CR vs AMA

[Palem]

....aaaand that's why this isn't going to get resolved and no one likes your Fair Play Alliance

[Elit]

No, ama dealbreaking is what cause us this painfull event. Nothing else

Your **** play on AMA caused it.

[Lupine]

If proper diplomacy were established earlier none of this **** would happen. well if you have not threatened ama about the 2v1 situation, they might not act poorly and decided to get as low as this. Ama felt threatened and cornered in this one, so they react. You can't possibly deny you have 0 responsibilty in ama deal breaking. Karma bites you know

[Lupine]

Lupine, unlike what nesta is trying to claim, we arent in this to get ama on 25 greens. And if there comes a real CF offer, then we will surely consider it.

I didnt go into this fight to gain. I went into this fight to stop ama from gaining from it. And unlike for Nesta, just elits word that he wont go for a crown isnt good enough for me. There is no reason to keep the 2nd prov in the game in place if he wont go for a crown. Basicly, since he claims he just wants to war and go for honor ww's, the banks at their current size will actualy hurt them. So why keep them?

The banks will prefend him from getting wars outside of the very top, and he claims he wants to CF that intire top till eoa. And on top of that, we just have to take his word?
So, his actions contradict his word. And we allready know he broke his word once this age to get what he wanted.
Yet we are the stupid ones for not making the deal he wants with him? lol

His action may have contradict to his words. But you have no right to tell them what strategy they should play and whether or not they should keep the cow acres if they were going for ww or honor. Yes you can prove them wrong, but you can't just take them as you like. They were punished with 5 pk and payback for the land they cost on CR. So now you think the cow acres are unnecessary for their future agenda, might as well you claim them rightfully?

[Elit]

Thanks for the answer to my question. Who did what and why has been discussed enough, it's not in my interested. I'm curious though, was it only a standard cf? Elits suggests in his first post #27 that "deal we made with zauper last age don't let you interfere", can someone explain what that is about exactly?

If you get notice from other top 10 kd you cant get notice from second kd for example.

[TheOne]

For those that said Pyros agreed to raze those acres gained:, you are trying to spin a story that we agreed to raze before joining the conflict. these are the terms that all kingdoms that joined the alliance had to agree

1) Havoc wars AMA. Only Pyro/Havoc are free to use all attacks. (As agreed by Parth/topsy). Others MUST Raze or bounce/massacre all hits into the war.
2) Havoc razes down to equal size of Pyro during eowcf after they have taken land bonus (Regardless on amount of acres gained in the war)
3) Pyro / Havoc are free to hit each other 96 hours after eowcf with AMA/Havoc has passed. This gives both kds 8 days preparation time which will start from the eow msg. Havoc must inform Pyro as soon as the war has ended. The 8 days start when AMA has WD from the war.
4) Any kingdom helping out in the gb is entitled to an EOACF with havoc or a 96 hour notice CF with Havoc. The kingdoms helping get to choose which deal they would prefer. The notice if 96 hours is chosen can't be given in war/eowcf or BEFORE Havoc vs pyro war takes place.

1)+2) clearly shows that we dont need to raze any acres. In fact, like I mentioned earlier, we could have easily nett 30+k acres (instead of ~13k) if we just trad all the way. And we only did 4 cow hits (deep into war protection, for a total of ~2.9k acres i think. or less).. and the reason why AMA still has those banks is because CR instructed us to focus on razing killing provs+hitting elves.

If you want to say that we agreed to raze acres, you should at least STATE that it was mentioned at around 8-9hrs before we officially pulled out, and that is not a certainty given how things have panned out during the next 8-9hrs and external advice we have received. And that was mentioned at the point in time and then we decided to continue razing for another 8-9hrs before we pulled out.

At least get your timings right + facts right before stating things, because as far as I can see, people are painting that Pyros agreed to raze acres at the start

-cJ

[18:50] <@cJ> nah ama cant kill our cows
[18:50] <@cJ> we got too much backing
[18:50] <@Cerberus_v666> yeah
[18:50] <@cJ> kees and zen is pumped
[18:50] <@cJ> so is nesta
[18:50] <@Cerberus_v666> our cows are vulnerable. :P
[18:50] <@Procy|laptop> nesta nub pumped last time I looked at his cb!
[18:51] <@Procy|laptop> at any rate
[18:51] <@Procy|laptop> if they were to drop war
[18:51] <@Procy|laptop> and declare rage
[18:51] <@Procy|laptop> that would be the only way to get any "free"ish cow acres
[18:51] <@cJ> rage cows are the 1 in trouble
[18:51] <@Procy|laptop> that's where I was going with that
[18:51] <@cJ> kees was wanting to tm their cows like 12hrs ago lol
[18:51] <@cJ> zen too


People will be able to see above as well how totally uncooperative Elit was being and how much pyro were wetting their pants at the prospect of gaining more cow acres.

[/QUOTE]

Lol, I just saw this. Had to edit it into my post. Thanks for publicly saying that we are HONOURABLE enough to not TM anymore acres despite having the capability to do so :) Because we followed what the group (mainly CR leading the gb strategy) wanted. Of course my guys are going to ask to do TMs, but did they? Nope, we stopped them.

lol.

[Lupine]

Pyro and CR war still going on? or cancelled? Just move on people! why all the spotlight on Elit while another good fight is around the corner!!

[MrCurious]

I respect Pyro's decission to step out of the GB due to Ama/pb having suffered enough, but I can't respect leaving your buddies hanging like that. You enter a GB with x number of KDs, so you fight with them until the situation has been resolved. You can't leave the others with open relations vs ama, well knowing they will get declared on. You gained 13-14k off the backs of Ama, leave your GB party prematurely, keep and pump into your new GB acres. Thats not fair to anyone, and I doubt you will get on amas good side cuz you already gbed them + gained a ****ton of their acres.

[Lupine]

I say all Fairplay Alliance members just accept the damn CF they desired, stop PK. and let Elit troll his age. He can do whatever he wants, ww or honor as long as he don't mess with t10 anymore this age. The consequence of you decline a cf caused ama to declare rbl. See where the old path got into?

if CR wants a shot at the crown, best they consider the CF and stop doing meaningless razes out to ghettos helping Ama. Prepare themselves for upcoming war with Pyro, and stop whinning having insufficient time while Pyro went fort and pump yadda yaadda blah blah.. you have your eowcf and a proper CF from Elit.

[Palem]

I respect Pyro's decission to step out of the GB due to Ama/pb having suffered enough, but I can't respect leaving your buddies hanging like that.

They aren't their buddies.

[Minty]

It's naive to think AMA will submit to anyone. For breaking a CF deal in the manner they did, AMA had a coming punishment. However, what is going on now will achieve nothing but to fuel AMAs motivation to keep this fight going into next age. That is evident for anyone with the slightest sense of human relations. The idea of a fair play alliance falls on itself when it's leaders are people like Anri who so blatantly are out for vengeance on someone that has bullied and ridiculed them for ages. I see members of this fair play alliance being/acting flabbergasted why there's people outside of AMA supporting them. Let me tell you I do not condone AMAs dealbreak, but a biased judge has no moral high ground and cannot serve punishment for "unfair play", and the level of hypocrasy amongst these people are a detriment to your cause. To the people that's actually trying to resolve this situation by diplomacy. You cannot fault Elit for being uncooperative when you are doing diplomacy with a knife to his throat.

Solving this situation can only be done by action. Not action as in authorative violence but actions of good faith. As such, all attacks must cease now. Otherwise we will have an alliance war next age, no doubt about that.

[Nightmare_]

I respect Pyro's decission to step out of the GB due to Ama/pb having suffered enough, but I can't respect leaving your buddies hanging like that. You enter a GB with x number of KDs, so you fight with them until the situation has been resolved. You can't leave the others with open relations vs ama, well knowing they will get declared on. You gained 13-14k off the backs of Ama, leave your GB party prematurely, keep and pump into your new GB acres. Thats not fair to anyone, and I doubt you will get on amas good side cuz you already gbed them + gained a ****ton of their acres.

The primary problem that I've seen is that we have two parties who aren't really willing to budge due to past grudges and vendettas. It's hard to make sure everyone is accounted for when no one wants to make any reasonable compromises. Pyros was hard-pressed to make any real decision that would make everyone happy, and in the end became embroiled in the bitterness of the past. Of course, it could then be asked, "Why join GB to begin with?" which is certainly a valid question and is why I recommended against participating in the gb to begin with - it would inevitably lead to Pyros being sucked into situations they had no business sticking their noses in.

There's really no going back now, though, and the situation itself as it stands could be looked at from multiple perspectives:
1. Both Pyros and Havoc should keep acres because it was what was originally agreed to when gb started.
2. Havoc deserves the acres it gained because they were dealbroke and are back where they started, and Pyros should raze down to equalize.
3. Neither Pyros nor Havoc should have gained acres from this (because Havoc is only up acres after being dealbroke due to gb) and both should raze down

All three are valid in some respects, and it's really up to the parties involved to decide where this will go.

[Elit]

"Why join GB to begin with?" which is certainly a valid question and is why I recommended against participating in the gb to begin with - it would inevitably lead to Pyros being sucked into situations they had no business sticking their noses in.

I see Pyro have at lest one smart person.
CJ/Nesta made really big mistake take part from GB. If GB was good solution on problems why last age AMA/BB/EJ accepted deal what no one from us wanted to accept?
GB only bring problems in long term.

[Nick_mi]

Your **** play on AMA caused it.

No. It's not. It was caused by you dealbreaking. That's like saying someone who got killed by a drunk driver was the cars fault.

[American Badass]

Thanks for the answer to my question. Who did what and why has been discussed enough, it's not in my interested. I'm curious though, was it only a standard cf? Elits suggests in his first post #27 that "deal we made with zauper last age don't let you interfere", can someone explain what that is about exactly?

No it was a proper CF negotiation to expire on x with a notice of x hours. AMA broke it and waved before x date without any x notice.

I respect Pyro's decission to step out of the GB due to Ama/pb having suffered enough, but I can't respect leaving your buddies hanging like that. You enter a GB with x number of KDs, so you fight with them until the situation has been resolved. You can't leave the others with open relations vs ama, well knowing they will get declared on. You gained 13-14k off the backs of Ama, leave your GB party prematurely, keep and pump into your new GB acres. Thats not fair to anyone, and I doubt you will get on amas good side cuz you already gbed them + gained a ****ton of their acres.

Never thought I'd say this to a post you made but +1.

I say all Fairplay Alliance members just accept the damn CF they desired, stop PK. and let Elit troll his age. He can do whatever he wants, ww or honor as long as he don't mess with t10 anymore this age. The consequence of you decline a cf caused ama to declare rbl. See where the old path got into?

if CR wants a shot at the crown, best they consider the CF and stop doing meaningless razes out to ghettos helping Ama. Prepare themselves for upcoming war with Pyro, and stop whinning having insufficient time while Pyro went fort and pump yadda yaadda blah blah.. you have your eowcf and a proper CF from Elit.

We don't trust elit's word so we need evidence of him forfeiting. We told him to either make a public thread stating he would not go for crown (os if he did we could re-gb) or for him to raze acres off those banks so he couldn't.

He did neither.

They aren't their buddies.

Allies/Buddies. Same thing.

It's naive to think AMA will submit to anyone. For breaking a CF deal in the manner they did, AMA had a coming punishment. However, what is going on now will achieve nothing but to fuel AMAs motivation to keep this fight going into next age. That is evident for anyone with the slightest sense of human relations. The idea of a fair play alliance falls on itself when it's leaders are people like Anri who so blatantly are out for vengeance on someone that has bullied and ridiculed them for ages. I see members of this fair play alliance being/acting flabbergasted why there's people outside of AMA supporting them. Let me tell you I do not condone AMAs dealbreak, but a biased judge has no moral high ground and cannot serve punishment for "unfair play", and the level of hypocrasy amongst these people are a detriment to your cause. To the people that's actually trying to resolve this situation by diplomacy. You cannot fault Elit for being uncooperative when you are doing diplomacy with a knife to his throat.

Solving this situation can only be done by action. Not action as in authorative violence but actions of good faith. As such, all attacks must cease now. Otherwise we will have an alliance war next age, no doubt about that.

Why we need acres of banks razed.

The primary problem that I've seen is that we have two parties who aren't really willing to budge due to past grudges and vendettas. It's hard to make sure everyone is accounted for when no one wants to make any reasonable compromises. Pyros was hard-pressed to make any real decision that would make everyone happy, and in the end became embroiled in the bitterness of the past. Of course, it could then be asked, "Why join GB to begin with?" which is certainly a valid question and is why I recommended against participating in the gb to begin with - it would inevitably lead to Pyros being sucked into situations they had no business sticking their noses in.

There's really no going back now, though, and the situation itself as it stands could be looked at from multiple perspectives:
1. Both Pyros and Havoc should keep acres because it was what was originally agreed to when gb started.
2. Havoc deserves the acres it gained because they were dealbroke and are back where they started, and Pyros should raze down to equalize.
3. Neither Pyros nor Havoc should have gained acres from this (because Havoc is only up acres after being dealbroke due to gb) and both should raze down

All three are valid in some respects, and it's really up to the parties involved to decide where this will go.

Pyro only helped when they were allowed to TM into the war and gain acres. When they were told they were to Raze AMA's banks they swiftly backed out the GB.