FS vs ED: FS brings in out of hostile help?

[MyNameIsMatija]

Not sure how much of the above you'd already spoken to Parth about, I did try to be clear that I didn't know the exact timings of a lot of things (I was away most of the weekend as well), but it gives what I would consider a reasonable overview of the timeline to people not involved (also tried to remain unbiased).

I'm not trying to paint it as ED offering FS a 100% even fight, but rather to show that it wasn't just a case of ED being hell bent on killing FS at any costs. ED offered FS some time to war and prep, they could have taken it and lost (if they thought they would) then moved on, but they refused to war and then refused any CF offers, something they spent weeks complaining at ED for doing.

Them having a terrible setup isn't really an excuse for anything, they made their choices at the start of the age, it's like me picking a 25 T/M KD then crying foul when someone tries to make terms which doesn't include a long hostile.

I'd say their honour is relevant, what would they have lost if they wared ED and had to WD? Land and honour. What would they have lost if they had a 1, 2, 3 week hostile vs. ED? Land and honour, probably a lot of T/M power and maybe sci. What was one of the key points in EDs CF offers which were declined as being unreasonable? FS giving ED honour. The fairly reasonable conclusion is that FS didn't want to giveup any free honour to ED, yet are more than happy to harvest it in an AWAR where the other KD doesn't fight back.

The key point I'm trying to convey is that even after having provs raze killed and reset they were still #1 honour KD, gives an insight of how much they farmed from that war and it's not like they had to grind out (x) hard wars to get to #1 so ED were trying to rob them of some hard work. Maybe someone knows just how much they gained from the war, it seemed like ~10k acres (?) but I don't know the honour.

As for who in BB, that should probably be directed towards your own council to find out who authed it or towards your own allies who were making the claims about BB council.

How does having provs raze-killed decrease a KDs honor? If anything it increases it because the chained provs that generally end up on low honor get reset to 1800 honor. It's the science and other proper prov development that is lost (like wpa for example).
You like to say that FS didn't earn their honor, I beg to differ. FS was a part of a long awar that it plunged into without knowing the end-result, it put in weeks of planning, execution, activity etc. sacrificing time and energy that could have been spent pumping provs all the while under the threat of being completely out of the age if it's side lost (lets not kid ourselves what would happen to FS if Emeriti won).
You took advantage of all of this and are now sitting on 7.5k extra honor (I will not call it free because you spent time preparing to take it, although you probably didn't have to sacrifice nearly as much as FS did) so why can't you now be satisfied and just stop throwing the FS name in the dirt as much as you possibly can? FS leadership congratulated you on your move and moved on, maybe it's time you do so as well (or don't but then face the fact that I will not keep silent about your hypocrisy).

[Zauper]

How does having provs raze-killed decrease a KDs honor? If anything it increases it because the chained provs that generally end up on low honor get reset to 1800 honor. It's the science and other proper prov development that is lost (like wpa for example).
You like to say that FS didn't earn their honor, I beg to differ. FS was a part of a long awar that it plunged into without knowing the end-result, it put in weeks of planning, execution, activity etc. sacrificing time and energy that could have been spent pumping provs all the while under the threat of being completely out of the age if it's side lost (lets not kid ourselves what would happen to FS if Emeriti won).
You took advantage of all of this and are now sitting on 7.5k extra honor (I will not call it free because you spent time preparing to take it, although you probably didn't have to sacrifice nearly as much as FS did) so why can't you now be satisfied and just stop throwing the FS name in the dirt as much as you possibly can? FS leadership congratulated you on your move and moved on, maybe it's time you do so as well (or don't but then face the fact that I will not keep silent about your hypocrisy).

To be fair, Emeriti did offer on more than one occasion to have their side CF out with FS. So... FS would have walked away with their victory vs... (who did they war first?) and a CF with everyone else.

Maybe FS' leadership did move on, but it's clear that their players (such as you) have failed to. :)

[nickey]

So, any news about who told pyro in the feyrplay alliance leadership to double hostile ED and pressure us to cf FS?

[MyNameIsMatija]

To be fair, Emeriti did offer on more than one occasion to have their side CF out with FS. So... FS would have walked away with their victory vs... (who did they war first?) and a CF with everyone else.

Maybe FS' leadership did move on, but it's clear that their players (such as you) have failed to. :)

How did I fail to move on? I'm just replying to all this slander in the forum. As far as I'm concerned what happened in the awar and in the "hostile" with ED is ancient history but if people want to talk about it even after the CF was reached I'll take the liberty to comment on it. I just joined FS this age and might even leave FS after this age so I have no real invested emotions regarding what happened to FS in the past or what will happen to FS in the future. I do hope it's the future that's the focus from now on though.

[silverfox]

How does having provs raze-killed decrease a KDs honor? If anything it increases it because the chained provs that generally end up on low honor get reset to 1800 honor. It's the science and other proper prov development that is lost (like wpa for example).
You like to say that FS didn't earn their honor, I beg to differ. FS was a part of a long awar that it plunged into without knowing the end-result, it put in weeks of planning, execution, activity etc. sacrificing time and energy that could have been spent pumping provs all the while under the threat of being completely out of the age if it's side lost (lets not kid ourselves what would happen to FS if Emeriti won).
You took advantage of all of this and are now sitting on 7.5k extra honor (I will not call it free because you spent time preparing to take it, although you probably didn't have to sacrifice nearly as much as FS did) so why can't you now be satisfied and just stop throwing the FS name in the dirt as much as you possibly can? FS leadership congratulated you on your move and moved on, maybe it's time you do so as well (or don't but then face the fact that I will not keep silent about your hypocrisy).

If provs are hitting someone in war for land gains while being smashed down by OOW hits (assume razes), then it's not exactly like someone being chained in war and left with no honour (even still can farm it back, might be wrong but I'm sure Zauper (?) was a Prince on something like 400 acres in ED a few years ago just due to being able to use NW and fast attack times).

ED didn't really take advantage of anything to do with the AWAR, I'm pretty sure ED made it very clear that they wouldn't forget FS ****play last age so to try and portray ED as vulturing FS just because they were tied up with an AWAR which they chose to join (knowing last ages interactions) isn't really portraying the correct buildup.

Why keep slagging of FS? I'm not sure; it could be the whole events of last age and threats they made against us (along with accusations ED had KD(s) hit them last age), it might be the way FS leadership are hypocrites in how they think relations work in utopia? Perhaps it could be the fact that FS lied on the forums multiple times & have **** talked ED then claimed they had nothing to do with Pyro waving ED yet magically disappear without an explanation or appology once all the facts start coming to light? Or maybe it's players in FS who have still threatened ED in future ages?

FS name is dirt, maybe if you don't want it being brought up constantly then you should stop engaging in convos which allow it to be recycled.

As a side note, slander would be making false claims. FS leadership have been very vocal about trying to make FS look good and damage limitation/playing the victims up until Pyros wave, yet they're not so keen on defending FS's name anymore, maybe take the time to consider why not.

[Zauper]

How did I fail to move on? I'm just replying to all this slander in the forum. As far as I'm concerned what happened in the awar and in the "hostile" with ED is ancient history but if people want to talk about it even after the CF was reached I'll take the liberty to comment on it. I just joined FS this age and might even leave FS after this age so I have no real invested emotions regarding what happened to FS in the past or what will happen to FS in the future. I do hope it's the future that's the focus from now on though.

Constant posting (and trying to cast things as slander) is a sign that you haven't let it go. Sorry.

And yes silverfox, I gained about 14k honor over 3-4 days coming oop after getting razekilled.

So I suppose getting razekilled can be very very good for gaining honor if you know how to play it.

[MyNameIsMatija]

If provs are hitting someone in war for land gains while being smashed down by OOW hits (assume razes), then it's not exactly like someone being chained in war and left with no honour (even still can farm it back, might be wrong but I'm sure Zauper (?) was a Prince on something like 400 acres in ED a few years ago just due to being able to use NW and fast attack times).

ED didn't really take advantage of anything to do with the AWAR, I'm pretty sure ED made it very clear that they wouldn't forget FS ****play last age so to try and portray ED as vulturing FS just because they were tied up with an AWAR which they chose to join (knowing last ages interactions) isn't really portraying the correct buildup.

Why keep slagging of FS? I'm not sure; it could be the whole events of last age and threats they made against us (along with accusations ED had KD(s) hit them last age), it might be the way FS leadership are hypocrites in how they think relations work in utopia? Perhaps it could be the fact that FS lied on the forums multiple times & have **** talked ED then claimed they had nothing to do with Pyro waving ED yet magically disappear without an explanation or appology once all the facts start coming to light? Or maybe it's players in FS who have still threatened ED in future ages?

FS name is dirt, maybe if you don't want it being brought up constantly then you should stop engaging in convos which allow it to be recycled.

As a side note, slander would be making false claims. FS leadership have been very vocal about trying to make FS look good and damage limitation/playing the victims up until Pyros wave, yet they're not so keen on defending FS's name anymore, maybe take the time to consider why not.

It's not what happened in our war, provs got started on from lord or baron, chained by Outsiders to knight or peasant and then razed.

Zauper being an ex ED member (now an Emeriti member) shines a new light to all this "neutral mediating" he's been doing.

Emeriti showed yet again how smart they are, I'll give them that (don't think anyone ever questioned their prowess in this game or intelligence), and instead of fighting back in the war they would obviously lose, they just anon hit for land a few times, making the victim card play all the more convincing and the farm war claims all the more believeable. It is in no way FS's fault that Emeriti refused to fight back and just rolled over.

I like how you say you wanted to hurt FS because of a grudge but at the prospect of losing the honor you farmed from FS to Pyro you immediatelly backed out of this crusade against FS in-game and accepted the CF terms.
FS is not a threat to you anymore, or are you still so intimidated by FS that you still have the need to talk like this? Only one recycling this story is you, FS leadership told you time and agian they are over you and your claims.

I changed my mind and am done talking on this matter, you obviously show no remorse or self-critique so there's really no point in me trying to show the other side of the coin that you are so focused on (yet you repeatedly call out FS for showing no remorse).

I apologize if I misused the word "slander", english is not my mother tongue which it is for you if I were to go by your forum account location tag.

[MyNameIsMatija]

Constant posting (and trying to cast things as slander) is a sign that you haven't let it go. Sorry.

And yes silverfox, I gained about 14k honor over 3-4 days coming oop after getting razekilled.

So I suppose getting razekilled can be very very good for gaining honor if you know how to play it.

Believe what you want, I'm so over it you have no idea, I just had fun tussling with some people while the conflict was still active (as I tried to have fun during the awar as well). I try to play this game for fun, you should try it too, it's, well, fun. You do keep bringing the story up so why would I not respond, but as I said in my previous post I'm done talking on the matter, think I said most I had to say and now people can decide what they choose to believe, I can wish you good luck presenting Emeriti and ED as saints.

[Felonious]

It is in no way FS's fault that Emeriti refused to fight back and just rolled over.

Just rolled over? You might recall we were getting gangbanged by 6?...7?..kds. I lost count. We did what we could do and probably better than most could have done in that situation. But it was virtually impossible to beat you all. You also might recall what the whole gangbang was supposedly abt. So now that it's come out that a BB council member sent Pyro to double hostile ED, it would be fabo if flogger/prot could give us some answers on the matter. Protector was just reading this thread. But he didnt reply to the questions :(

[MyNameIsMatija]

Just rolled over? You might recall we were getting gangbanged by 6?...7?..kds. I lost count. We did what we could do and probably better than most could have done in that situation. But it was virtually impossible to beat you all. You also might recall what the whole gangbang was supposedly abt. So now that it's come out that a BB council member sent Pyro to double hostile ED, it would be fabo if flogger/prot could give us some answers on the matter. Protector was just reading this thread. But he didnt reply to the questions :(

Maybe he doesn't respond because he's "over it"? :D
Doing what you could? No dragon started, I got 0 ops attempts, did you even try and grab my intel?
Anyway I promised myself that this would be my last response on this kind of things so please don't tempt me again... stop asking questions and then saying I'm not over something if I answer them :D This is so confusing haha

[silverfox]

It's not what happened in our war, provs got started on from lord or baron, chained by Outsiders to knight or peasant and then razed.

Zauper being an ex ED member (now an Emeriti member) shines a new light to all this "neutral mediating" he's been doing.

Emeriti showed yet again how smart they are, I'll give them that (don't think anyone ever questioned their prowess in this game or intelligence), and instead of fighting back in the war they would obviously lose, they just anon hit for land a few times, making the victim card play all the more convincing and the farm war claims all the more believeable. It is in no way FS's fault that Emeriti refused to fight back and just rolled over.

I like how you say you wanted to hurt FS because of a grudge but at the prospect of losing the honor you farmed from FS to Pyro you immediatelly backed out of this crusade against FS in-game and accepted the CF terms.
FS is not a threat to you anymore, or are you still so intimidated by FS that you still have the need to talk like this? Only one recycling this story is you, FS leadership told you time and agian they are over you and your claims.

I changed my mind and am done talking on this matter, you obviously show no remorse or self-critique so there's really no point in me trying to show the other side of the coin that you are so focused on (yet you repeatedly call out FS for showing no remorse).

I apologize if I misused the word "slander", english is not my mother tongue which it is for you if I were to go by your forum account location tag.

The whole honour gained is very much a sideline to the overall story, the short version is that FS gained a lot of land and honour in their one sided war. Each individual will have an opinion on how valid those gains were and again it's very much a side line to the point that FS refused to CF for EDs requests, something they were very vocal about ED being in the wrong over last age.

I don't think Zauper has ever hid that he and ED are close, think everyone at the top knows it and he's posted he is in EDs priv chats himself on the forums so there's no secret to this. I will say that from what I've seen he has always remained unbiased, maybe that's not the case 100% of the time, but there's a reason people will deal with him as a 3rd party & he's well respected in utopia so I have no reason to think anything else. Like I said before the whole honour gains vs. Emeriti is a pretty small point, but one I thought worth making as FS could have easily taken the hit in a lost war vs. ED.

I'm not sure what you mean, I don't know the perfect timeline of when people started to discuss CFs and the like so I can't say how events perfectly line up, but I don't think I saw any comments on WA/IRC being about ED needing to CF all parties because we might lose honour. Parth was rather clear that we were hostile with FS even after Pyros wave, I don't think we even took intel on Pyro. Again, I don't know the discussions of CF ad verbatim as I wasn't part of them and haven't seen logs, but I'm not really sure what option ED would have had at that point? Pyro had put a full wave into ED with troops out and double/tripple tapped provs (some who had zero acres inc as they'd not hit for land) and FS had started to do OPs again, had made a land grab and ambushed hits making this a full double hostile, should ED had just kept hitting FS while Pyro farmed them down small enough and then FS declare under the excuse of "well ED was hostile and wasn't stopping so we had to do something"?

Trust me, intimidate is the last thing I think of when I consider FS. ED crushed them in 3 days for pretty much what it took them 2 weeks to do, I've seen FS lack of tactical knowledge first had on 2 ages in the form of their poor PK attempts and then their abysmal tornado waves on my prov, if you asked me to forget all of the interactions between our two KDs and give an honest opinion I'd say FS is tactically a very average KD and are more carried by their players activity. Also to think every player in FS has magically just erased their memories of the threats they made and have forgiven ED then it seems pretty naive, I can only speak for myself (as tbh I'm not asked anyone else) but expecting everyone in ED to just go "oh hey you ****played us 2 ages in a row, but it's cool we're all friends now" also comes across as a bit of a stretch.

I'm not sure what there should be any remorse for on our side? We abided by your KDs self made "rules" on hostiles and were double hostiled for it. I've not made a secret of my dislike for FS and I'm not really trying to play up EDs public image, this is a public forum and I'll engage in talking to people about things related to ED, I also don't try to hide that I'll try to be as brutal as possible to people who I perceive as being wrong or having wronged ED. Nothing over the last week has made me think I should respect FS more or let things go, I also don't expect an appology from FS and one wouldn't change my opinion in the slightest. One thing I will say, if I could change anything over the last 2 ages, I personally think ED should have pushed button last age amd just warred as I think we'd have still won while the conflict was in early stages.

[Sheister]

As someone who idles in the channel of the "alliance" (but contributes virtually nothing, so no idea why I was asked to idle there) I can say that for all the time since the matter with emeriti was settled the only activity in there is people logging in and off and someone occasionally asking if anyone was awake and paying attention. I can't say if people did not conspire in pm as to whatever this is, but at least in that channel there is nothing but system messages.

/me shrugs

[Felonious]

Maybe he doesn't respond because he's "over it"? :D
Doing what you could? No dragon started, I got 0 ops attempts, did you even try and grab my intel?
Anyway I promised myself that this would be my last response on this kind of things so please don't tempt me again... stop asking questions and then saying I'm not over something if I answer them :D This is so confusing haha

Lol, I didnt ask you anything in my last post. Nor have I ever said once that you're "not over" anything. I have asked you in the past if you could really be this daft though. And I have my answer. :)

[Felonious]

As someone who idles in the channel of the "alliance" (but contributes virtually nothing, so no idea why I was asked to idle there) I can say that for all the time since the matter with emeriti was settled the only activity in there is people logging in and off and someone occasionally asking if anyone was awake and paying attention. I can't say if people did not conspire in pm as to whatever this is, but at least in that channel there is nothing but system messages.

/me shrugs

It was a whatsapp convo. Though Nesta did confirm the person was on BB's council on IRC. I'm not sure how much you knew of all this. But you certainly knew you guys were waving into an active hostile. Considering that you were probably the most vocal against Emeriti before and during the gangbang, thats pretty hypocritical. But I've gotten used to seeing a lot of hypocrisy this age. Its sad...

[Sheister]

If by "you" you mean pyro generally? I guess its possible. If by "you," you mean me, then no I had no clue. All I did was pump. At wave time I heard a KD number (which meant nothing to me). I asked if I should do anything. They were like, hold on for a PF. I was like, can't really, I got a meeting anyway. I went AFK, popped back on and asked if there was anything to do, was told no, so I went back to work again. You now know the extent of my knowledge of this.

meh, whatsapp conversations.....

It is probably the main reason I have no clue. I have WA muted because these people set it off like a bell in a carnival game. 24/7 ping ping ping....

I can't be bothered with it. It was one thing when it was for emergencies and contacting me offline. Its something else when it is going all damn day.

To that point, at the end of the age, if there is a kingdom that DOES NOT use whatsapp...... I am interested.