Sheister vs Sampuan

[LoRD_SaMPuaN]

What's funny in this whole situation is FS did more to damage there long term goals by not surrendering. Because most war tier if not all of the tier will not fight a kingdom who demands a 50% nw win. I know my kingdom will never war FS in the future regardless of advantage. Because I know FS will never surrender and who wants a month war. Most war kingdoms want 2 to 7 day wars. Nothing more, net and land determine the winner. Clean simple then we move on to fight someone else win or lose. To fill the scoreboard as it where. So now FS becomes that kingdom that even if you win you lose. Hope FS enjoys whoring because I don't see many kingdoms willing to war them in the future.

do you really believe pyro's story of 'tactical wd' from a superior position because we would drag it to %50 win? we always had a shot at creating more ubs, and they let us create more than anticipated & they had to wd when it got out of control..

[FATstrat]

Zauper and BoH really don't seem to understand war tier's philosophy. If you win a war and end on 10k acres, while the other KD ends on 40k acres, then you still win the war. They only think one war at a time. Like others said, after that war ends, it is like a reset age.

War tier doesnt care about acres, it doesn't really care about honour (although it's a precious advantage!), it just cares about that WW. Pyro can take acres from FS out of war, but they won't really care. When a warring KD loses acres oow all they think is: "That was a nice Tpa/Wpa/Sci boost! Who is in my range for war now?"

If pyro are warring this age then they need to understand that they lost the war in every way imaginable. It is that simple, this is not vietnam. If they are a growth KD this age then good job getting those acres but you still have a long way to go to win anything.

[situsklaw]

yeah not sure how u lose a war with a 2 mil nw advantage. always heard nw dont mean **** but come on now. pk bounce pump.

[Tadpole]

Zauper and BoH really don't seem to understand war tier's philosophy.

I'm fairly certain they understand it perfectly. That doesn't mean they have to think it is good for the game, nor that having said philosophy automatically offers you protection versus someone with a different philosophy.

edit: On that note it seems FS, though begrudgingly, understands that their take on war doesn't grant them immunity. Which is as it should be. Right now they show more class in the forum than Pyro does.

[FATstrat]

Or perhaps just reminding the war tier that losing lots of land in war might win the battle(war) and lose the conflict (multi-war timespan!) pewpewpewpew.

But there is no multi-war timespan for FS. One war at a time.

I agree with Zauper 100%. Or as Jeb! said, you have to be willing to lose the primary to win the general. Please clap.

And there is no general, only a collection of primaries.

FS fight every war like it's their last. So what if pyro can turn around and hit them afterwards? They have the WW and pyro don't, no matter how many punches they throw after the bell.

[Tadpole]

But there is no multi-war timespan for FS. One war at a time.



And there is no general, only a collection of primaries.

FS fight every war like it's their last. So what if pyro can turn around and hit them afterwards? They have the WW and pyro don't, no matter how many punches they throw after the bell.

I doubt Pyro is looking for a ww, but other resources. Which they are equally entitled to as FS is entitled to refuse them a war. Zaupers and BoHs argument is simply that it's not up to the singular kingdom to decide when the conflict is over. FS can withhold war, and Pyro can farm resources. FS can pretend the conflict ended with the WD, Pyro can pretend that war is nothing but a stance, part of a longer conflict starting with prep, moving to hostile, war and now post-war. Things will transpire as they will...

edit: And the different stances on war is part of the game. Fighting for narrative supremacy: "this is what war is", "no, this is!". Very seldom is one narrative universally embraced. And that one kingdom fights war in one way, is not the same as being entitled to that way be sanctified.

[handofthrawn]

do you really believe pyro's story of 'tactical wd' from a superior position because we would drag it to %50 win? we always had a shot at creating more ubs, and they let us create more than anticipated & they had to wd when it got out of control..

No my point is everyone has unbreakables and I don't measure war wins on unbreakables. Unless it's a ton of unbreakables that can actually use there advantage to dominate the enemy. I despise nw protection, but don't blame you for using it. But 30k acres with a 1.5 million net advantage is a win regardless in my book. See I have a real life and don't have time for a month war that would grow tedious and not fun. So no my kingdom will never war FS again. Nothing personal just business of racking up war wins.

[Aranfein]

Damn Tadpole when did you turn into a mini Strat0? philosophy = 400% :p

I see many comments against FS on the way they played the war.. I think that's really wrong, FS played to their strengths and got the desired/deserved war win, I believe Pyro could have still won the war by bouncing down FS UB's but they chose to WD and rebuild rather then go another week, an understandable choice for most no doubt, but the victory shouldn't be taken away from FS by any means... They did what they do best and they played it like they usually do when warring tough opponents, Pyro should have known exactly how FS would try and win and therefore expect a long war.

I see no reason to be upset at the war itself, seeing they been friendlies for quite some ages now, the fact that Pyro returns to halt FS age by laying into them now seems rather petty as FS declined a round 2. - But that said Pyro is entitled to play the aftermath as they wish as they gained size to take some science/honour back if that is their goal.

[jmiedema]

No my point is everyone has unbreakables and I don't measure war wins on unbreakables. Unless it's a ton of unbreakables that can actually use there advantage to dominate the enemy. I despise nw protection, but don't blame you for using it. But 30k acres with a 1.5 million net advantage is a win regardless in my book. See I have a real life and don't have time for a month war that would grow tedious and not fun. So no my kingdom will never war FS again. Nothing personal just business of racking up war wins.

they had nw advantage for a long time yea. However the last 24h of war they started about 1.7M above, and by the time they WD it was around 1.3M I Believe. It was definitely trending to FS's favour.

Also, you mentioned earlier that you like 2-7 day wars. Well by the 7'th day (in war) it was trending heavily in our favour, and then they WD, so just because it was at the tail end of your spectrum doesnt mean we were somehow dragging it out for days.

Everyone knows you can max gain a bunch of land, or heck do a bunch of razes and destroy all their buildings and you will have a NW advantage, it doesn't mean that you have More Troops or more Thieves/Wizards. There are a lot more things to take into account than just the land and NW. Granted we should have been trying to feed more land onto our provs in the tail end, and admittedly I would say even in a winning war one of our biggest faults is not knowing when to take the land/honour resources that we put onto farms. We always go for the win first, and resources second.

Regarding our WD.... their demands that we were losing the war badly and should WD never held any water. We knew we had a very good shot at winning the war, the question was always 1. Do we want to dedicate the time it will take to accomplish this, and 2. Do we want to put that much effort/sleep into it. After their comments we decided it was worth a bit of lost sleep to turn the war around. Also, we really didn't take much sci from them at all lol almost laughable.. maybe 300-400k books altogether the whole war. The other point about WD'ing is..if we withdrew when they wanted us to.. what would have protected us against them doing this exact same thing to "take our resources as penance for dragging it out" or whatever BS excuse they would want to come up with. They could just decide "Hey we want some more honour and you have some still, so we are going to take it" I dont see how withdrawing somehow saves us from this position..

And yes, of course we knew this was a possibility, and likely, that they would do this. I had both mentioned it and recommended that if we know they will refuse CF that we grow and pump expecting war. I think we just wanted to see what kind of kingdom they were to see if they are worth remaining friendly to or not. Sometimes it is good to see the character of the kingdoms you surround yourself with. I think what they have said in these past forum posts speaks loudly to their character.

[bombdigie]

So how about you stops crying on the forums and just play the game, buckaroo.

[Tadpole]

Damn Tadpole when did you turn into a mini Strat0? philosophy = 400% :p

Home sick with high fever. Probably a bit delirious...

So how about you stops crying on the forums and just play the game, buckaroo.

Calling the kettle...

[bombdigie]

Calling the kettle...

Ah but you see there is a difference, I relish it, and they shunned it, and then they replicated it.

So when it is said about me it is okay. When it is said about them, well what comes around.

[Sheister]

sorry, did something happen? I was too busy today to pay attention? Cliff notes?

[MyNameIsMatija]

Hah and people told me Nesta is a nice guy.

So FS will lose some land, some science, heck they can lose it all, they won their war, they've proven what they came to prove, doubt they wanted to crown this age anyway because like citadela said there was a vote what to do this age and I wanted to vote just aim to troll other KDs but there was no such option (not per say at least) so I didn't vote in the end or play in FS after a few weeks in this age. I don't think FS loses much in the long run, heck they can use this situation to build character and teach their new members even more about the game, because lets face it, **** like this is part of playing in FS and it's what makes it so fun.

So Pyro will gain some land and science which are numbers in an online game that get reset at the end of each Utopian age... That proves nothing, they are simply continuing to max gain like they did in their war, they don't have class or strategy, they are just another whoring KD who doesn't know what to do when they don't have the upper hand. They lost my respect if that means anything to anyone (I'm sure it doesn't) but I would like to hear what Nesta has to say about all of this, he can't keep his members in line, you have Sheister saying he's done with the game each age and saying he is going to rest for the rest of this age and then you have others saying how it's payback time a few days after and how this should have been obvious to anyone (yes it was but I didn't want to believe you will actually go through with it, I still considered you friendly enough to put relations above some temporary ego trip) all the while Nesta is silent, I'm sure he'll be here soon enough saying: "Oh hey I have life, excuse me if I don't sit on these forums every day" when he was quite eloquent when he thought he was winning the war (or should I say max gaining FS).

Have at it Pyro, I hope you raze kill all of FS, the more you do, the more you prove what I feared you will prove.

[Band of Horses]

Zauper and BoH really don't seem to understand war tier's philosophy. If you win a war and end on 10k acres, while the other KD ends on 40k acres, then you still win the war. They only think one war at a time. Like others said, after that war ends, it is like a reset age.

War tier doesnt care about acres, it doesn't really care about honour (although it's a precious advantage!), it just cares about that WW. Pyro can take acres from FS out of war, but they won't really care. When a warring KD loses acres oow all they think is: "That was a nice Tpa/Wpa/Sci boost! Who is in my range for war now?"

If pyro are warring this age then they need to understand that they lost the war in every way imaginable. It is that simple, this is not vietnam. If they are a growth KD this age then good job getting those acres but you still have a long way to go to win anything.

But there is no multi-war timespan for FS. One war at a time.



And there is no general, only a collection of primaries.

FS fight every war like it's their last. So what if pyro can turn around and hit them afterwards? They have the WW and pyro don't, no matter how many punches they throw after the bell.

We understand the warring tier philosophy just fine. It is flawed. If you think honor is not relevant I guess you haven't been playing the last few ages? The honor crown is far more sought after than the WW crown. And most of the last few ages honor crown has been decided by acres, YOU being one of them. So eat your unlimited waves and tell me you're going to crown.

This is nothing new for Pyro either. They've farmed smaller kds for weeks at a time, like divinity.

You'll lose your acres, military, resources, honor, science, and time. If you try to run to another war there is no rule that says they have to stop, so really is it all worth it? I don't think your kd is so short sighted that you look at 1 war at a time and don't look at age goal. Maybe you expected more kindness and sympathy out of Pyro after dragging them around trying to force NW win... I wouldn't have.

And you don't understand the JEB! quote. He's referring to the general election in comparison to party primaries, if you pander and go too far right while getting the nomination like Mitt Romney did in 2012, you end up losing the general. Congrats on winning the primary over Pyro, I don't like your odds in the general.