Quote Originally Posted by ata View Post
It looks like people are talking past eachother, so I'll try to summarize the premises of the two sides. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

Shiester, rsjabba and co seem to be saying "utopia is a war game, and anyone whose goal is growth is 'doing it wrong'. The game's mechanics should making warring balanced. If growth mechanics are unbalanced, that's ok because players shouldn't be growing anyway."

therock, dorje, and mal seem to be saying "the growth mechanics--particularly war range and dicing--are unbalanced/boring and we should fix them" I didn't see them acknowledge the effect of war range on people who don't care about growth.


Is there some mechanic that satisfies both constraints? I think some form of "declare peace" would work.
Ata - not quite accurate.

Sheister is ignoring everything said by anyone with any real knowledge of top kingdom mechanics and is consequently being ignored by those people.

rsjabba seems to think that growing kingdoms should wave each other more and fight more, and it's their own fault for growing. His comments reflect a belief that top kingdoms don't fight much early on, that CFs are given to allow the kingdoms to "get away" and that they should "wave each other more". I am hopeful that he will read the posts made by other players and come to understand why two kingdoms fighting sets them behind all other kingdoms under the current mechanics, as the war system in place promotes this behavior, and comes to learn that top kingdoms do fight a lot early on, but put CFs up after the fighting is done.

dorje wants comprehensive changes made to the races, both for networth and offense/defense balance. He wants the declaration range limits rebalanced, with limitations in place to prevent the farm warring and bottomfeed declaring issues from before. He wants exploration fixed to allow the smaller kingdoms to use it, as they currently have no good means to do so (to wit - exploring up chained provinces in warring kingdoms is now twice as expensive as before). He wants wars among top kingdoms to become beneficial to those kingdoms, as opposed to the current mutual stalling that they are now. To date, nobody has comprehensively provided real and meaningful feedback on most of these suggestions, but most seem very opposed to some issues, even though evidence strongly refutes them. The proposed changes provide significant improvements to gameplay.

TheRock and Mal fully support dorje's proposed changes and have made limited efforts to engage with people regarding their concerns and issues by providing real examples and reasons. By and large, those have been ignored or overlooked, in favor of people repeating their positions instead of responding to the points raised.