A Resolution: On Ethics and Top Play

[MegasX]

You're right on the latter part, and the general hope is that the alliance that's stronger is relatively reasonable. For the most part abs was fairly reasonable but there were ofc a few instances where others didn't think so.

There was plenty of flamefest the age simians farmed out by plenty, dunno if it was from sanc or not, but that's a little different circumstance in the fact that one of you 3 were definitely going to win and the farmout only affected which one of you did. It had a lasting effect on the actual crown winner because abs never made an agreement to fight eachother in such spots, which was why I left abs to begin with. The age after I left abs, for example, ZZ was in our group and we were 1/2 and fought for the crown the last week after the non-abs kds had won.

But in sanctuary's case, its a little hard for you to flamefest simians for farming out to one of your allies after they farmed out to your ally because you hit in their war. If I recall that age simians was likely going to lose to any of the three of you, all the abs kds had the time (1 tick when notice expired) to initiate on them in fort, none did, simians initiated on HoH, war was declared and sanctuary then hit into them after war was declared. Fairly hard for Sanctuary to flamefest that since they both had the opportunity to get the fight themselves by hitting into fort and to not discourage simians by not waving into their war giving them no chance.

We didnt hit into that war.Atleast I dont remember so.If there were one or two hits it was because we didnt notice they were in war.I asked everyone to stop hits immediately as soon as we noticed they entered a war.

[Palem]

Off topic, but Palem is 2 different people.

...wut?

[The Moon]

••*•*••• ***•*•••

[KuhaN]

Off topic, but Palem is 2 different people. - And still off topic; can guys tag for crying out loud? I'm too lazy to keep notes on coordinates. - On topic. You guys do whatever makes you comfortable instead of all this discomfort.

Agree with tag.

People and their dumb**** themes (my kd included).

[Jono]

This was some of the weakest **** i have ever seen in the top and all of the KDs included here is so lame that i dont even have words for it.

All i can say is that i am very glad we choose to stay out of t10 this age.

This kind of thing sickens me, i feel like puking. Not sure who is worst, Rage for bending over and playing the honorable card or the other side.

I think the most fitting word i can find for this is P A T H E T I C

First time EVER that I have agreed with Anri... this is such a flipping joke. Lets not kid ourselves here... the impact is bigger than it looks. Likely Rage would not be able to hold those acres, but whats really happening here is AMA gets them removed from contention for 100% and is free to farm further down the list. Without this they would have to spend a week tied up with rage meanwhile leaving fratzia/hoh/someone else to further grow/pump. This just basically hands it over and screws the rest of the t5 that arent in the BB/AMA/EJ club.

bravo morons.

[Drixx]

I appreciate the opposing opinions in the thread, and I can see that apparently there has not yet been enough ****play that people are tired enough for it that all can agree to end it. People should really not delude themselves though on one point: If we had fought, it would have been because we felt there was something to gain by doing so. Ultimately we would have farmed a huge chunk of acres to either AMA or BB, so in the end nobody is "screwed" by our choice to take the chart shaping out of play. Nobody was going to overcome whichever of those two kds finally ran us out of gas and then took us for 30k+ acres plus warwin bonus.

To believe someone could have somehow caught up to the 270k+ range and beat AMA or BB after they were done farming us and then beat them is so unrealistic so as to seem like merely a pretense for stirring the pot.

I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. When intentional farmout cost Rage crowns, I was angry about it. Playing kingmaker or "going down with a fight" would have been highly hypocritical. I put forward an attempt to make a statement about the top needing some agreed upon standards and the backbone to enforce them, regardless of whether violators are friends or foes. People will either get tired enough of the ****play and that will happen, or it will continue to get worse until there ceases to be any game.

We aren't going to tolerate any ****play we have the power to stop going forward. I believe we've put our money where our mouth is and when we say that we play with clean ethics, we've demonstrated that we mean it. Even though BB/AMA/EJ are our opponents, it would be ethically wrong to screw them out of a fair competition. So when we step in and take action against ****play in the future, nobody will be able to say we're doing it only because it benefits us. Take a look at this thread and see people who are friends, allies and even one of the people in my kingdom who is in our leadership who are angry with this decision. Making it cost us an ally (at least for the moment ... I'm hoping that time will calm things down a bit, but we'll see). This decision clearly wasn't made for our benefit.

If you have ethical standards and you really believe in them, sometimes that obligates you to act against your own self-interest. The game has devolved into the state it is at the top right now because kds don't apply a consistent ethical standard in all cases. It's much like warring really. Sometimes you have the advantage and sometimes you don't. If you change you ethics to suit your benefit, then you have no ethics. I hope that all of the top kds will take some time to consider the past few ages and to put themselves in the shoes of the kds who got ****played and screwed and that we can find common ground and stop manipulating what 'fair' and 'right' mean.

That said, RBL has two core things which make up our ethos, and in this instance they were in conflict. We always fight hard and won't run from a fight (so you won't see us arranging to war a 3rd party because we have the disadvantage) and we play ethically. Given the very large amount of ****play these last few ages, I felt that ethics superseded the "go down fighting" mentality.

I don't want anyone to misconstrue what I said in the previous sentence so let me be very clear. Giving notice to a kd doesn't entitle you to fight them. The proper thing to do if a kd fights someone else is to simply wait and hit them afterward. I personally believe that running from fights causes more problems for the kd running, but if someone runs, that doesn't make it acceptable to ****play them.

Top kds and alliances or friendly kds to one another would do well to consider that things shift frequently and while it's easy to walk all over people when you have the power to prevent them from fighting back, the scales will eventually tip away from your favor, and people have long memories. Better for all, I think, if people would get together and wipe the slates all clean and start fresh with a commitment to play with whatever standards everyone can agree to live with. Whenever you all get tired enough of the ****play, we'll be around.

[flogger]

hey wtf flogger, i never farmed!

Sure you did, and now after talking with Webbie you're more likely to know who Nailz was.

[Elit]

Respect to Drixx for his reall and objective view in situation. Choice never was GB, its was 1vs1 war where its clear Rage cant survive but this will give huge advantage AMA over BB or BB over AMA and its unfair for all involved. Was hard for all us to make deal but im glad we made it. Cant understand why haters/trolls wanted to see us GB/Farm Rage.

[KuhaN]

Respect to Drixx for his reall and objective view in situation. Choice never was GB, its was 1vs1 war where its clear Rage cant survive but this will give huge advantage AMA over BB or BB over AMA and its unfair for all involved. Was hard for all us to make deal but im glad we made it. Cant understand why haters/trolls wanted to see us GB/Farm Rage.

Yeah and this is why they would've been GB'd, why AMA get the cake, we want some too

saD.

[ZodZilla]

Why not just apply to AMA? After all a kingdom would be hard-pressed to have too many Batmen.

[Milkman]

I would say this agreement is a massive victory for AMA, BB and Jerks. They have taken out on of strongest competitors without a fight and get as bonus to it RBL blocking the rest for them. Congratz on getting the top 3 spots nameless alliance :)

[Elldallan]

First time EVER that I have agreed with Anri... this is such a flipping joke. Lets not kid ourselves here... the impact is bigger than it looks. Likely Rage would not be able to hold those acres, but whats really happening here is AMA gets them removed from contention for 100% and is free to farm further down the list. Without this they would have to spend a week tied up with rage meanwhile leaving fratzia/hoh/someone else to further grow/pump. This just basically hands it over and screws the rest of the t5 that arent in the BB/AMA/EJ club.

bravo morons.

Taking those acres out of the competition one way or another is the only way to deny PewPew's lameass move, yes it might adversely affect the rest of the kingsoms in top 5 or so but maybe they'll learn to not let PewPew ever get large enough that they can farm out in a sizeable enough way that it significantly affects to race. Had the acres not been taken out of the race one way or another then PewPew's gambit would have succeeded altho I guess they would have been pretty pissed if the one's who had ended up farming those acres had been AMA.

[Jono]

People should really not delude themselves though on one point: If we had fought, it would have been because we felt there was something to gain by doing so. Ultimately we would have farmed a huge chunk of acres to either AMA or BB, so in the end nobody is "screwed" by our choice to take the chart shaping out of play. Nobody was going to overcome whichever of those two kds finally ran us out of gas and then took us for 30k+ acres plus warwin bonus.

Well then my friend you are the deluded one... because if what you say is true then you did not need to agree to any thing with any one because the whole PewPew situation would not have an effect. As I said before its not the land that would have impacted the race as much as its the fact that AMA/whoever would have had to tie up TIME in getting it from you. Instead you block yourself, AMA notices HoH a week earlier (gee what could they have done with another week...) and are free and clear to take it home. By trying not to impact the charts YOU actually just shaped them. Congrats you are now part of their alliance.

Epic Stupidity.

[Lurking Ghost]

Taking those acres out of the competition one way or another is the only way to deny PewPew's lameass move, yes it might adversely affect the rest of the kingsoms in top 5 or so but maybe they'll learn to not let PewPew ever get large enough that they can farm out in a sizeable enough way that it significantly affects to race. Had the acres not been taken out of the race one way or another then PewPew's gambit would have succeeded altho I guess they would have been pretty pissed if the one's who had ended up farming those acres had been AMA.

I think the goals were achieved. The top was forced to stick to their word, and so is Rage. I don't see the lame move here, as we clearly pointed out the issues with the top and the constant CFs, while bullying all other kingdoms. Sadly we had to make it so transparent by not leting Rage fight the brutal fight that we might have put up.

What you should be advocating is that the game changes into more competitivness where CFs are less rewarding. As it is today it's all about who gets the most CF and make them expire by a reason or just prefectly in time to farm another kingdom.
I fail to see the diffrence of being farmed by a kd that you have no chances against, or to farm out in such a way that your opponents have to think twice before acting behind your back or tying to outplay you by using weaker kds.

Today the game is demoralizing to any kd that competes it's way to the top, which baisicly means that no "new" and active or skillfull kds can match up later in the set, because they are so behind in both acres and sience.
This makes building new kingdoms and attracting new players hard because the succes takes so long time to achieve sucess.

You may dislike us, I have nothing against that, but at least try to think outside of the box, and look at the bigger picture of all the play, rather than only focusing on who is to blaim and who is not.

[Lead Pipe]

Everytime I think about coming back to Utopia I read theses forums and see that the politics, ****playing, and poor game mechanics which allow it to happen seem to get worse and worse.

The thread title is A Resolution: On Ethics and Top Play. But the only thing I see is Rage backing down from threats of dealbreaks and GB. Rage did nothing wrong on their part, but are the ones being punished! How is that ethical?

A Resolution should be a public statement which shows how the top will deal with farming. Signed by Rage, the ABE alliance, and the other whoring kingdoms. And it should've been done at the start of the age, because Pewpew farming out was not a suprise to anyone. Otherwise, it becomes a case-by-case situation and the more powerful alliance will simply dictate the terms as it benefits them.

Past ages Rage gets ****played and does nothing. This age Rage is the beneficiary of ****play but has to give up the age.

Drixx, my guess is most of your kdmates would rather finish in 8th place this age fighting through a dealbreak & gangbang than finish in 4th place by sitting on their butts the rest of the age. What happens if next age you are #1 kd and the #5 kd farms out to the #2 kd? If you take yourself out of this age, you should be getting some assurances from ABE that it will not be allowed it to happen. Not in private either a PUBLIC decree. Otherwise it just seems like you got outplayed in the diplomacy arena.