BIO vs ghettocats

[John Snowstorm]

They were perfectly reasonable.

stopped reading right there.

It is not reasonable to think you can steal from crown race kingdoms all age and not even respond to their messages.

Sure there's nothing in the game rules against it, but there's nothing in the game rules against double teaming either.

Palem: I don't know how you can miss the crux of the issue so many times while being so close to it. I also don't know why you are waffling stuff at me that is blatantly obvious to all and sundry, I have played and won in the top, I have also played t10 warring kds with FSU attitude.

AquaSeaFoams analogy is perfectly sound, and it seems even you understand why.

Well that's good for this age, but in future ages they're screwed

In your initial objection you said

You really think HoH is going to be upset with Sanc because the fight wasn't "fair"?

you really think that HoH's opinion is the only one that matters in that example? you really think that that is the end of the story?

[LukYspDe]

what amuses me the most is, in the end of this all, the only KDs that get hurt are the ones going for crown. if i were cats, and a GB was initiated on me, i'd have no problem screwing over the KD closest to crowning that participated in the GB next age. Top KDs fight for crown and play dirty, and they're the only ones that can lose.

[Elit]

citadela01, Elurin and rest from Cats. Look like you don't have any idea how work game in top and for this you gave complete wrong examples.
For begin playing for land is most hard and boring job because you spend 2/3 from your age to dice/explore and you can lose any time your land and end with noting. Being WW kds is very easy. You have your max activity in wars. After it 4 days rest and few days re-pump. Again new war and repeat it. If you get wave from much stronger kd you can refuse to war and none can take away your WW from kd page. When you play for land if you get wave you must strike back or age is over if your goal is n1. WW/Honor kds can be active in wars but they cant be active every day all age. For this they cant grow when they try it. Back to how work land chart. TOP kds start grow oop and after all good/free land targets is over they have 2 choices. Go war or go in dice set. If you go war and rest kd start dice you will be behind because dice gains early on age is much bigger from good war win gains. For this most kds do CFs till yr 5-8 with notice deals. Its can be 24-48-72h. Every kd try to get his best deal for use it later. From this time all top land kds are out from range from rest kds and they rare hit small kds. Every one have his fair opponents. Now there come kd like cats for example. They rob KD A. Some one come to ask for CF and you told him to go to hell. You rob kd B and repeat same. Both kds have good chances for win age so they cant bother with small kd like you and try to adapt his strat to your robing. Next age they don't play for n1 and you are there again. Try to guess if they will punish you....and there don't have any reason to make it fair. If you keep rob same kd/province for week or more its make all very personal. They will want to kill you and they have power to make it. Its what happen now to Cats. Try to learn from it.
I'm not saying you need to CF/nap all top kds. None can force you to make it. But there is difference from no CF and constant be in news paper in same kd. In old days system was different. KD A wave kd B right after war and FORCE them for accept nap or they don't stop hits. If you break deal later because you was forced you are dead again because alliance will step in. Now with CFs all is much more fair and dynamic. Diplomacy is 70% from game now in top. If you end in range with top kds learn to use it for your advantage!

[Sheister]

OK, too much for me to read. So, BiO is still butt hurt over having been treated like a farm by cats last age... and they are doing something about it now? They felt like they needed some sort of specialized kd setup to do it? just for cats? really?

damn ellurin, I did not think you were that good. I guess I feel better about myself now. awesome.

One day, maybe flogger will convince his whole KD to devote their lives to me too.

[Palem]

Palem: I don't know how you can miss the crux of the issue so many times while being so close to it. I also don't know why you are waffling stuff at me that is blatantly obvious to all and sundry, I have played and won in the top, I have also played t10 warring kds with FSU attitude.

AquaSeaFoams analogy is perfectly sound, and it seems even you understand why.



In your initial objection you said



you really think that HoH's opinion is the only one that matters in that example? you really think that that is the end of the story?

I was saying as if the three kds were operating independently. Not like HoH asked Sanc to gb Rage for them. As long as Sanc has a borderline reasonable excuse, they're pretty much off the hook.

But no. ASF's analogy doesn't work too well because the real good athletes don't just want to win. They want to beat the best, when the best are at their best. That might be a sentiment that's fading with today's sports where Pacquiao v Maywhether prolly won't happen or where NBA players would rather team up than prove that they're better than each other, but still. In this game, it doesn't matter so much how you win, but rather, that you do.

A good example might be if say the Bulls got the champ and then Rose got hurt and they were swept by say the Thunder. Obviously all the fans, and clearly the bulls would be disappointed, likewise if #1v#2 in Utopia would happen and #2 got gangbanged or something before the war, we the community would be upset, along with #2. Now, the thunder, while they're happy they won, would be left wanting more. The finals should be like the pinnacle of competition for the whole league, and it wasn't. Where as in utopia, there's such an emphasis on winning and not about competition, if #1 farmed out #2 because of a gb, I would expect something along the lines of this statement from them...

"#2 should rename themselves Farmville. Stop whining and sack up next time. We crowned. Get over it!"

Utopia has such an incredibly elitist community compared to other communities, such as popular sports. If you haven't crowned, then you're a worthless ghetto and your opinions are minimal (ask Simians). It doesn't matter how much you try, it doesn't matter what the circumstances are, it doesn't matter how successful you've been in other areas. If you haven't won, then you're second-class. That's why kds go to such lengths as scummy play to win, because it's so incredibly important in this community. You think Inso wanted to crown last age because it's "so much fun dicing all age"? No, they wanted to be a part of the 'first-class' utopians and be taken seriously as a kd.

Compare that to other popular sports and it just doesn't compare. If you win, yes, you're certainly in the 'fraternity of the winners', but they gladly recognize the great teams/players who could never quite get over the hump or win. If you ask the critics who the best team in (American) football is, they don't say the Giants (the champions last age), it's the Packers.

[Elit]

Utopia has such an incredibly elitist community compared to other communities, such as popular sports. If you haven't crowned, then you're a worthless ghetto and your opinions are minimal (ask Simians). It doesn't matter how much you try, it doesn't matter what the circumstances are, it doesn't matter how successful you've been in other areas. If you haven't won, then you're second-class. That's why kds go to such lengths as scummy play to win, because it's so incredibly important in this community. You think Inso wanted to crown last age because it's "so much fun dicing all age"? No, they wanted to be a part of the 'first-class' utopians and be taken seriously as a kd.

You moderated so many posts from FTF and you are affected from it :P Serious i think is started around Sonata ? when n00bs like Syntico started to cont all crowns and talk for it. Its complete nonsense for me. Now all server is affected from this. Now i can understand why ABS was so mad on sonata. They are like virus!

OK, too much for me to read. So, BiO is still butt hurt over having been treated like a farm by cats last age... and they are doing something about it now? They felt like they needed some sort of specialized kd setup to do it? just for cats? really?

damn ellurin, I did not think you were that good. I guess I feel better about myself now. awesome.

One day, maybe flogger will convince his whole KD to devote their lives to me too.

Cute cat. There is no way for BIO to know what setup is pick ellurin to can make his "specialized kd setup" for you. Dont think so high for yourself. No one is bother to make his setup based to second kd setup.

[Palem]

You can call it the 'trollfag' effect if you'd like, but there is a hint of truth to their garbage. Kds like Sl33py, Copy Cats, Secrets, Freeakstyle, ect are and will always be secondary to say, HoH who I think has 1 crown, which was due to avoiding a large-scale dispute. (I'm happy to be corrected, but you get my point)

[Elit]

You can call it the 'trollfag' effect if you'd like, but there is a hint of truth to their garbage. Kds like Sl33py, Copy Cats, Secrets, Freeakstyle, ect are and will always be secondary to say, HoH who I think has 1 crown, which was due to avoiding a large-scale dispute. (I'm happy to be corrected, but you get my point)

Sleepy never won age but they never had goal to win. I don't think sleepy was less good kd from hoh, actually they was much better. Cant comment for Secret, i dont know them well enough. About cats... i hear for them for first time this age. From what they post its clear they are still pure war ghetto and have very long way to go.

Edit:
Well if periphrases your sentence: Top land kds opinion was much more respected and valid from waring/honor kds. Its have simple explain. Who is bigger he is stronger = who pay he order music ;)

[John Snowstorm]

wtf are you rambling about palem?

no, it is not going to be an 'off the hook' situation if you f*ck my prep for a crown battle, whether you are operating independently or not.

please go back to dicing your faeries and thinking you don't have an effect on the top.

[Palem]

no, it is not going to be an 'off the hook' situation if you f*ck my prep for a crown battle, whether you are operating independently or not.

There's a difference between making enemies and crossing social lines. Yea, Rage would be hunting for Sanc for the next few ages, but I doubt any others would step in also. Would be seen as a dispute between the two kds. Not the same as say a butterfly nebula situation where the community deals with a clear issue.

[John Snowstorm]

lol, you are merely moving the goalposts.

case in point; cats have done this **** to multiple kds, so multiple kds want to pay em back.

[flogger]

Further more you took part in mutual gc robbin with them this age, which aknowledges it as acceptable in my eyes and puts you at the same level with them, and removes any moral high grounds with which you could possibly justify doubling them.

Everything in utopia stems from one "dirty" play onto another. Then someone responds harder, then that person seeks revenge until usually people get bored and fight someone else.

I have my own set of morals, things that I think are right and things that I think aren't. You claimed "isn't that what pulse and BIO were all about, 1 on 1 FSU kingdoms" Pulse never seriously banked or tried to crown before I joined. BIO never spent as much time dicing as they did this age before fighting someone. Equating me with either of those kingdoms reputations is silly. I pretty much only was able to have a leadership role in both of those kingdoms due to leadership burnout of the existing leaders at the time I joined.

My reputation used to be I liked to get in a lot of ego fights, and fight alliance wars. When I rejoined this new sense of everything being 1 on 1 came up and is the norm now. In my opinion its boring as hell. The game isn't that diverse. There are maybe 5 good buildings, maybe 3 good thief ops and maybe 2 good spells to cast. There aren't that many combinations that inspire diversity. Get strong fearies and a race with good economy and a lotta offense and don't care about gaining acres and you'll win every war you fight vs someone who didn't pick a good race choice. We didn't pick elf rogue because we thought it was the best setup in the world. After age after age of doing the same thing over and over again, sometimes its fun to try something different that may or may not be good. Sometimes you find something that no one else does and it works awesomely and its incredible. Winning an age doing something everyone else does is fun, coming up with strategies and off the wall things is what I mostly enjoy doing, since I've already done orc/avian tact/merchant about 4 times already and gets boring.

The only fun part of the game is picking races and strategies at the start of the age. After the age warring and strategies are quite boring and repetitive in my eyes.

The fun part of the game for me is the politics, and the battle of egos. I can only assure you that the game was infinitely more fun when it was played more like the wild wild west. That requires alot of work (presumably to be in college or younger) to really play well. I've adapted and become calmer and in my eyes been relatively timid and gone along with this 1 on 1 thing, but that's not what I truly find fun whatsoever.

Every age I played from age 2 or 13 involved some sort of alliance type war action. The abs folks can confirm that I got really excited when sonata GB'd abs since that was my first true fun since rejoining. I remember fondly all the ego battles of yore, and the only memorable enjoyable wars I've had are where I won and gained a ton of acres and crowned, which was 2. The rest I either won and barely gained land and didn't crown or lost and gained acres by withdrawing. Neither of those qualified as fun.

[Elit]

Wonder if should report inso for: being silent. Still no one from them posted there. Maybe flogger and his multies control all accounts in inso, or maybe today is Friday 13th and they have party!

[Palem]

moving the goal posts? lol

It's a bit like two top boxers/mma fighters/football teams/whatever battling. The kingdoms involved and even others watching don't want the results to be determined by which kingdom got thieved the most by a third party before the fight. It's like if a football team got roughed up on their way to the match and then couldn't compete properly and therefore the game was ruined. Although it is apparently fun for the ones doing the robbing, it ruins the fun for all those wanting to see a "fair" fight between the top kingdoms.

My argument was that whoever is on the winning side of the issue doesn't care because winning is winning in utopia. The rest of the analogy is fine. The 'audience' is disappointed and the recipient is clearly angry and will be seeking revenge, but the athletes who benefited from the "roughing up" lost something that they didn't lose in Utopia, because winning honorably is just as important as winning less-honorably.

edit:
example: bradley over pacquiao

[flogger]

Further more you took part in mutual gc robbin with them this age, which aknowledges it as acceptable in my eyes and puts you at the same level with them, and removes any moral high grounds with which you could possibly justify doubling them.

Everything in utopia stems from one "dirty" play onto another. Then someone responds harder, then that person seeks revenge until usually people get bored and fight someone else.

I have my own set of morals, things that I think are right and things that I think aren't. You claimed "isn't that what pulse and BIO were all about, 1 on 1 FSU kingdoms" Pulse never seriously banked or tried to crown before I joined. BIO never spent as much time dicing as they did this age before fighting someone. Equating me with either of those kingdoms reputations is silly. I pretty much only was able to have a leadership role in both of those kingdoms due to leadership burnout of the existing leaders at the time I joined.

My reputation used to be I liked to get in a lot of ego fights, and fight alliance wars. When I rejoined this new sense of everything being 1 on 1 came up and is the norm now. In my opinion its boring as hell. The game isn't that diverse. There are maybe 5 good buildings, maybe 3 good thief ops and maybe 2 good spells to cast. There aren't that many combinations that inspire diversity. Get strong fearies and a race with good economy and a lotta offense and don't care about gaining acres and you'll win every war you fight vs someone who didn't pick a good race choice. We didn't pick elf rogue because we thought it was the best setup in the world. After age after age of doing the same thing over and over again, sometimes its fun to try something different that may or may not be good. Sometimes you find something that no one else does and it works awesomely and its incredible. Winning an age doing something everyone else does is fun, coming up with strategies and off the wall things is what I mostly enjoy doing, since I've already done orc/avian tact/merchant about 4 times already and gets boring.

The only fun part of the game is picking races and strategies at the start of the age. After the age warring and strategies are quite boring and repetitive in my eyes.

The fun part of the game for me is the politics, and the battle of egos. I can only assure you that the game was infinitely more fun when it was played more like the wild wild west. That requires alot of work (presumably to be in college or younger) to really play well. I've adapted and become calmer and in my eyes been relatively timid and gone along with this 1 on 1 thing, but that's not what I truly find fun whatsoever.

Every age I played from age 2 or 13 involved some sort of alliance type war action. The abs folks can confirm that I got really excited when sonata GB'd abs since that was my first true fun since rejoining. I remember fondly all the ego battles of yore, and the only memorable enjoyable wars I've had are where I won and gained a ton of acres and crowned, which was 2. The rest I either won and barely gained land and didn't crown or lost and gained acres by withdrawing. Neither of those qualified as fun.