FS vs ED: FS brings in out of hostile help?

[Parth]

As a somewhat biased person (having previously played in ED) but who doesn't really give a **** about much of anything these days. I find it rather convenient that in the "Pyro/BB/FS alliance" whatsapp group that everyone seemed to think that the terms of ED's request in order to CF FS was "unacceptable" (or something to that effect) and was asking too much. But at least as what I've seen shows, nobody seems to have considered that (from what I've read on the forums) FS made an equally ridiculous request of ED last age. (FS is at least to some extent the pot calling the kettle black)?

Notwithstanding that having played with Parth I know he can be stubborn as **** to deal with at times, if a kingdom decides that as part of their diplo they are going to be difficult they should expect to receive the same treatment back from their peers. From experience ED understands this and expects the same back in return when they choose to be difficult.

This means that when ED/FS are unreasonable in dealing with each other, they should each expect the other to be unreasonable in kind. What it doesn't mean is that when FS decides that they've been outplayed (in this instance, like ED may have been last age) they can run to their friends like a child, play it off as it ED is the bully, and act like a total hypocrite.

Kudos to BB for at least doing something to resolve this, and kudos to Parth for agreeing to act reasonably (which I'm sure for Parth was difficult).

But I'm sorry, Pyro and FS each look like children in the way this has all gone down. Nesta - if your "allies" get themselves into a crappy situation because of their own terrible diplomacy it looks pretty bad on you, running to their aid to help them act like hypocrites. FS - you just look like hypocrites.

Note: For the avoidance of doubt, I do not speak for ED, I have not spoken to anyone in ED about this, and I pretty much couldn't give a **** about basically all of you. But I repeat you're pretty much all acting like children. Except for Tedurur. That is all.

Kudos to me for being reasonable, but Im also acting like a child? Well there goes my incentive to ever be reasonable again, and ITS ALL UR FAULT.

[Korp]

Because I am not a forum whore like you and was only notified what was being discussed here a few hours ago so thought I should come in to make comment? Or because I'm naive to think my honest and straight up diplo wasn't going to be met in good faith and my words would not be taken out of context?

What I'm saying is clear above. The group doesn't interfere in hostile and never said it would. We discussed the cost of cf ED put on the table and each had their own conclusions. I had my own, and it coincided with that one particular BB council member, but not flogger or protector since they weren't actively chatting at the time I was active talking in the group.

My conclusion is its power play and I acted as such based on my conclusions.

You twice the amount of post and 4 years less time who's the forum whore? ...

Just admit you saw a chance of cheap acres and since your kd is useless this was the only means to get the acres.

[Korp]

Gak laid a smackdown on poor Parth :(

[Gakundra]

Kudos to me for being reasonable, but Im also acting like a child? Well there goes my incentive to ever be reasonable again, and ITS ALL UR FAULT.

I'm pretty sure I said you were "stubborn as ****" and that it was "difficult for you to act reasonably"

You'd only fall into the acting like a child category in the catch all "you're pretty much all acting like children" quote. And let's be honest, generalisations aren't ever really good for anyone. To be honest I think you came off pretty well in my summary.

[Helluva]

3 waves is just ridiculous for a cf and parth admitted that part and that was offered due to grudge. When grudges are in play and our alliance mates are subjected to bully play its a whole different ball game than a regular hostile.

wow really? Who decides when it is a 'grudge'? Parth? So it has to be self declared? I find it very troubling that when 2 kingdoms are fighting a one on one (after one kingdom had a farmwar to buff) a third kingdom can come in, deem it "grudge" (if only because self declared?) and then interfere?

Did you read the three or four posts in the old thread where I said (paraphrase) 'notice to utopia: we are active hostile with FS until we have an AGREEMENT'.

No one finishes a hostile with simply an in game CF.

[Over]

Nobody said we'll fk around our alliance members hostiles.

Nesta, as a ghetto i am curious. So is there an alliance or not? I see different posts about it.

[Zauper]

wow really? Who decides when it is a 'grudge'? Parth? So it has to be self declared? I find it very troubling that when 2 kingdoms are fighting a one on one (after one kingdom had a farmwar to buff) a third kingdom can come in, deem it "grudge" (if only because self declared?) and then interfere?

Did you read the three or four posts in the old thread where I said (paraphrase) 'notice to utopia: we are active hostile with FS until we have an AGREEMENT'.

No one finishes a hostile with simply an in game CF.

Grudge makes it easier to swallow extra demands for CF, not harder IMO :p

Nesta -- why do you feel like you had a "duty to help FS?" Why don't you feel like context is important to conflict and resolution? Why does it matter if some random BB council member feels that it's over the top? Why would you bother showing that as justification? I'm not in ED and don't think it was over the top, does that mean it's counter justification? Of course, it is interesting that this wasn't at all related to the alliance according to you and yet flogger and I are the two who negotiated the CF, your CF demands included FS getting a CF, FS resumed hitting after you started hitting (hi2u that's a double, however you slice it). And BB is giving up stuff in the CF agreement. All of this 'feels' like it was authorized by the alliance. And somehow, the crux of this revolved around Francis' claim that he offered a CF for wave last age -- which could never be proven. Yet no one from your side bothered to check into it, let alone talk to parth before doubling him. Beyond that, FS could have just accepted the offer made (publicly and ingame) prior to your wave, and then you wouldn't have been doubling. Why didn't they?

Your posts don't do much to dissuade that, because you say 'oh, the alliance didn't agree to do it' and then go into detail about how you did it for the alliance.

Do you feel a similar duty to help other kds? If so, why didn't you help ED with FS last age?

[13nesta13]

Im still having issues with your definition of out of context. You discussed the ED vs FS thing in your alliance group thing, you got support from the other members of the group....and when people post evidence of this on the forums as to whats behind this 2vs1 wave, its out of context? I think its perfect context?

The context was, you chatted me up. I made it known to group and fs privately that you're talking to me, that I needed a fast answer because I had only 30 minutes. I need a full confirmation on what happened and what was left on the table by you.

You told me your version and I said no, that's not what I'm hearing, and I showed you what I was told. That's the context. It wasn't to tell you BB presented this so please wave ED.

You taking my attempt to show you what I was told about the cf offer you left on table as an encouragement to wave you is putting things out of context no?

[Helluva]

Grudge makes it easier to swallow extra demands for CF, not harder IMO :p

just rollin' with their logic, boss! If you're right - and I think you are - then that shifts even more burden of responsibility/wrong doing onto Pyro.

[Parth]

So when someone uses you saying "A neutral third party who is council in BB says this" and in the screenshot seen saying "Thats why I suggested it", its out of context claiming BB had a hand in this, cause the context is in fact me chatting you up and you being in a hurry with the dip cause you were flying somewhere.

[Shai]

Per abs rules ed could've gotten waved like 5 times in the time between fs last retal and Nesta hitting.

Kinda funny abs changes when hostile is over whenever it suits them.

60h passed between FS last hit and when Nesta starting hitting? Yeeesh what is all the fuss about?

So I guess we will see BB advocate a gangbang on themselves then since one of their council members said its OK for Nesta to double hostile ED?

Or that is not as bad as an Emeriti council member pointing out that another kds best option to force a CF from a threat is to raze in Eowcf and force the cf?

[13nesta13]

Grudge makes it easier to swallow extra demands for CF, not harder IMO :p

Nesta -- why do you feel like you had a "duty to help FS?"

...

Do you feel a similar duty to help other kds? If so, why didn't you help ED with FS last age?

I feel the duty to help because we were the kd stuck in the awar and they helped? I also stated I have no clue what was going on last age, and treated things as a vacuum this age? Why are simple things hard to understand?

I'll clarify things one last time. Everyone has their own opinion on what constitutes a double hostile. Some think hostile goes on till both sides can agree to something. Some think an open CF offer sent from enemy KD after X hours, and no hits after X hours yet not accepted by KD means hostile is over. Some think the context is important, whether the kd being waved is offering enough reparations for the waving KD and whether the waving KD is just powerplaying. FWIW I myself might have thought my act was a double hostile had FS not been a significant help in the awar and they were powerplayed right out of the conclusion of the awar.

[jwuzi]

KK, so next age if KD A is losing 1 v 1, they can call in their alliance. Then if anyone in the alliance is losing a 1 v 1 later in the age they should get helped by KD A?

Just want to know the reasoning since it sounds like you guys are okay with this play

When an AWAR is over, it should be over. It doesn't mean gangbang kingdoms who stayed out of it just because they were smart and took advantage of the end of an AWAR?

[Korp]

I feel the duty to help because we were the kd stuck in the awar and they helped? I also stated I have no clue what was going on last age, and treated things as a vacuum this age? Why are simple things hard to understand?

I'll clarify things one last time. Everyone has their own opinion on what constitutes a double hostile. Some think hostile goes on till both sides can agree to something. Some think an open CF offer sent from enemy KD after X hours, and no hits after X hours yet not accepted by KD means hostile is over. Some think the context is important, whether the kd being waved is offering enough reparations for the waving KD and whether the waving KD is just powerplaying. FWIW I myself might have thought my act was a double hostile had FS not been a significant help in the awar and they were powerplayed right out of the conclusion of the awar.

Some see free acres from a kingdom that they would otherwise never be able to take anything from..

So, what you think is a double hostile or not is not at all related to ingame actions but how friendly you are currently with the kingdom that gets waved. Also "Powerplayed" I thought really cj was just a prick but it seems he was the brains of the operation Pyro cause when he left everything went down the drain. :/

60h passed between FS last hit and when Nesta starting hitting? Yeeesh what is all the fuss about?

So I guess we will see BB advocate a gangbang on themselves then since one of their council members said its OK for Nesta to double hostile ED?

Or that is not as bad as an Emeriti council member pointing out that another kds best option to force a CF from a threat is to raze in Eowcf and force the cf?

If you still fail to see how Emeriti involvement in this was bad in all aspects. "Pointing out" to a friend that razing a enemy is a good action is a political fiasco as seen by response. Also, in what world is the best option to raze? The potential raze is a much better threat than actually doing.

[Judge]

Some see free acres from a kingdom that they would otherwise never be able to take anything from..

So, what you think is a double hostile or not is not at all related to ingame actions but how friendly you are currently with the kingdom that gets waved. Also "Powerplayed" I thought really cj was just a prick but it seems he was the brains of the operation Pyro cause when he left everything went down the drain. :/




If you still fail to see how Emeriti involvement in this was bad in all aspects. "Pointing out" to a friend that razing a enemy is a good action is a political fiasco as seen by response. Also, in what world is the best option to raze? The potential raze is a much better threat than actually doing.

Wht Emeriti did was wrong in pointing out to someone. We accept it. What are your views on BB suggesting nesta to Double hostile ED and nesta going ahead and doing it?
You simply act like a shuttlecock in the badminton game! Here and there, here and there!

Keep trolling bro!