Simians waving into an active hostile

[Palem]

Once again... a situation that could be avoided if the bottom feed gains formula was fixed so that significantly larger kingdoms were no longer able to feed on smaller ones too.. but the last time we tried to raise that particular issue the response was "bottom feed protection works perfectly.. end of discussion.".. anybody care to guess which particular moderator gave that response? lol

Bottom feed protection works perfectly fine.

[Chuck]

Bottom feed protection works perfectly fine.

I agree with Palem. Why should a small kd be able to grow huge provinces that can hit into large kds, but cannot be retaliated upon in equal terms?

[Kestrel038]

Then topfeeding would be overpowered. That's just as dangerous.

we have been through all this before.. and the response was exactly as Palem stated. And no, topfeeding wouldn't have to be overpowered in return.

If the gains formula were set so that for example.. once a kingdom was 50% or 200% of your own size (which I believe are the current conditions for auto-war win), gains were zero on either side it would prevent both silly bottomfeeding and silly topfeeding.

The current formula which theoretically allows a 30 mill kingdom with a few relatively small provinces to attack 3 mill kingdoms with appropriately sized provs for 50-60% gains is ridiculous and does nothing to deter bottomfeeding.

And for all the talk that said 3 mill kingdom could retal for 100% gains without penalty may stand up in pure mathematics, but when faced with potential razekilling by the 1 mill+ provinces in said 30 mill kingdom, and any claims of fairness are pure rhetoric.

The problem is the cap on the gains penalty. if it continued to slide all the way to zero.. and a similar mechanism was introduced so that a high rknw also induced a penalty (albeit with an initial benefit so that "slightly" smaller kingdoms still had the ability to fight back), then all the problems of massive kingdoms feeding on relatively tiny ones could be avoided.. but then as we all know, that is how the kd's at the top of the charts stay there.. by feeding on kingdoms that have no realistic chance of fighting back without being razekilled

[octobrev]

You can't change the bottomfeed mechanics because the majority of vocal players come from top kingdoms and would never agree to it. There, I said it.

[Palem]

The current formula which theoretically allows a 30 mill kingdom with a few relatively small provinces to attack 3 mill kingdoms with appropriately sized provs for 50-60% gains is ridiculous and does nothing to deter bottomfeeding.

And for all the talk that said 3 mill kingdom could retal for 100% gains without penalty may stand up in pure mathematics, but when faced with potential razekilling by the 1 mill+ provinces in said 30 mill kingdom, and any claims of fairness are pure rhetoric.

Fear mongering. Classic.
A 30 Million nw kd wouldn't waste their time razekilling some ghetto that did a fair retal on a crappy hit.

Bottomfeeding mechanics stand up not only in mathematics, but in logic as well.

[Kestrel038]

You can't change the bottomfeed mechanics because the majority of vocal players come from top kingdoms and would never agree to it. There, I said it.

lmao.. did you say that before or after I said it in IRC?? lol

[octobrev]

Directly before.

[Kestrel038]

Fear mongering. Classic.
A 30 Million nw kd wouldn't waste their time razekilling some ghetto that did a fair retal on a crappy hit.

Bottomfeeding mechanics stand up not only in mathematics, but in logic as well.

a 30 mill nw kd could do whatever they wanted Palem. You cannot speak for every monarch in the top 20 rankings. Even a single wave of quad razes by the 30 mill kingdom ruins the smaller kingdom. But rather than look at a way to prevent it happening, you simply hide behind "oh they wouldn't do that anyway". which really isn't the way to look at things.

Maybe it isn't the bottom feed formula that needs fixing.. maybe it's the raze formula that ignores nw that needs fixing. If razekilling was more difficult, then it would not be such a threat against retalling a bottomfeeder. As it stands, it IS a threat, and it is what certain top kds rely on to feed freely on smaller kingdoms.

You can sit there all you want and justify the formula, but the fact is.. it favours the bigger "kingdom" in the situation I described regardless of how it favours the "province" in the smaller kingdom.

[goodz]

Bottom feed protection works perfectly fine.

I actually do think a 2 way protection may be okayish. giving up to 75% reduced gains. AKA if you topfeed on a KD 100% bigger you have -75%, if they bottomfeed to 50% their size KD they also have -75%.

It wouldn't prevent the bottomfeeding that occurs but it would probably limit it some.

[Lestat]

I read another page and for the record Chuck is a nice man!

[Bishop]

Once again... a situation that could be avoided if the bottom feed gains formula was fixed so that significantly larger kingdoms were no longer able to feed on smaller ones too.. but the last time we tried to raise that particular issue the response was "bottom feed protection works perfectly.. end of discussion.".. anybody care to guess which particular moderator gave that response? lol

Gains have absolutely nothing to do with this :/

[American Badass]

If you don't want to be bottom fed, grow and stop razing down to get easier wars. Yeah I said it.

[LameBeaver]

Topic of waving to hostility shifted to completely unrelated bottom-feeding mechanics.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4wh7kY75E1r5atfd.jpg

Here guys let me help you:

Several days ago our kingdom and simians exchanged a number of hits, and we received full op coverage from them (MS, AW, NS, etc). This was while we were in the early stages of a hostile with another kingdom (KD A). After relations between our kingdoms went from "Unfriendly" to "Normal", Simians mostly left us alone. They then hit into our hostile again and accepted a Cease Fire, and Anri personally gave us this reassurance:



A few hours ago (26 hours after that statement and the CF), this happened:



We are now 100+ hours into our initial hostile. It is very much still active, and both kingdoms are tagged as such with locations in their names. One of our provinces proceeded to make an attack, targeted at KD A. This was Simians response:



We are significantly smaller than Simians. We are in a 100+ hour hostile with a later kingdom already. Anri already gave us his assurance that he would respect that. How Anri & Co can expect to be taken seriously after all they have done over the last 10 ages is beyond me. From the very stupid triple noticing Abs, to NAP breaking Csarmi and then double crossing him, to now out-right breaking their word and hitting into an active hostile with a kingdom they already closed relations with.

GG.

You're welcome.

[Bishop]

If you don't want to be bottom fed, grow and stop razing down to get easier wars. Yeah I said it.

Not relevant to this situation. No one has razed down, no one is being bottom fed, no one even mentioned it until someone who hadn't read the thread started discussing it.

[American Badass]

I was talking to the dude moaning of bottom feeding. To me this thread is resolved and should be locked. Don't see why people are still posting about the events. It's in all this 19 pages of garbage if they can be bothered to read it.

If they can't be bothered to read it all they shouldn't post about anything.