AMA & BB ruin the game

[SnirpsneR]

Like I said, you surely wanted a farmwar. You didnt want a war with us when you had to give us time to train up though which is understandable ofcourse. We were willing to war. We were not willing to farm out which is exactly what would have happened if we had warred you right out of our eowcf. And we all know that.

So just like BB, AMA was only interrested in a complete farmwar. A war in which you had cow, science, wpa, gcstock and total military advantage but with us trained up in full warbuilds wasnt something you wanted.

Nothing wrong with it imo. Don't think you would give us time if situation was reversed :P

[goodz]

Nothing wrong with it imo. Don't think you would give us time if situation was reversed :P

they didn't say anything was wrong with it.

They said you had no interest in warring them with some prep time. You said they have no interest in warring you right oow from much smaller size unpumped. Can't you both agree that you wouldn't want to war from a situation where the only possible outcome is being farmed?

this is a silly argument.

Anyway back on topic. Beastblood wins age. Proteus curse prevents ama from having a chance. Game is not ruined by the outcome.

[Elldallan]

The reality is that not warring is beneficial up until the point where you need to war to shift acres around, because you can always wave the kds as they come out of wars. Being able to use your pool and prep for longer is a substantial advantage.

Yes that was sort of the point I was trying to make.

Just to correct you on something. It was AMA who didnt want to war CR. Not the other way around. And there was never any notice between AMA and CR. We actualy asked AMA to war us. AMA's goal is acres and not wars, and a CF deal or comming for us when we couldnt war them were both better scenario's to get acres then a war with us would be.

BB earlier didnt want to war us either. They came for us when we didnt have any chance to war them rather then give us time to train up to war them.

In both cases CR wouldnt have hesitated to war either of them if we had been given time to train up. That would mean warring them with a cow, science, wpa, size, gc stock disadvantage. In both cases, both KD's didnt want war (besides perhaps a complete farmwar we would never give them), but they wanted acres. Which given their position and presumed goals is a fair choice.

From what I've gathered from the forum thread they didn't want to let you prepare for war, I'm sure they wouldn't have minded waving you until you pressed the button or maxed the meter. It's funny how revenge and grudges works.
It's after all the exact same way as you treated them last age except that you told them that you'd 2v1 them and all that other crap. From that tediously long thread last age you were completely unwilling to offer them any deal that would let them war Pyro and prepare for you until after that "random" Remote stuff completely ruined any chance they had of prepping and warring Pyro(and then they dealbroke you which was anything but fair. But it seems that they thought that The Remote was one of your ex players, sent by you which sorta makes that reaction understandable).
So I figure that they're not gonna play nice with you again.

[noobium]

Define a lot?! A pretty basic strategy works for every race and doesn't quite require an extreme time schedule.
The only provinces that really required extra time and planning during protection used to be those that would be exploring. You'd want them to optimize their provinces because all other exploring provinces would try and optimize. And as we live in a competitive environment, nobody wants to loose and thus do their best!

Old oop basically meant that whoever was online for more ticks wound up with a better province, everyone with a shred of competence would explore 200-300 acres minimum (save a few exceptions), armies were almost always pure elite, and the early game was predictable. Kingdoms that could put up cows could do so essentially unopposed, so there was from the start a seperation between growth kingdoms and warring kingdoms. Now kingdoms have a lot more choices, because kingdoms have to establish their growth plans post-protection rather than pre-oop, and now there is actually a choice as to what to build and train pre-oop. Before, the only viable buildings were banks arms guilds, and the only viable oop acreage was long ago determined with slight adjustments due to race changes and rare mechanics changes. It's also not reliant on being particularly active in protection, so the game is actually played against people instead of through a simulation; sure activity wasn't always a great advantage, but it was an edge nonetheless and the strategy for oop was so dull.

I agree, it is my own choice not to compete against the top kingdoms. I was responding to noobium who was stating that he thought it was silly to want to not compete. However, increasingly kingdoms are making that precise choice.

The point I was trying to make is that avoiding growth early is fairly silly, because sooner or later kingdoms will have to grow if they are proactive in waving in warring, and early hostiles will likely involve trads rather than massacre. The point is not to try and compete with the kingdoms at the very top of the chart (unless you want to), but to aim for moderate growth instead of no growth. The silly thing is that my ghetto was trying hard not to grow their provinces too big, and had other kingdoms been rational actors the ghetto would be in 20s-30s rank instead of 9th nw or so. Even with the things my old ghetto botched, the advantage from setting up earlier rather than later was so useful.

[flogger]

I got bored at work and decided to build my ghetto into a real kingdom and ally with AMA, BB and the pyro kids.... talk about REALLY ruining the game.

[Band of Horses]

I got bored at work and decided to build my ghetto into a real kingdom and ally with AMA, BB and the pyro kids.... talk about REALLY ruining the game.

I here by coin this new alliance as BFAP, I would also accept FAPB either way has FAP in it.

[Elit]

Just to correct you on something. It was AMA who didnt want to war CR. Not the other way around. And there was never any notice between AMA and CR. We actualy asked AMA to war us. AMA's goal is acres and not wars, and a CF deal or comming for us when we couldnt war them were both better scenario's to get acres then a war with us would be.

Just to correct you, i wanted to give you time and war. This kinda guaranteed us age win. Problem is last age you didn't gave us time when we asked you 2 weeks before our CF expire and you go total lame mod. So its dont make sense after all ****s you did last age if we give you time this.

Next time wen you are in better position you can offer us 2 weeks for prepare and war you. We wont land drop after it how did fake RBL (advice from you).

[tetley]

Best way to make a game good is for it to have a thriving and welcoming community.
Everyone be nicer!

[noobium]

Best way to make a game good is for it to have a thriving and welcoming community.
Everyone be nicer!

It's way too late for that.

[Elit]

Best way to make a game good is for it to have a thriving and welcoming community.
Everyone be nicer!

This game is like mirror on real life. Do you see nice ppl all around you? :)

[Maximouse]

Elit, either you wanted to war us or you didnt. We offered to war you, you declined. Dont tell me you declined because you wanted to war us. You declined because you wanted something else. Which we all understand. Just dont bs about it

[Sheister]

The point I was trying to make is that avoiding growth early is fairly silly, because sooner or later kingdoms will have to grow if they are proactive in waving in warring, and early hostiles will likely involve trads rather than massacre. The point is not to try and compete with the kingdoms at the very top of the chart (unless you want to), but to aim for moderate growth instead of no growth. The silly thing is that my ghetto was trying hard not to grow their provinces too big, and had other kingdoms been rational actors the ghetto would be in 20s-30s rank instead of 9th nw or so. Even with the things my old ghetto botched, the advantage from setting up earlier rather than later was so useful.

The mistake they make is not arranging for land drops to a kingdom that wishes to engage in structured acres collections. If you can do that, then you can war all you want to, take the eowcf period to pump on those acres, then send your armies out and let the structured acres collection agreement drop you back down again. Everyone is happy. The structured acres collection kingdom gets their acres, which is all they want, you get to stay small and war, and everyone is happy.

[noobium]

I'll make it clearer - if 800 acres is a relatively big province two weeks into the age, a lot of people have to be playing silly. By that point most of the big growth kingdoms have already broken range, and there was no shortage of war range targets - just a shortage of skill to actually win those wars, and that would be the same no matter what acre size we were at.

The only problem with finding wars is that kingdoms are too busy trying to be smaller than everyone else in order to bait war, or because they're afraid of growth kingdoms, and if every kingdom chooses to do that, than wars are automatically decided by pure activity and the strategy to use is (or should be) obvious. the only kingdoms that benefit from this are the small elite warring kingdoms who auto-win those conflicts 100% of the time, so obviously they're all for pushing people into doing that and bullying anyone who would prefer that people play with something resembling competence. It's those kingdoms more than the top growth kingdoms that ruin the game, because most ghettos wind up having few if any interactions with the top, and top is more interested in whoring to win than in protracted struggles with random ghettos. The warring tier, or at least some of the established kingdoms in it, are far worse and usually the wall a ghetto runs into before they ragequit.

[Sheister]

Well, I won't pretend to speak for others that will seek to be smaller or their motivations noobium but I can say that being in the top 10, it is freaking difficult to get a war because it has to be a negotiation. It used to be the same in the 10-20 and long ago in the 20-50. That should pretty much tell you a lot about who is left. Growing into the top 10 makes you the only food choice of the three kingdoms that seek to compete for a crown after week 4, growing into the top 20 you are food for at least the first 4 weeks. About the only way not to have to deal with the top at all is to stay out of the top 50-75. Now, that is not having a random thrown into you or anything (this is after week 4 or so and assumes you have no idiots that outgrew the rest of your kingdom by a large margin (typically faeries with no offense as that is the preferred food of larger kingdoms).

Perhaps the more stable tactic is just to make arrangements to give the top any surplus acres you have after each of your eowcf's. It keeps you in the place where you can find wars and gets rid of your excess ares on a schedule you can work with more easily. That is, waiting for randoms into your KD is a long slow process. That is because, absent communications, the top are all gutless when it comes to giving ops (its not really fear, to be fair, they just don't want any ops that would distract them from growth, remember the goal is structured acres acquisitions). So you will not get more than 2-6 hits in a 24 hr period unless you make arrangements to have it done more efficiently. So, to me, the best way to manage all of this is to not grow oop, find some wars, then from there just have trims done on you by people who, for whatever dumb reason, want to deal with all the drama and garbage of the top 3. More power to them and may they come to find some enjoyment from dealing with all of those personalities.

[John Snowstorm]

Elit, either you wanted to war us or you didnt. We offered to war you, you declined. Dont tell me you declined because you wanted to war us. You declined because you wanted something else. Which we all understand. Just dont bs about it

If you wanted to war us all you had to do was wait for the button we were going to deliver to you when you got out of war. Instead you came and offered 20% of your acres in exchange for a CF.

You wanted free prep time.

No more free CFs for Havoc.