combat. I had 0 acres explored. The age after that I did even better and had lots of honor with a human sage. The reason is because I kept a low profile and did not post my province for that age.

[swanorcolt1]

Do u mean Play-School? thats a kids tv show....

[Micke-]

if you have nothing better to say than to insult people, please dont.

[misashi]

yo u were in ABS and playboys? seriously?

FYI i used to play in equilibrium a long time ago. who were u again?

"Now I’m a master of the game. My skills are honed and I have devolved a new style of play."

Lol yea u have devolved into a lesser being.

[VT2]

You went without science, because you're stupid, and thought science added 0.92 networth per point.
Go away, vines - you're blocking the view.

[Clampy]

"Now I can grow faster than any other person in the game" - vines

That is just beautiful. I would like to see you do it, my first go went okay, but I'm sure you could do better, and your kd-mates will love you for all the aid you can send them so you'd be really helping them out too. I would like to see you go for top province vines.

[Lordwarallied]

uoi may have land droped there, i can believe that. but to go out and say that you are now better than them cause of the things they taught you..its too much.

you used a logic on your previous post sayin that what you have accomplished, you had it done with all those strats and therefore it is because of that. frankly, thousands of people are doing what you have done but without your strats AT ALL! therefore, they can attribute it to the fact that they have not used it. so is it fair to say then that their strategy is superior to urs? i think you should know by now that no province is invincible, there is always a weakness, some bigger than others, a province needs to be very situational, and it isnt about just who has more PPA, cause i dont consider gnomes to be superiors because of that, ofc thats because of their racial traits. bottom line is. homes are weak, waste bonuses, for itself and other buildings that arent built cause of that. It makes you more vulnerable to other larger provinces, it requires lots more attention due to the fragility of it, its easy to Op and rewmove that "strenght". why but oh why would you want to be sci-less, have artificial military,wizzards and thieves, and have something that doesnt make your armies goes faster which is a HUGE advantage, something to REDUCE your food conssumption, something to reduce your losses if attacked, something to prevent useless losses in a war...i mean cmon man.

[Avenger]

Before =|= now, vines. Before you had tens of thousands of people to farm.

"Now I’m a master of the game." - good to add to siggy.

[VT2]

Vines can't farm anyone.
He doesn't have the offense needed.

[Zauper]

Viscount / UG

I'm looking at a few cbs of your elves. Here's what I've observed so far:
One prov 'rocking' 25 DPA all out. Looks like he has a substantial PPA though; CB gives him 30.5. He does have ~100 opa and maybe 80-90 dpa all home, though.

Aaaaand... another one with similar numbers. Looking at your orcs, they have about 200k more off and the same def on the same size.

You were saying what about elves > orcs when running 52% homes, exactly?

Look -- even *if* running 52% homes boosted your BE by 30% (okay -- it probably does) you're losing a good bit of land. You have 48% land to work with instead of 70% land. So, is 52% homes -- the bonus they give you directly -- worth 22% land?

I'm going to go with no. It looks like they give you about a 16.6% pop boost (52*8)/(25*100)) -- or for a prov with no science; 4.15 ppa. for 10% sci; 4.56 ppa.

At 70% draft that corresponds to 2.9 extra MPA. That's 18 opa + weak modifiers, at the cost of a substantial amount of land and vulnerability.

Look;
Homes aren't bad in every situation. But you need to look at it and calculate out the value of the extra offense homes give you vs tgs vs stables and figure out what each one means for your province, individually, rather than relying on the forums to guide you.

p.s.
My 2k acre orc with 100 NPA can hit either of two the two 4.5k+ acre elves I cb'd if they send out.

If I were 4k acres with my pre-war stats (a fat 150 nwa) I could hit your 4.5k acre elves with 180-190 nwa all home, and quad them if they sent out -- while maintaining a similar dpa to them. [and yes, I'm assuming they don't have a dragon on them :P]

[UnknownGhost]

Viscount / UG

I'm looking at a few cbs of your elves. Here's what I've observed so far:
One prov 'rocking' 25 DPA all out. Looks like he has a substantial PPA though; CB gives him 30.5. He does have ~100 opa and maybe 80-90 dpa all home, though.

Aaaaand... another one with similar numbers. Looking at your orcs, they have about 200k more off and the same def on the same size.

You were saying what about elves > orcs when running 52% homes, exactly?

Look -- even *if* running 52% homes boosted your BE by 30% (okay -- it probably does) you're losing a good bit of land. You have 48% land to work with instead of 70% land. So, is 52% homes -- the bonus they give you directly -- worth 22% land?

I'm going to go with no. It looks like they give you about a 16.6% pop boost (52*8)/(25*100)) -- or for a prov with no science; 4.15 ppa. for 10% sci; 4.56 ppa.

At 70% draft that corresponds to 2.9 extra MPA. That's 18 opa + weak modifiers, at the cost of a substantial amount of land and vulnerability.

Look;
Homes aren't bad in every situation. But you need to look at it and calculate out the value of the extra offense homes give you vs tgs vs stables and figure out what each one means for your province, individually, rather than relying on the forums to guide you.

p.s.
My 2k acre orc with 100 NPA can hit either of two the two 4.5k+ acre elves I cb'd if they send out.

If I were 4k acres with my pre-war stats (a fat 150 nwa) I could hit your 4.5k acre elves with 180-190 nwa all home, and quad them if they sent out -- while maintaining a similar dpa to them. [and yes, I'm assuming they don't have a dragon on them :P]

First of all, we've been fighting 3 Absalom kingdoms in the last 24-48 hours. Ofc our provs aren't pumped, big guy.

Second of all, get out of the ghetto.

[Zauper]

First of all, we've been fighting 3 Absalom kingdoms in the last 24-48 hours. Ofc our provs aren't pumped, big guy.

Second of all, get out of the ghetto.

boohoo, i was hit 9x in the ~60h window between our wars :P I'm pretty confident that your elves don't normally run more than 180-190 NWA. If I'm wrong, it just makes them that much of a better target. It happens that elves with 24k defspecs don't tend to lose more than say -- 1.2-1.5k each time they're hit. So they had what, maybe 30k defspecs, since I imagine the abs kds have been hitting you for gains rather than chaining ooh? 150k def all out? Again, not very impressive for a 52% homes strat. But then, you won't share what their info is, which just furthers my impression that you guys were (shock) exaggeratin'. :P

Second of all, sinners isn't exactly a top kd. Maybe you should speak for yourself :P. There are plenty of top kds that I do have standing offers to join, but I really prefer doing what I'm doing.

[vines]

Clampy I once did it but it was not good for the kingdom. Mummm no one is doing what I have done. They are doing similar but not the same. The difference is how they are geting their results.
I have never said that in fact I stated when I first showed my strategy that no province is invincible but a province can be made to have no weakness. And that's what my strategies do they make a province that has no weakness. All these other strategies have a spot that is lacking. So they use team work to covering up one another's weaknesses. My strategies as a kingdom would not involve covering one another's weaknesses reather it would be to prevent one another from being weakened. When you said homes make one more vulnerable to larger provinces. Well any one can be bottom fed there is no helping that, and they have made some changed so bottom feeding is not like it used to be for where a province 20% bigger could take a good amount of land from you.

Lordwarallied, with all due respect, please stop talking out of your ass. I made up the strategy if you have a question about it ask me. A high home strategy does not need lots of attention and is not fragile. I've been known to go inactive throughout ages on a regular basis and my province is just fine when I come back.

Another thing when you talk ops to weaken a province. That kind of thing works on most provinces. However once you get to higher levels of play you will realize it becomes very hard to do that. In fact at my level of play the only way an opponent kingdom is going to weaken a keeper strategy of mine is if they have a pure t/ms running +8tparaw and
+8wparaw. Because my keeper strategy has to do with a province running a minimum of 5rawtpa/wpa. Even still you have to remember war is not about ops. In war if I find that a province is oping me I would just have that province's land taken because they will be lacking in military power if they are able to op on a keeper. So you make be thinking okay so keepers are bad but their has to be a catch. Yes there is. While keepers are strong in all areas they lack the military to start a fight. That's where breakers come into play. A breaker is able to dish out 130-150opa.

Put it this way if a top kingdom came across a keeper breaker, kingdom this is how it would go down. The keepers would get soms and cbs of all the provinces. With in the next few hours the breakers would attack the provinces with the highest tpa and wpa. The top kingdom would than have it's attackers attack the breakers. The provinces that were attacked would not attack if they did the breakers would only attack them again. At any rate, once the top kingdom's attackers attacked. The keepers would attack them and keep the land. Then the breakers would attack again and so on untill the two kingdoms were in war. By this time the keepers and breakers are in thieve and wizard pump mode and everyone keeps armies at home. At the same time, the king of the keeper, breaker kigndom will message the kingdom of the top kingdom asking for his kingdom to give up with in the minimum time. It will take about two days for everyone in the breaker, keeper kingdom to build up all the new military and what not. At that point if the top kingdom does not give up the breaker, keeper kingdom will just wave them one more time.


The only way a top kingdom could beat a breaker, keeper strategy is if they had help from another top kingdom. However if the king running the keeper, breaker kingdom was skilled he or she would order a ruby dragon on both kingdoms at the same time. Then the king or queen would have the keepers change to pure t/m by droping military and then he or she would have the breakers running a negavite income and build up a 99% draft. This would allow the breakers to rise tpa and wpa while keeping the military froce. The keepers would feed the breakers. All in all the keeper, breaker strategy would still have a good chance of winning a war against two kingdom. It would come down to how well people could fallow the king or queen's orders.

Now if it were a 1 v 3 then that is what you call an ambush and nobody should fight an ambushed war.

An orc running 50% homes is an ideal breaker that's why they took the plague away from orc, it was just too powerful. And most top kingdoms have about 20% in tools science and so it's more like one is gaining 50%-60% in BE.

Edit: sorry for the long ass post.

[VT2]

"Clampy I once did it but it was not good for the kingdom." Only once? Have you been booted out of more than one kingdom, then? Lovely, vines.

"Mummm no one is doing what I have done." Yes, they are. They're turtling in war, and hitting overexplored n00bs for fat gains, while giving almost nothing to their kingdom.

"They are doing similar but not the same." The exact same, vines. "

The difference is how they are geting their results." You get results!?

[Clampy]

You must have been really annoying or something for it to be 'bad for the kd', my kingdoms loved having me there this age, many of them built pure military builds and let me finance them completely. If you don't believe me just go ask them, so if it was bad for your kingdom you must have been messing it up somehow.