Fratzia vs ED

[ciupi]

can u please just stop using the argument "Fratzia lied to us about not having us on the list"? You were told so because no1 belived u are stupid enough to use ur explore pool and because we knew that there is this mini possibility we didn't make any CF with ED. We did right and there was absolutly no deal between Fratzia and ED except the notice that was sent and respected!

AGAIN , i say if u would have choosen to run in the proper way and not made Fratzia train up and use resources and not made us belive u will fight (which ofc looked stupid,but ED did so many stupid things this age that nothing seems stupid anymore) also nothing would have happened! But NO! U choose to mislead and run into an ARRANGED WAR (3rd time in a row this age) and yes hitting into a war is not legit, but we accept the consequences of this actions(ITS LIKE THE 100x times i said this), but what ED did was ****play 3rd time in a row and they had to be stopped and also (so ppl wion't say i'm hypocrit and not accept facts) Fratzia had to take what they came for(which we didn't ...we took 18k acres instead of farming ED out like it was going to happen due to their stupid mistakes) given we spent many resources preparing the war.

Parth, silverfox or the other trolls that come here and try to say they did all by the rules i have a question for u : I hear that ED is spread into 2 now. The ones that belive Fratzia was entitled to do what they did and the ones that don't....what are you going to do about that? I also hear Parth is the stuborn one that keeps pushing he is right and the grudje is kept on fire by him! (btw i have logs on this i'm saying) Make up ur minds already cause when ur war with Pyro is over u have to take another important decision(u know what i am talking about). I hope u make the right choise this time after so many wrong ones.

[Korp]

There is nothing wrong with arranged wars, so why use that as an argument for anything ciupi? Its not ****playing, play your cards better next time then. Now you are just crying in the forums and trying to justify your actions with throwing **** on ED. Its like AMA would come and cry about how SWEA was running last age (oh wait they did) when we had a optimal notice deal with Simians so we didnt need to get into a conflict with AMA. Did they hit into our war cause of that? No.

[ciupi]

please point me where i'm making excuses? i just said we belive that was done was done justifyed in this situation and if the other top kds belive we didn't do so we will accept the consequences...that was to sum it up!

[Korp]

please point me where i'm making excuses? i just said we belive that was done was done justifyed in this situation and if the other top kds belive we didn't do so we will accept the consequences...that was to sum it up!

You are throwing **** at ED calling what they did as ****play as that somehow would justify your actions. If you accept what you did you wouldnt go around spewing out **** about how ED plays dirty you would just man and take punishment if it occurs.

[ciupi]

well that is not making up excuses...it's the reality...there is a big difference there! ED **** plays! they did that 3 times in a row this age! simple facts!

EDIT: To draw a picture u need all the details, otherwise why not only put the frame?

[Korp]

well that is not making up excuses...it's the reality...there is a big difference there! ED **** plays! they did that 3 times in a row this age! simple facts!

Its a matter of opinion, you think its ****playing doesnt mean its a universal fact.

[ABSLover]

There is nothing wrong with arranged wars, so why use that as an argument for anything ciupi? Its not ****playing, play your cards better next time then. Now you are just crying in the forums and trying to justify your actions with throwing **** on ED. Its like AMA would come and cry about how SWEA was running last age (oh wait they did) when we had a optimal notice deal with Simians so we didnt need to get into a conflict with AMA. Did they hit into our war cause of that? No.

Why so much hate on AMA? You should be thanking them!

Why I dont see SWEA in T30?

[Korp]

Why so much hate on AMA? You should be thanking them!

Why I dont see SWEA in T30?

Ive posted my opinion about that already, feel free to read back random troll. Besides, I was giving cred to AMA in the post you quote.

[Proteus]

There is nothing wrong with arranged wars, so why use that as an argument for anything ciupi? Its not ****playing, play your cards better next time then. Now you are just crying in the forums and trying to justify your actions with throwing **** on ED. Its like AMA would come and cry about how SWEA was running last age (oh wait they did) when we had a optimal notice deal with Simians so we didnt need to get into a conflict with AMA. Did they hit into our war cause of that? No.

There is generally nothing wrong with arranging a real war. Arranging war 1h before notice ends and mass exploring going into it will be see as wrong by the server and the kd doing is liable to be hit for it. There is a degree of tolerance for BS amongst kd leaders and this was Ed's 3rd time running from conflct...had they ran before fratzia used resources to train (24h before) or had they at least not massively explored before running to war chances are they wouldn't get hit. Regardless of what people say it is completely NOT NORMAL to do a massive explore and then run into war, it doesn't happen in the top. You see people explore , get caught with pants down and declare nonetheless and get punished (RBL this age) but that's not what ed did. Regardless of "right" or "wrong" fratzia thought ed did something lame and hit them into war for it, people have their own moral compass...no point in discussing it but pretty much everyone agrees Ed did stupid and lame things this age, you can arrive at that conclusion independently by reading posts .

[Flicksand]

Outplayerz is on the board for 780.

[coss]

dude !! you killed them!! Keep up the good job! Ride it like a pr0nstar!

[Going to Change]

Your image was successfully uploaded to Outplayerzz Kingdom (x:x), and is now being displayed.

[coss]

The eye of Sauron is upon you mate!

[Elldallan]

<Lots of text, see the original post for full details>

First of all, thanks for your serious response, it sort of caught me off guard, usually people do nothing but troll these forums. :P

Well, I'm not exactly trying to play devil's advocate although I admit that I certainly enjoy doing so on occasion.

It isn't my opinion that ED should or shouldn't do anything, you're certainly free to do whatever you want. I'm just trying to say that at least trying to do diplo before trying to run could likely have resolved the situation. It is obvious that the rest of the top kd's wouldn't let you run into arranged war time after time after time. Eventually it was gonna fail violently, I'm honestly sruprised it didn't happen earlier.

While I agree that notice is in no way a "dibs" automatic war in 48h thing it still gives the noticing kingdom some validity in their actions, especially considering it was your third time in a row, as I said it should have been obvious to most people that it was going to end this way one way or another.

Fratzia may very well not have had any intentions to go after you but by exploring your pool you massively changed the situation, again it should be obvious that anyone who could notice you was going to notice you because the other top kingdoms are all trying to win too.

But the resources that Fratzia do matter because it sort of "goes to the opponent's state of mind". If they expend all those resources they are going to want to have an outlet for them(you or any other kinhdom they can rebound on when you try to dodge), so when there were noone else to rebound on they waved into your war because they saw it as you running for the third time in a row and decided to not accept it.
I'm not trying to weigh in on whether this is right or wrong, I'm merely trying to explain why it should be obvious to most people that something like this was going to happen sooner or later. And yes I can understand why you weren't thrilled about doing diplo because if you had resolved it with Fratzia then AMA was going to come after you again, and if you resolved things with AMA then eventually Havoc, BB and everyone else would come gunning for you.

Mechanically there's nothing wrong with running but as for morally, well that depends on the individual since morals/ethics is a very personal thing.

Elit/Fratzia has their own views on what is right and wrong in this situation, and I would be tempted to agree with them that you were intentionally trying to abuse the system had you gone to war with pewpew a third time and considering that pewpew have already cheated it's not such a hard stretch that they'd try to cheat again, as to whether you would have been a willing/knowing participant in such an attempt to cheat is something only you know.

I would disagree that the game is built all that much on public opinion, sure we here on the forum is all very loudmouthed for sure but the times the community has acted on somebody when it wasn't in their interest to do so is practically nonexistent. Pretty much all the times in the past when a kingdom has been punished by "the community" it has been a small subset that has a very strong self interest in seeing that the target gets punished.
Yes most people who support the views of AMA/Fratzia obviously plays in that camp, the same thing can be said for a significant part of the other side.

Well the "top kd moral code" in this I'd say derives from the fact that this result would pretty much have been inevitable between any two top kingdoms and in the past the top was usually polarized between a few big alliances and while everybody wants to win nobody wants an alliance war, it's quite realistic to compare it with the cold war in the real world, nobody wanted a nuclear war to end all life on earth but neither side wanted to step down, so they fought skirmishes and tried to undercut each other at every turn but rarely going as far as to open conflict.
And saying that the top kingdoms screws over everybody else on the server is simply not true because only a relatively small percentage of the server will be in range of them after the first 1-2 weeks of the age, and during those first 1-2 weeks they don't want anyone getting too pissed at them since they're quite vulnerable at this stage.
Yes they certainly screw the game for all explorers but then again, explowhoring is almost never teamplay so I have no pity for them either way. the top have their morals based on avoiding alliance wars, by their definition screwing with anybody who doesn't have backup is not just ok, it's encouraged, but most people in the game will never be at the receiving end.
In the past when raze inwar still existed top kingdoms really screwed the game for a few unlucky kingdoms per top kingdom per age, because they'd get 1-2 wars while they were still hiding and small enough to still be in range of most of the server, it typically completely devastated the unfortunate kingdom and there was typically a lot of crying and promises to quit the game. Fortunately this has changed, and it's one reason I'm sceptic towards everybody who wants to limit the growth of top kingdfoms and force them to war more, because you really don't want them to war the average kingdom more because the average kingdom would be devastated by it. I used to play in a top kd back then so I've done my fair share of this, it is what it is, it's how the game worked back then and what you had to do to compete, some of this attitude still survives to this day and it's why the top have "rules" for how you're "supposed to compete".

[zmasternr1]

Fratzia, the most notorious xlogging kd and oow farmer in utopian history as the upholder of game etics. Yay