Sheister vs Sampuan

[Sheister]

oh....

[Aranfein]

TommyB, if you quote me don't add your own into it, then its not really a "quote", I'm not sure why you felt the need to add your own to what i said, but ofc its standard that someone feels entitled or wronged in most cases, its also one of the most annoying things when doing diplo.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Matija, when did I say 4 days of hitting was/or isn't ok?

I believe that's up to the individual kd to decide how pissed off they are, personally I wouldn't go that route as for me war ends previous relations and I congratulate opponent on a hard played war whether I win or loose.

I don't think you can find a single kd that's not left war with me, where I haven't been friendly after, I happily cf kds after a war, unless they get inrange again, I don't hit those I've warred either that age, I certainly don't WD just so I can turn around to b2b.. That doesn't mean I can't understand the tactic behind it and I do find it valid in some cases.


I think you're taking my personal ethics of how i wish to play and mixing it with what I don't perceive as wrong in the bigger picture of utopia and kingdoms. But just course I wouldn't do it, doesn't mean I'm against others playing that way.

I've been annoyed at Prot and how BB play, ive been angry at zauper/godly on how they play, but while I'm not happy about it, both KDs are obviously good and by playing the way they do they get the goals they want, doesn't mean I got to agree with it, I can however appreciate it, they still play within the rules.

Well you see when I stand for something I tend to condemn things that contradict my views. I guess we are just different that way, I'm too hotheaded to go where the wind blows.

[Sheister]

RAWR! Rage against the dying of the light!

[Aranfein]

Matija, basically you mean everyone should play and do as you do, in order to follow your personal ethics?

I can guarantee you there are a bunch of players just being soldiers in kds that would take completely different routes if they were monarchs.

If everyone did the same or played within same limited views/ethics of one person, Utopia would be an awfully boring place.

I don't backstab allies, does that mean I can't enjoy or appreciate other kingdoms doing it for their own reasons? Or you can't appreciate FS hitting a much smaller kd in order to secure honour crown? I wouldn't do it, but I can certainly understand the reason behind it, the drive to win because you are in position to do it.

Does that make it wrong? No because they did so within the rules.. Would I do it? No course I don't play like that.. Can I understand why? Yes... Do I think they shouldn't do it? Not really, it's not my kd and I don't play there, so if that's how they wish to play that's really up to them. (Sorry FS, Just an example).

The above doesn't mean I compromise or change my ethics, it would only be the case if I was actually playing there, then you might have some grounds for what you're saying.

P's. You are yet to tell/show me what post it is you are actually suggesting I'm going against own ethics with..

[Bart of Sparta]

Congratulations to FS. I hope we can war at some point later in the age with only 1 term: no side is allowed to surrender, battle will end as soon as one side pushes the other to 50%!

[MyNameIsMatija]

Matija, basically you mean everyone should play and do as you do, in order to follow your personal ethics?

No, I'm saying I condemn it and that I'm too hotheaded to let it go, it's not a good thing. Don't get so defensive all the time...
You can play the game any way you want, I will still condemn it if you act high and mighty at the same time, I like to think of it as not having a short fuse but more of a quick reaction to bull****, although it might boil down to the same thing in the end. I really am not in the mood to search through posts (it's my default mood - lazy), it was an immediate post to what you wrote at the spot, at this point I don't even care anymore, for someone who usually cares about stuff like this it's saying something. I never said you go against your own ethics but at the time it seemed like you took a stance that didn't condemn actions that would go against them. This paints a picture of an undertoned bias, because when you talk about how BB "didn't let you play the game" you could look at it as just a way that "BB plays the game" so let them play the game the way they want to. Do your moral standards only adamantly apply when you are the victim?

[Aranfein]

I'm far from bias towards Pyro, they don't like me and I don't like them as a kd, their ethics are too far from my own ingame, that doesn't mean I don't like the players.. If I was bias would I be posting that FS deserved the win and played the war well? - I have a lot of respect for Francis, Cita & FS, and while I ain't agreed with a few things they done last few ages, I still consider them friends & FS friendlies...

Not sure why you include BB in this, I said a few posts ago I had been angry at the way they played, but while I appreciated their ingame tactics of getting acres, there's a big difference between being waved, acres/resources taken, it's another telling someone they can't post on forum or kd will suffer, or say you can't grow in future ages be course we don't like you.

Just like I think those CFs with deals such as "you can't war that or that KD" & "You can't grow above this amount of acres/%", got no place in utopia in my personal opinion, if you restrict someone on how to play the game it ruins it.

P's it would be like telling my daughter not to knock me home in a game of Ludo, it's perfectly fine within the rules of the game, but while I wouldn't do it to her, im not going to tell her she can't do it to me in order to win.. but if I threatened her with "if you do knock me home, I'll keep knocking yours home" or "if you do this you will forever have to play with 8 pieces rather then 4".. I can guarantee she wouldn't find the game remotely fun anymore and refuse to play.

[MyNameIsMatija]

I'm far from bias towards Pyro, they don't like me and I don't like them as a kd, their ethics are too far from my own ingame, that doesn't mean I don't like the players.. If I was bias would I be posting that FS deserved the win and played the war well? - I have a lot of respect for Francis, Cita & FS, and while I ain't agreed with a few things they done last few ages, I still consider them friends & FS friendlies...

Not sure why you include BB in this, I said a few posts ago I had been angry at the way they played, but while I appreciated their ingame tactics of getting acres, there's a big difference between being waved, acres/resources taken, it's another telling someone they can't post on forum or kd will suffer, or say you can't grow in future ages be course we don't like you.

Just like I think those CFs with deals such as "you can't war that or that KD" & "You can't grow above this amount of acres/%", got no place in utopia in my personal opinion, if you restrict someone on how to play the game it ruins it.

"KD will suffer" is different to getting farmed for so long that one KD waits for another to be forced out of fortified how exactly? (yeah I remembered roughly what you said)

[Aranfein]

At the time I posted that, pyro had waved for 30hrs... that's far from waiting for someone to get out of fortified...

And if you refer to my post about the "if they can wait for gbp/fortified to disappear, the tactic is understandable", you completely got the wrong idea about what I was posting...

That post was in respond to someone saying something along the lines of "wtf are they doing razing rather then tradm/learn", which I responded with the above, it was a discussion about WHY Pyro might be doing as they did, nothing about anything else... jeez all that for you not reading it proper..

[jmiedema]

Just like I think those CFs with deals such as "you can't war that or that KD" & "You can't grow above this amount of acres/%", got no place in utopia in my personal opinion, if you restrict someone on how to play the game it ruins it.

P's it would be like telling my daughter not to knock me home in a game of Ludo, it's perfectly fine within the rules of the game, but while I wouldn't do it to her, im not going to tell her she can't do it to me in order to win.. but if I threatened her with "if you do knock me home, I'll keep knocking yours home" or "if you do this you will forever have to play with 8 pieces rather then 4".. I can guarantee she wouldn't find the game remotely fun anymore and refuse to play.

Those CF deals were extreme, but necessary. It isn't the way we would usually CF a kingdom, but that specific kingdom had a history of last minute fake wars to give "anyone but FS" honour crown. So in that extreme case, certain terms had to be included that aren't a norm with FS but were deemed as necessary. Same as if we had an agreed war with pyro down the road, we very well may include a "No Back to Back clause". Is it something we would regularly put into a war deal with warring kingdoms.. no. But sometimes you want to pre-emptively prevent situations that have happened in the past by including them in the deals early. Adaptive Diplomacy.

[Korp]

Funny how Matija sime pages back told others not to gonofd topic and he would stop with the off topic posting..

[MyNameIsMatija]

At the time I posted that, pyro had waved for 30hrs... that's far from waiting for someone to get out of fortified...

And if you refer to my post about the "if they can wait for gbp/fortified to disappear, the tactic is understandable", you completely got the wrong idea about what I was posting...

That post was in respond to someone saying something along the lines of "wtf are they doing razing rather then tradm/learn", which I responded with the above, it was a discussion about WHY Pyro might be doing as they did, nothing about anything else... jeez all that for you not reading it proper..

You said something along the lines if their gains are low now, maybe they should wait for another wave when FS fortified ends or something like that... Well, whatever.

[Aranfein]

Matija I did no such thing... Maybe you should read back.

Stops you from opping them back and taking honour, maybe softening you for their smaller provs that lost a lot?

Raze puts you in size range of their smaller core that can hit to gain honour too though. I can see the strategy of razing if that's their goal, if not then I don't know.

I see no reason to be upset at the war itself, seeing they been friendlies for quite some ages now, the fact that Pyro returns to halt FS age by laying into them now seems rather petty as FS declined a round 2. - But that said Pyro is entitled to play the aftermath as they wish as they gained size to take some science/honour back if that is their goal.

End of the day FS deserved the win, whether they played to drag or not, turning back on a friendly kd to remove ww resources course you are hurt, by the way FS got their win, seems pretty petty to me.. Don't get me wrong you are in your right to do so, and I can appreciate you WD in favourable position to do just that, but just like I said to Francis in our talks early last age (I think it was), "Just course you can, doesn't mean you have to".

Afterall its they choice how to take the resources just like it was yours in war/previous age onslaught of a smaller KD.

I don't condone either FS play then or Pyros now, but as everyone says they are allowed and that's that. So take the hits from Pyro now, grow and come back at them.

Protector, I wouldn't know I can't see kd pages but razing to bring them in range of Pyros chained is not a bad idea if you can wait for gbp/fortified? to dissappear.. I could easily see it as pyro wanting to keep science and honour on those they raze until they are lowered enough for Pyros small.

So where do i say what you are refering to? I have been respectful and said the same thing everytime in different ways, if you can't see that i dont agree to what Pyro did, i think you need new reading glasses..

Jmiedema, i dont mean just your KD, i mean in general when it comes to that kind of CF.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Protector, I wouldn't know I can't see kd pages but razing to bring them in range of Pyros chained is not a bad idea if you can wait for gbp/fortified? to dissappear.. I could easily see it as pyro wanting to keep science and honour on those they raze until they are lowered enough for Pyros small. - if you can't see the logic in that then fair enough but I can.

Unless ofc ALL of Pyros are too big already then yes kinda pointless.

This is the one I was referring to. There you made me search for it. Don't know, everyone was bashing on FS for no reason and I read out what you said as some valid strategy on how Pyro should farm FS, it involves a KD waiting for another KD to be kicked out of fort and I was annoyed to be frank. It's all over now no reason to mull over it forever I think.