Kingdom NW disparity affect gains

[Toadi]

Toadi a lone province can take acres from your KD but he's not a threat to you

In my book a threat is someone who can take cares from my KD. It is an even bigger threat if I have to hit 5 or more times just to match a single of their hits. Lone provinces are huge threats for top KD.

It's true that a loner can take acres by abusing GB protection (which is the real problem, not KNRG).

KNRG and GB protection stacks up perfectly to pretty much nullify top KD gains. GB protection can get gains down to 20%. KNRG to 67%. Both stacked, the loner suffers 13% of normal losses. That's 8 hits to make up for 1 of their, instead of only 5 without KNRG. Nevertheless you are correct, GB is the most important factor here.

Nevertheless, when doing a single hit, you have to make sure that nobody in the KD you target can retal you, mostly because of KNRG. If I find a juicy T/M I will always hit there, unless there is an attacker as backup (at least for a while). Since you do not want to find someone who can retal you, then you have to go deeper in NW - KD and province wise - to find safe hits. If KNRG were removed, I could gamble on a hit of the T/M, because at worst I risk losing what I grab. Problematic, but not too bad. Because of KNRG, a KD mate could lose 150% of what I grab, and that's not an option. If KNRG was removed I'd bottomfeed way less than what I do when whoring.

[Realest]

well, ultimately, GS, gb protection and kd relative nw is multiplied as far as I know, so everything contributes to the equation. GB protection atm is definitely too strong as it is way too easy to go deep into it and the protection is well, strong :p

[freemehul]

Also, the NW range for war declaration should be reduced to perhaps 80-120% to discontinue fake wars.

signs



right now the NW disparity effects punishes the larger kingdom, this is true
play around with angel, swap panels if you have to and you will see that it is true

Example:

province A from kingdom 1 is 1500 acres and has a networth of 170000
province B from kingdom 2 is 1500 acres and has a networth of 170000
kingdom 1 has a combined networth of 2800000
kingdom 2 has a combined networth of 2600000

approximate gains for province A are between 112 and 137 acres
approximate gains for province B are between 146 and 179 acres


problem is though is that this socalled punishement isn't a punishment, it is at best a discouragement, since we all know that bigger kingdoms in networth always have more bigger provinces in terms of networth and nearly always in size of acres aswell.

Since acres is the foremost determinant of population size it is also the determinant of army size and since that is ultimately one of the foremost reasons that determines the outcome of the war, then there should be something done against abuse.

Now a good punishment of this abuse would be hard to implement, so lets just banish it alltogether by decreasing the networth range.

There are indeed many kingdoms that abuse the current situation, though I have to say not many of them are top kinghdoms, most who abuse it are however alliance kingdoms. HaJ (yes HaJ again, I'm getting tired of mentioning them time and again, but heck they are such an perfect example, due to them being the most evil alliance ever) is a particularly known for using war multies and other despeicable tactics (that i will not dwell into further) that lures or forces kingdoms (mostly ghettos) into wars they cannot win. I also seen AA use some of tactics of HaJ now, something I don't particularly like to see.


so yeah I am in favor of narrowing the networth range, I would narrow it down to 25%, not 20% though.

Here is why 25%.

Most normal kingdoms are in the range of 6 million. 50% of that is 3 million, which is basically ghetto, now we can all agree (at least those with some sense and morals), that battling a ghetto should not be done, because they are at least 2 classes below a normal kd and are sure of defeat.
25% lower you get your average lower tier kingdoms, they usually are not good, but they are not ghetto either. Potentially (though in practice rarely, I'd have top admit that), they can still win a war if they are good and active according to some guidelines (there is still a lot of kingdoms that use acre gains as a way to determine a victory, yes yes i know, but still), since it is possible for a normal kingdom to have a bad moment, king getting slacks on strategy, too many inactives, too many T/M's, etcetera, then there is also a way for this kingdom that by norm is a class lower to still be able to win. That difference in class I reckon is about 25% of a good standard warring kingdom.

20% is too narrow,
25% is doable,
50% is too much and prone to abuse

and 25% is still enough to give alliances like HaJ an headache (they haven't got enough kingdoms for that) and that is something I can always support.

[goodz]

removing honor is a better way to prevent people tricking ghettos into warring then reducing war range, what happens if a kd 30% larger then me waves me?

i can't war them

thats bull for good kds

[Arael]

removing honor is a better way to prevent people tricking ghettos into warring then reducing war range, what happens if a kd 30% larger then me waves me?

i can't war them

thats bull for good kds

you'd run into problems with this especially when it's a bank kd vs a non-bank kd, easily abusive.

[AFKain]

Raki if you would stop with your god awful quoting system you might be able to get your quotes right and they might even be readable. Kindly stop affixing my name to someone else's quotes.

depends on what range youre hitting them in first place. either way sooner or later you end up in situations were retalers have to be dealth with because tehre really is no one else you want to attack anyway.

Of course it depends on this but it is rather foolish to think that someone who hits your KD is going to be half your smallest guy's size already.

Its not used very often because a) not many retals b) not many kds are in a position where they "need" to do it.. and as i said, you dont really need to explain anything.. i think i got that part of the game covered..

You obviously didn't have this part "covered" when you just a few posts ago claimed that it is as big a part of the reason KDs retal as punishment is.

wtf does hybrids have to do with it? not like pure attackers wouldnt be just as able to do the same, heck theyd have more raw power and would be able to powerplay him easier.

You see, the tricky thing with them hybrids is that they do more than one thing, that'd be what makes them different from your standard attacker. These other things are usually stuff like NS and FB and such, as it happens those weapons can be used once the guy you want to force CF with goes unfriendly. I don't think I need to explain it any further, right? It is 25 to 1 so the t/m advantage is usually overwhelming.

[jtwirkus7]

ok for those that say they dont have kingdom networth differances here

i was orc last age had 10% milatary sci hit into a kingdom about 1 mil smaller for a random land grab he was slightly bigger networth than me and i took 232 acres. he didn't have gangbang protection and not much military sci, yet when he hit back he took 250 acres from me.. If there isn't a networth diffance for kingdoms then what is with those gains i got from him and he took from me.

[BladeMaster]

yes we know jtwirkus, well atleast those of us who have made use of the system and those who have tried to overcome it. which seems to be only a few people... maybe if the big guys in ghettos took up offense and stoped focusing on defense other people would know more about it.

[foolseye]

Have anyone considered the fact that most ghettoes LIKE that their overgrown provinces get whacked down? It's actually helping keep the provinces closer in nw...

[Catwalk]

Raki if you would stop with your god awful quoting system you might be able to get your quotes right and they might even be readable. Kindly stop affixing my name to someone else's quotes.

/signed

On the topic, I don't think it's unfair that big provinces in ghettoes get some measure of protection. Being able to achieve something in a weak kingdom is part of the game for a large number of players, it should be possible. But it gets problematic when it allows those giants to actively prey on top kingdoms specifically because they have a weak kingdom. I think the suggestion above of making the protection go both ways (ie. similar to province topfeeding and bottomfeeding penalties) might do the trick.

[RAKIdaRHINO]

never said it was greenie, so why quote me? =)

[RAKIdaRHINO]

AFKain
Raki if you would stop with your god awful quoting system you might be able to get your quotes right and they might even be readable. Kindly stop affixing my name to someone else's quotes.
my bad, no idea why that happened.. havent happened before.. and obviously wasnt intentional :)

Of course it depends on this but it is rather foolish to think that someone who hits your KD is going to be half your smallest guy's size already.
obviously not half, that doesnt give any gains.. 70-75% nw is more likely..

You obviously didn't have this part "covered" when you just a few posts ago claimed that it is as big a part of the reason KDs retal as punishment is.
Its not punishment, its about making sure they cnat mess with you anymore. As for whoring ive been pretty much in the top since oop..

You see, the tricky thing with them hybrids is that they do more than one thing,
No **** sherlock. Still fail to see how the hybrid role plays into the bottomfeeding game.

hese other things are usually stuff like NS and FB and such, as it happens those weapons can be used once the guy you want to force CF with goes unfriendly.
And how are you gonna get ops from one loner retaling you? Even if he was able to make enough hits you dont want the same guy to retal you more than once anyway, which is why you want to make sure that doesnt happen..

It is 25 to 1 so the t/m advantage is usually overwhelming.
Except that hes the one having the ops, not you. Sure, it protects you some, but thats about it. Going hybrid has very little to do with any offensive part of the bottomfeeding game.

[AFKain]

Sigh, you've taken my reasoning about hybrids totally out of context. Show me somewhere where I say that top KDs go hybrids so they can bottomfeed... That was taken from my conversation with Toadi about the strength of a KD compared to a lone province.

About hitting provinces down you're still wrong, you keep switching between this being the thing that everyone does and it not being used much like you can't decide. GB protections prevents downtaking to a great extent, it takes a whole lot of effort and isn't worth it very often.

[RAKIdaRHINO]

That was taken from my conversation with Toadi about the strength of a KD compared to a lone province.

ah well, i just dont see the relevance in that context either, but sure.. lets drop it.

About hitting provinces down you're still wrong, you keep switching between this being the thing that everyone does and it not being used much like you can't decide.

Que, i havent switched one bit. I said its something you sometimes have to do, but fortunately enough its not something that occurs very often. And yes, gbprot prevents it alot, never questioned that.

[Skeleton]

So baisicly, KNRG or no KNRG, To whore u need to bash those who u feed on, to make sure they cant dmg ur kd anymore and to take theyr acres ofc.
If u remove KNRG, then it will speed up bashing and whoring.

Id say make it work both way and make it stronger.
Solo province can still change hes targets, so its still good ;)