AMA Mean Bullies vs. Sad Jerks Age 62 - ROUND TWO??!!

[Proteus]

jerks make dumb decision.

Have 2 choices:
1) use razes so they gain very little
2) negotiate cf

they opted for farm out, which is only thing that can happen in a hostile where you're in worst position. Terrible game mechanics and large part of reason no desire to whore. We did this because snakes managed to use LL and a mix of marches and razes to hold sanctuary in a conflict for a 2 weeks with ~0 growth... If anything this is worst. Gives way to much power ot KD with advantage.

the game mechanics where you could endlessly retal war someone without going to war were far worse or when you could run from fight using fake war

[KuhaN]

[AquaSeaFoam]

In response to Cello's post above, for what it's worth, on my "rules" I never counted race or island charts, that was just Syntico adding some satiric effect. I counted kingdom land, nw, and honor as kingdom crowns and province nw, land, and honor as province crowns. I think it's pretty basic logic and knowledge that a triple crown is winning the land, nw, and honor charts and is 1+1+1, not 0.5+0.5+1 + bonus 1.

[Proteus]

I really don't understand the .5 thing, there are plenty of situations where you can't "easily" win land/NW crown as palem claims (korp actually put it very eloquently but the tl;dr version is palem doesn't really know what he is talking about but talks like he does). If you have an EOA fight for #1 with the #1 and #2 kds and the #3 kd is pumping for the last 3 weeks, there is not enough time for the winner of the two kds fighting to win kd land considering gc stocks would be spent on war while the kd pumping for 3 weeks has many options to deep draft, etc.

[Band of Horses]

I actually have the original Syntico's crown list, aka "The Crown Winners List". An excerpt from the thread:

The rules:


And the #3, Elit (behind Phiwha/Mango and MacLean):


As you can see Syntico was in favour of pure crowns, rather than 1/2 crowns or absalometric crowns. So you are, in fact, wrong, BoH ;)

I reread the Realest thread and thus my attack on myself. I am fair in my attacks thus attacking myself for being wrong.

Where those two differed in that thread and what threw me off was the honor crowns. Realest was saying they were 1/2 but Syntico said full. (I thought Syntico had corrected Realest in saying he gave into the full land OR nw, boy was I foolish)

[tetley]

This thread delivered...


anyways regarding the back-and-forth and somewhat what Proteus was asking, I don't think anyone is entitled to a CF after war. But a spoon of honey attracts more flies than a jug of vinegar. Why do you think it is that BB is generally well-liked (other than by Havoc) and AMA isn't?

Because flogger and protector treat people relatively nicely...

There's no objectively wrong or right way to play, and maybe AMA doesn't care about crowns anymore so they just wanna have some fun and pummel us a bit. That's fine, like I said I don't hold it against them personally. But there's no question that prot was nicer to me than elit/cello were this age, and last age, and there's equally no question of who I'd be more inclined to do a favor for in the future.

And I think this is what Palem keeps trying to say, and it's something in the core fundamental mentality of AMA that they just differ in opinion regarding: you're more likely to win, for a whole number of reasons, if you try to minimize the number of enemies you make. And AMA either doesn't care or doesn't understand.


Also to respond to an earlier thread: Kuhan don't worry even if BB forces b2b with us next age I'll still be bros with you :D

[Band of Horses]

This thread delivered...


anyways regarding the back-and-forth and somewhat what Proteus was asking, I don't think anyone is entitled to a CF after war. But a spoon of honey attracts more flies than a jug of vinegar. Why do you think it is that BB is generally well-liked (other than by Havoc) and AMA isn't?

Because flogger and protector treat people relatively nicely...

There's no objectively wrong or right way to play, and maybe AMA doesn't care about crowns anymore so they just wanna have some fun and pummel us a bit. That's fine, like I said I don't hold it against them personally. But there's no question that prot was nicer to me than elit/cello were this age, and last age, and there's equally no question of who I'd be more inclined to do a favor for in the future.

And I think this is what Palem keeps trying to say, and it's something in the core fundamental mentality of AMA that they just differ in opinion regarding: you're more likely to win, for a whole number of reasons, if you try to minimize the number of enemies you make. And AMA either doesn't care or doesn't understand.


Also to respond to an earlier thread: Kuhan don't worry even if BB forces b2b with us next age I'll still be bros with you :D

I think it all depends on what kd you are. I'm willing to bet Pyro is fond of AMA, AMA has been kind to my ghettos in the past, they extend cf's to try to help out their victims as well. So AMA has bad blood with Pew2 and Jerks and some ghettos. BB has bad blood with CR. Pretty even if you ask me.

AMA has done a fine job of disbanding their 'haters' and while the kingdoms are gone the players will still hold resentment but this is not the reason for them not crowning. In fact I'd argue their niceness in extending CFs and usually giving CFs after wars is what costs them crowns.

[Palem]

1) #1 NW is a crown, but it's not "winning the age". The triple crown is winning the land, nw, and honor charts and represents winning all three crowns. Winning any one of these charts is a crown, but land is the most important chart.

Winning the age is the only achievement (crown) that's even remotely worth using your breath on anymore. imo, winning the age is land+nw. That means you've outplayed the rest of the competition sufficiently enough to secure the two spots. Not an impossible task, at all, and if there' just a big cluster**** at the top where NW and Land is split, then no one outplayed the rest of the competition. Good on them for finishing #1, but you didn't win.

The fact that you guys are using a system which is defined in terms of trolling abs and regarding it as the holy bible of utopian achievements is god damn funny.

I really don't understand the .5 thing, there are plenty of situations where you can't "easily" win land/NW crown as palem claims (korp actually put it very eloquently but the tl;dr version is palem doesn't really know what he is talking about but talks like he does). If you have an EOA fight for #1 with the #1 and #2 kds and the #3 kd is pumping for the last 3 weeks, there is not enough time for the winner of the two kds fighting to win kd land considering gc stocks would be spent on war while the kd pumping for 3 weeks has many options to deep draft, etc.

I never said winning the land+crown is easy. I said it's the only achievement worth respecting.

And I think this is what Palem keeps trying to say, and it's something in the core fundamental mentality of AMA that they just differ in opinion regarding: you're more likely to win, for a whole number of reasons, if you try to minimize the number of enemies you make. And AMA either doesn't care or doesn't understand.

Nice to see someone gets it.

I think it all depends on what kd you are. I'm willing to bet Pyro is fond of AMA, AMA has been kind to my ghettos in the past, they extend cf's to try to help out their victims as well. So AMA has bad blood with Pew2 and Jerks and some ghettos. BB has bad blood with CR. Pretty even if you ask me.

AMA has done a fine job of disbanding their 'haters' and while the kingdoms are gone the players will still hold resentment but this is not the reason for them not crowning. In fact I'd argue their niceness in extending CFs and usually giving CFs after wars is what costs them crowns.

AMA is very nice ...until you do something Elit disagrees with. Then they'll find every excuse they can to badger you and make you hate them.

[Band of Horses]

AMA is very nice ...until you do something Elit disagrees with. Then they'll find every excuse they can to badger you and make you hate them.

Play with them (their way) or play against them. Their philosophy reminds me of USA, help those that want to play in your sandbox but as soon as someone kicks dirt into your eyes or steals your toy you turn them into glass.

I don't think it is wrong, and many in the past have made amends with AMA just don't expect it in the next age unless you are over the top in reconciling.

[Palem]

[AquaSeaFoam]

I have never agreed with the "crown or bust" type of mentality for this game and crowns have never been a big deal to me. It's almost always my goal at the start of the age to be the strongest kingdom on the server, not necessarily to "crown". Perhaps this is one of the few areas I agree with Elit.

Maybe some see this as a loser mentality and admittedly I've probably lost more last minute crowns than anyone for all sorts of various reasons including not being aggressive enough. Still, even with all the lost crowns, I think I must be about equal with Elit in count.

[flogger]

I have never agreed with the "crown or bust" type of mentality for this game and crowns have never been a big deal to me. It's almost always my goal at the start of the age to be the strongest kingdom on the server, not necessarily to "crown". Perhaps this is one of the few areas I agree with Elit.

Maybe some see this as a loser mentality and admittedly I've probably lost more last minute crowns than anyone for all sorts of various reasons including not being aggressive enough. Still, even with all the lost crowns, I think I must be about equal with Elit in count.

Most people at the leadership level care more about winning wars or being more powerful than others than who wins in any given age. I care about a crown after its been awhile since I've had one, or if I'm playing with new players, etc.

[Elit]

Not sure why this topic is turned to crown contest talk. Its was started from tetley to complain and have pure education propose now. Rest KDs can learn and not make same mistake tetley did. So many good kds in past made deals for give land and get cf. Its best and fastest way for end it and move on. Only not enough experienced kds/leaders prefer to fight to dead and its end hurt them much more. Still every one have his right to play how like. Its include AMA too Palem! So less flame. Both Kds do what they think for good.

[AquaSeaFoam]

Elit,

Honestly, if the situations were reversed on you and a kingdom was bigger and better positioned than you, perhaps after beating you in a war or perhaps without a war, demanded a significant amount of free acres from you for a cf, how would you respond?

You're not exactly known for giving out free acres even when disadvantaged.

[Elit]

Elit,

Honestly, if the situations were reversed on you and a kingdom was bigger and better positioned than you, perhaps after beating you in a war or perhaps without a war, demanded a significant amount of free acres from you for a cf, how would you respond?

You're not exactly known for giving out free acres even when disadvantaged.

Im know waring from disadvantage and win all my wars past few ages. We loss this age for first time vs Pew Pew and its was expected when we declared. After Petrified offered me CF and move on we still declared them war= auto give 5k land+post war bonuses. Its why We got in return easy long cf. This worked for pew much better from simple cf and move on. = we did what is good for us and good for pew. No grudge no nonsenses!
In season i gave free wave sleepy when i was in bad relations with coss during this time. I have no problem give land for cf if its better.

Dont forget its was normal abs practice in age 20-30 for b2b kds they wared if kd max gains and WD. Quote from ex abs leader:" i cant understand people doing max gains and WD when they cant defend his land from us after war end. Sure we will come back for it."